31-OCT-1997 22:36:44.00
From: IN%"StLMo@aol.com"
From: StLMo@aol.com
Subject: Unsold [3499]
---------------------------------------------------
Allan and other Unsold partners,
IF the race stays on the grass I feel that Unsold will redeem himself and
quite possibly get his first win as a VOPster. But, with the rain in the
forecast, I have a feeling this race won't remain on the turf. In that case,
I think we should just drop the horse to a rock bottom claiming N2L
(preferably at the 6 1/2 f distance). He just may get up for 5th or 4th and
someone may be fooled into claiming him. I don't think we're going to get
much more in a private sale. Also, if he doesn't get claimed and we keep
him, he then would become eligible for some of those allowance starter races
for horses that have started for a cheap price.
I sure hope the race stays on but... LET"S SCRATCH if it comes off and go
for the easiest spot possible.
Any thoughts, comments?
Steve Moses
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 18:48:47.17
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: An open letter to Unsold [3498]
---------------------------------------------------
Unsold,
You got one last chance to prove Terry and the rest of
partnership that you deserve to run in VOP colors somewhere following
your rest and Monday is your BIG chance......I know that your ankle is
bothering you and that your last race wasn't that good but your trainer
has been working with you to get a win out of you and I personally feel
you can do it ......so get on the track and give it your best......
sincerely,
Allan
(one of your biggest fans)
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 18:43:35.38
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: FG information for Itbaya [3451] [3477] [3478] [3480] [3497]
---------------------------------------------------
At 09:00 AM 10/31/97 -0600, Dale E. Herman wrote:
>I may vote to send Itbaya to FG cause I'm a sucker for "the action". And
>I can't think of anything better that the partnership will go for. And I
>really like Itbaya. But I won't expect a win. Most likely $2,000 X Nov,
>Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar + shipping expenses with a couple 3rds to show for it
>from four to five races.
On the plus side, there's somewhere close to $10k in Itbaya's account
right now, so the Nov., Dec., Jan., and probably Feb. cash calls are
already covered.
Incidentally - anyone negotiating a sale of their Itbaya shares should
probably remember to tack that horsemen's account money onto the agreed
upon sale price for the horse. After all, it's your money.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 18:38:57.72
From: IN%"milesm@slewpy.drf.com"
From: milesm@slewpy.drf.com
Subject: StableMail -- Unsold [3496]
---------------------------------------------------
This is a notice from the Daily Racing Form's online StableMail which
informs you when certain horses will be running in the near future. You
are receiving this message because Unsold is entered to run
in the 3rd race at Hawthorne Park on November 3, 1997. For more information
about the race, be sure to check out Daily Racing Form's web site
at http://www.drf.com/ or view the entries for this race at
http://www.drf.com/entries/03/HAW.html.
You also wrote the following notes about this horse:
Other Information About this Race
---------------------------------
Race Type:
Purse: $12,000
Claiming Price for Unsold (if applicable): 17,500
Surface: Turf
Distance: 1 Mile
Jockey: Campbell J M
Post Position: 6
# of horses in race: 12
--------------------------------
If you'd like to remove Unsold from your list of horses to watch,
go to the StableMail removal form at http://www.drf.com/stablemail/remove.html.
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 18:30:10.77
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Pappy's Arazi-like move!!!!!! [3482] [3492] [3495]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_EVvpjm3PwF0X9MVhWDVCpQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Ed/all,
First of all---Let me welcome you back to the list----hope
your vacation was restful........you are somewhat correct the horse that
ran the fastest last time out is not nessasarily the horse to
bet...........As Mr shipp
found out the hard way.........I am confident in saying we all "knew"
Pappy was going to win the race and beat the one (at least I did)...and
she had run slower in her last than the one.....she had more inate
talent than the one
that was plain to see.......with your almost daily reports on her
progress (BTW thanks a lot for the reports) one could see that Pappy was
not going to be a maiden for long....whereas the one shot her best load
in her last and couldn't get the job done.......we knew pappy hadn't
even come close to running her best race (and StILL hasn't).....she was
still good enough to bury this field.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_EVvpjm3PwF0X9MVhWDVCpQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:57:41 -0800
From: Ed Blachaniec
Subject: Re: Fwd: Pappy's Arazi-like move!!!!!! [3482] [3492]
To: Allan Weston
Cc: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: trifectawinner@sprintmail.com
Message-id: <345A8C95.7DFB@sprintmail.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SI300A01 (Win16; I)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
References: <199710312252.OAA09997@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
Been told many times that....time only means something if your sitting
in jail. ED B.
--Boundary_[ID_EVvpjm3PwF0X9MVhWDVCpQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 18:28:35.37
From: IN%"louisem@future.dsc.dalsys.com"
From: louisem@future.dsc.dalsys.com
Subject: Re: EMAIL WARNING [3405] [3494]
---------------------------------------------------
BBrandt wrote:
>
> The Tech guys at our home office have informed me there is a new email
> bomb on the loose. They say the heading is Join The Crew! He also
> reminded me of the Penal Greetings.. message which he claims is still
> out there.
>
> I don't know how it all works, but he took time to let me know so I will
> pass it on.
>
> Brian B
These are both hoaxes. Check out the following sites:
http://www.kumite.com/myths/
http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 17:55:18.62
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Pappy's Arazi-like move!!!!!! [3482] [3492]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_0MIB+k5xFEI4qkTGD9rHqA]
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Larry/all,
That was a very good middle quater (known to sprint
handicappers as turn time) ....and she tired from that effort (26+ last
quarter) still I bet it was visially impressive.....still these were you
garden variety maidens......Lets see what happen next out Vs
winners...she ran the worse 6f winning time of the of the day....she
have to improve to step up to the next level......
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_0MIB+k5xFEI4qkTGD9rHqA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:09:24, -0500
From: DWRE56A@prodigy.com ( LARRY M MARCUS)
Subject: Pappy's Arazi-like move!!!!!! [3482]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <199710311509.KAA19516@mime4.prodigy.com>
X-Mailer: Prodigy Internet GW(v0.9beta) - ae01dm04sc03
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Congratulations to all of Pappy's owners on her tremendous victory
(now I wish I hadn't sold my share in her - yeah, I know - coulda,
woulda, shoulda)!!!!
I stole down to Foxwoods to see her run - put her with four horses in
the first in $10 doubles, and put her over 4 horses in her race in
$20 exactas (and threw away $48 more for the superfecta - where the
hell did that 7 horse comes from??). First race went as planned, so
I was alive for the double. Now it was up to Pappy.
The only way I can describe Pappy's middle quarter was to say it was
Arazi-like - five wide on Hawthorne's hairpin turns - moving from
11th to 2nd - ON THE TURN!!! Joe's fractions bore out the
impressiveness of that move - a sub-24 middle quarter - five wide, on
the turn. Truly magnificent. No one would be kidding themself if
they had high aspirations for her in the future - with her breeding
wanting her to stretch out, it looks like she has the speed and
talent to go a long way! Congratulations to her owners - I know how
excited I am about her, so you all must be sky high.
Anyway - my consolation for selling my share was my cashing in on
both her double and exacta - Thanks, Pappy (and thanks to that 41-1
first time starter for getting up for 2nd)! Congrats to Liane and
Ray - looking forward to her next!!
Larry
--Boundary_[ID_0MIB+k5xFEI4qkTGD9rHqA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 16:44:57.97
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: BC pp's [3490]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
Anyone who wants the BC pp's in pdf format let me know and I'll email it.
BEWARE its a 1.1mg file. Its readable with adobe acrobat.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 14:14:02.07
From: IN%"pat.lyons@cbis.com" "Pat Lyons"
From: pat.lyons@cbis.com
Subject: Re: Pappy's Arazi-like move!!!!!! [3482] [3485] [3487] [3489]
---------------------------------------------------
Tom,
You know, I need to check my facts a little better before I throw these
posts out there. You were exactly right, Unbridled's Song broke his maiden
August 26th, 1995, and it wasn't at Belmont it was at Saratoga! Good
Grief. Sorry about that. I do remember the move he made on the turn though!
Sorry bout' the confusion.
Pat
>
>
> >The only way I can describe Pappy's middle quarter was to say it was
> >Arazi-like - five wide on Hawthorne's hairpin turns - moving from
> >11th to 2nd - ON THE TURN!!! Joe's fractions bore out the
> Not trying to drum up anything more than an observation, but when I saw
> Unbridled's Song break his maiden at Belmont last year, it was the same
> type of move on the turn going 6 furlongs. Could it be a trait of
> Unbridled's horses?
>
Hi Pat,
Interesting post. I've posted previously about the eerie resemblance
in the dosage numbers between Paparouna and Unbridled's Song, specifically:
PAPAROUNA 7-4-9-0-6 (26) DI = 1.48 CD = 0.23
U'S SONG 9-4-7-0-6 (26) DI = 1.74 CD = 0.38
I'm thrilled to hear their running styles are similar. Then again,
US made a similar move in the Derby last year on the 2nd turn that
didn't work out so well, if I recall. And that was *two* years ago
that US broke maiden, wasn't it?
Paparouna had better stay out of the Paparazzi. I want her to stay in
*front* of the cameras as long as possible! Can't wait for her first
win pic!!
Tom C.
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 13:20:10.14
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: Test - ignore [3488]
---------------------------------------------------
testing to determine if i'm out of e-mail prison
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 10:50:13.00
From: IN%"pat.lyons@cbis.com" "Pat Lyons"
From: pat.lyons@cbis.com
Subject: Re: Pappy's Arazi-like move!!!!!! [3482] [3486]
---------------------------------------------------
>The only way I can describe Pappy's middle quarter was to say it was
>Arazi-like - five wide on Hawthorne's hairpin turns - moving from
>11th to 2nd - ON THE TURN!!!
>
Not trying to drum up anything more than an observation, but when I saw
Unbridled's Song break his maiden at Belmont last year, it was the same
type of move on the turn going 6 furlongs. Could it be a trait of
Unbridled's horses?
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 10:37:12.68
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Paparouna [3484]
---------------------------------------------------
Larry Marcus wrote:
>The only way I can describe Pappy's middle quarter was to say it was
>Arazi-like
I hope this doesn't make Paparouna a member of the Paparazzi.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 10:20:58.84
From: IN%"DWRE56A@prodigy.com"
From: DWRE56A@prodigy.com
Subject: Itbaya at FG [3483]
---------------------------------------------------
I vote to send Itsy to the FG with Liane. Based on Cal's figures,
and her present state of mind, I think she has a good chance to do
well down there. (And I'd be an idiot to make the same mistake
twice!- I'll keep my shares in her :-))
Larry
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 10:14:11.01
From: IN%"DWRE56A@prodigy.com"
From: DWRE56A@prodigy.com
Subject: Pappy's Arazi-like move!!!!!! [3482]
---------------------------------------------------
Congratulations to all of Pappy's owners on her tremendous victory
(now I wish I hadn't sold my share in her - yeah, I know - coulda,
woulda, shoulda)!!!!
I stole down to Foxwoods to see her run - put her with four horses in
the first in $10 doubles, and put her over 4 horses in her race in
$20 exactas (and threw away $48 more for the superfecta - where the
hell did that 7 horse comes from??). First race went as planned, so
I was alive for the double. Now it was up to Pappy.
The only way I can describe Pappy's middle quarter was to say it was
Arazi-like - five wide on Hawthorne's hairpin turns - moving from
11th to 2nd - ON THE TURN!!! Joe's fractions bore out the
impressiveness of that move - a sub-24 middle quarter - five wide, on
the turn. Truly magnificent. No one would be kidding themself if
they had high aspirations for her in the future - with her breeding
wanting her to stretch out, it looks like she has the speed and
talent to go a long way! Congratulations to her owners - I know how
excited I am about her, so you all must be sky high.
Anyway - my consolation for selling my share was my cashing in on
both her double and exacta - Thanks, Pappy (and thanks to that 41-1
first time starter for getting up for 2nd)! Congrats to Liane and
Ray - looking forward to her next!!
Larry
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 10:05:04.51
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: FG information for Itbaya [3451] [3477] [3481]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 30, 11:48pm, Dale E. Herman wrote:
> Subject: Re: FG information for Itbaya [3451] [3477]
>
> On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Cal Jestice wrote:
>
> I'm not as optimistic. Here's a counter-argument for the sake of
> discussion.
>
> Itbaya was running just as well this time last year - two 2nds and a 3rd
> in 18K-20K races in her last three turf races in Illinois. From December
> through March 15 last year at FG she drew into only five races. The
> claiming races always filled with twelve horses and sometimes she didn't
> draw in. She only hit the board with a 3rd in one 25K race. One of those
> five races was taken off the turf and she finished 4th out of five horses
> in the slop.
OK, this year she has more wins than last year.
She'll also have two jockies that have ridden her in the
past so we won't have Randy Romero taking her 15 lengths
off the pace again or Kerwin trying to duel for the lead.
>
> She was 3rd by a head once on the turf there. In three other turf races
> she was beaten by 7, 5.5, and 14.25 lengths.
>
> Itbaya at FG turf: 4 - 0 - 0 - 1 (three 25K and one 30K)
And had she been 18 inches faster in one race, the
record would have been 4 -1-0-0 plus an extra $10K in earnings
which pays for the FG trip plus most of the year's training.
>
> Beyers - Schmeyers, that ain't good. I don't think Itbaya is any faster
> this year, nor do I see any reason to believe that Itbaya will get more
> than four turf races at FG.
I don't care if she's faster. I want her to be as
good as last year, not better. I think four races is reasonable.
As a matter of fact, I think we can make some money if Itbaya
gets three good shots at the 25K races.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 10:03:41.93
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: FG information for Itbaya [3451] [3477] [3478] [3480]
---------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Allan Weston wrote:
> Dale/all,
> Lets examine Itsy races for this year:
Allan,
That was a pretty good wrap up of Itbaya's last year. You could apply it
to the previous year. Or any other VOP horse. Or any other horse.
The racing secratary will always write races at the wrong level.
The racing secretary will always write races at the wrong distance.
The best jock for the horse will: - taken another ride.
- get hurt.
- do something stupid.
It will rain and races will come off the turf.
Your horse will get: - stuck in traffic.
- bumped at the start.
- any of a million equine health problems.
See ( I forget the author) the "Curse of Unsold" post from a couple months
ago for more examples. That's what I've learned in three years of
thoroughbred ownership. It's a tough game. To have a chance for a little
fun, a horse has to be put at a track where there are A LOT of races
written AT HER LEVEL. With a pure turfer like Itbaya, that's tough. FG
writes only a few filly and mare turf races, and they are a level too high
for Itbaya to win consistently.
I may vote to send Itbaya to FG cause I'm a sucker for "the action". And
I can't think of anything better that the partnership will go for. And I
really like Itbaya. But I won't expect a win. Most likely $2,000 X Nov,
Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar + shipping expenses with a couple 3rds to show for it
from four to five races.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 08:16:23.30
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: VOPster WWW tool kit [3479]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
I'm in the process of assembling a list of WWW resources that
VOPsters would find useful for VOP-related activities. You'll
find my current list attached below.
I'm inviting everyone to send me the URLs of their favorite
sites. I'll compile a new list and send it out. I'll also put
up a Web page eventually.
If you have something to contribute, just send me the title
and URL (and an optional brief description). It's probably
best to send those directly to me to avoid cluttering the list.
Also, I won't be including every single horse racing related
site, only the ones that a VOPster would find useful in his
or her capacity as a VOPster. (Example: we might all enjoy
the Blood Horse web site, but there's nothing specifically
VOPish about it.) True, some of my links are somewhat far
afield, but
----------
VOP Home Page
http://www.vop.org
BRIS Virtual Tote Board - monitor current odds from tracks
that are running right now. Also, get results from races as
they become official.
http://www.bristnet.com
- click on SuperTote RealTime Odds
Daily Racing Form Entries/Results - get entries and results
for every major track
http://www.drf.com:80/handicapping/handicapping.html
DRF Stablemail - sign up for email notification when a
particular horse runs.
http://www.drf.com/stablemail/index.html
Mining Company Horse Racing - a guide to the best racing
stuff on the 'Net, moderated by ex-VOPster Cindy Pierson
http://horseracing.miningco.com
Weather Forecasts - check the weather to predict track
conditions
http://www.weather.com
Weather forecast closest to Hawthorne/Sportsmans:
http://www.weather.com/weather/us/cities/IL_Chicago-Midway.html
Hawthorne Race Course Home Page
http://www.hawthorneracecourse.com
Sportsman's Park
http://www.sportsmanspark.com
Fair Grounds Race Track
http://www.fgno.com
Arlington International Race Course
http://www.arlington-intl.com
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 04:15:28.75
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: FG information for Itbaya [3451] [3477] [3478]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_gMNsYXY1Xw4B0tXmFVHU5w]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Dale/all,
Lets examine Itsy races for this year:
1. Jan ?fg ---5.5 25k claims---too short for Itsy she starts 11th or
12th and clunks up for 5th
beaten by a class turfer in Waterford Wench
2. Feb 1fg ---7.5 25k claims---just missed in a good off the pace effort
3. Feb 24fg --8.0dirt nw3---The stuck horse race
indescion by the FG racing dept and our trainer causes us to get stuck
raced tooth and nail against class horse time to time before BADLY
fading
4. Mar 15fg --8.0 25k claims---with Romero hurt we call on Clark....who
foolishly races her near the lead which causes a fade at the end
5. Jun 29ap --8.5 nw3-after an aborted 25k claims off the turfer where
she properly scratches she clunks up to 5th against two class turfers
Trudy did it and swing to the beat
6. Jul 6ap ---8.0 25k claims---wheeled back on 6 days rest Itsy has her
most disappionting race of the season as she clunks up to 5th after
being held back during the early running by young rider Campbell
7. Jul 28ap--8.0 nw3---foolishly raced up ner the lead causes a fade
against some good turfers
8. Aug 9ap--8.5 16k starters--clunked up to 4th and almost 3rd against
class turfer La tour Jete
9. Aug 25ap--8.5 25k claims--nice off the pace effort takes lead in
strech only to get passed by class turfer Dress Shoes
10. Sep 11ap--8.5 16k claims--Off the pace against Lone speed misses in
a photo for second
11. Oct 8ap--8.0 16k claims--off the pace win
12. oct 22haw--8.0 14k claims--encounters traffic problems on hard turf
course and clunks up for third
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_gMNsYXY1Xw4B0tXmFVHU5w]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:48:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dale E. Herman"
Subject: Re: FG information for Itbaya [3451] [3477]
In-reply-to:
To: Virtual Owners Partnership
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Cal Jestice wrote:
> After a few days of serious thought and research, my
> recommendation for Itbaya would be to continue racing her
> through 1998, starting at the Fair Grounds this winter. I looked
> up all filly turf races run last year and recorded the BSF's for
> the first three finishers, plus the purses. A table at the end of
> this post shows all the information.
>
> With Itbaya's average BSF of around 80, she would
> have hit the board in every 25K claimer at the Fair Grounds
> with the exception of one. That race was the one where Itbaya
> did run and lost the three way photo. Her best BSF this year
> would win each of the 25K claimers, a couple of the allowance
> and put her on the board in each filly FG turf race.
>
I'm not as optimistic. Here's a counter-argument for the sake of
discussion.
Itbaya was running just as well this time last year - two 2nds and a 3rd
in 18K-20K races in her last three turf races in Illinois. From December
through March 15 last year at FG she drew into only five races. The
claiming races always filled with twelve horses and sometimes she didn't
draw in. She only hit the board with a 3rd in one 25K race. One of those
five races was taken off the turf and she finished 4th out of five horses
in the slop.
She was 3rd by a head once on the turf there. In three other turf races
she was beaten by 7, 5.5, and 14.25 lengths.
Itbaya at FG turf: 4 - 0 - 0 - 1 (three 25K and one 30K)
Beyers - Schmeyers, that ain't good. I don't think Itbaya is any faster
this year, nor do I see any reason to believe that Itbaya will get more
than four turf races at FG.
> Itbaya is healthy and running well and I don't think
> that kind of horse should be weeded out of our stable.
I can't argue with that statement, but I think FG will likely be a waste
of time and money. Any other track for winter and spring requires a
trainer change, so I don't think that's going to happen.
I'm stuck in a Catch-22.
Itbaya is a cool horse. I'd love to keep racing her. But I don't relish
the thought of writing cash call checks for 9.35% of $2,000/month when the
only payback is probably a 3rd place finish close enough to put her in
someone else's win photo. That's not fun.
If we won't put her at a track where she can compete to WIN, with more
than one chance per month to race, maybe we SHOULD sell her to someone who
will. Or put her on the farm until summer. Or someone convince me that
Itbaya is faster this year. One win at 25K at FG with an $18,500 purse
would about pay for the trip.
Grumpy Ol' Dale H.
--Boundary_[ID_gMNsYXY1Xw4B0tXmFVHU5w]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
31-OCT-1997 00:51:21.65
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: FG information for Itbaya [3451] [3477]
---------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Cal Jestice wrote:
> After a few days of serious thought and research, my
> recommendation for Itbaya would be to continue racing her
> through 1998, starting at the Fair Grounds this winter. I looked
> up all filly turf races run last year and recorded the BSF's for
> the first three finishers, plus the purses. A table at the end of
> this post shows all the information.
>
> With Itbaya's average BSF of around 80, she would
> have hit the board in every 25K claimer at the Fair Grounds
> with the exception of one. That race was the one where Itbaya
> did run and lost the three way photo. Her best BSF this year
> would win each of the 25K claimers, a couple of the allowance
> and put her on the board in each filly FG turf race.
>
I'm not as optimistic. Here's a counter-argument for the sake of
discussion.
Itbaya was running just as well this time last year - two 2nds and a 3rd
in 18K-20K races in her last three turf races in Illinois. From December
through March 15 last year at FG she drew into only five races. The
claiming races always filled with twelve horses and sometimes she didn't
draw in. She only hit the board with a 3rd in one 25K race. One of those
five races was taken off the turf and she finished 4th out of five horses
in the slop.
She was 3rd by a head once on the turf there. In three other turf races
she was beaten by 7, 5.5, and 14.25 lengths.
Itbaya at FG turf: 4 - 0 - 0 - 1 (three 25K and one 30K)
Beyers - Schmeyers, that ain't good. I don't think Itbaya is any faster
this year, nor do I see any reason to believe that Itbaya will get more
than four turf races at FG.
> Itbaya is healthy and running well and I don't think
> that kind of horse should be weeded out of our stable.
I can't argue with that statement, but I think FG will likely be a waste
of time and money. Any other track for winter and spring requires a
trainer change, so I don't think that's going to happen.
I'm stuck in a Catch-22.
Itbaya is a cool horse. I'd love to keep racing her. But I don't relish
the thought of writing cash call checks for 9.35% of $2,000/month when the
only payback is probably a 3rd place finish close enough to put her in
someone else's win photo. That's not fun.
If we won't put her at a track where she can compete to WIN, with more
than one chance per month to race, maybe we SHOULD sell her to someone who
will. Or put her on the farm until summer. Or someone convince me that
Itbaya is faster this year. One win at 25K at FG with an $18,500 purse
would about pay for the trip.
Grumpy Ol' Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 22:20:38.89
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Paparouna milestone [3475] [3476]
---------------------------------------------------
Congrats on #20, TB and thanks for all the support. I'm getting win photo
#1, and counting.
Bob P. ;-)
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 22:13:04.18
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Paparouna milestone [3475]
---------------------------------------------------
Just as a FYI - Paparouna's win photo will be #20 in my win photo album!
Can't wait to pick it up on Saturday, and here's hoping for all you
Paparouna owners for whom it'll be the first, #20 will come for you
even faster than it did for me! And believe me, that photo will be
on the VOP page about 4:00 pm on Saturday!
Terry, still psyched about this one (the 2yo plan having been mine ;-) )
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 19:29:53.80
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com" "BobProc"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Re: WOW! [3448] [3454] [3471]
---------------------------------------------------
Joe,
Please put me down for a copy of the video ONLY! ;-). After mucking her
stall, Pancho can do whatever he usually does with the "produce". Anthony P.,
please please please get me one of her shoes to hang over her win photo.
Thanks much!
Still flying,
Bob P.
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 17:20:23.62
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Its in the barrel [3470]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
In another unrelated note:
phase 3 in the wine making process is over. Its in the barrel for aging.
It will be ready in 6 mo but I'll wait til VOPalooza 98. Its a red pappion 97.
It tastes good!
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 16:59:12.07
From: IN%"ChgNick@aol.com"
From: ChgNick@aol.com
Subject: Full results and comments from Pappy's race via Equibase [3469]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_8EgKjI30RCzozgrodNovKQ]
Content-id: <0_1432_878248032@emout06.mail.aol.com.21182>
Content-type: text/plain
I've attached the full results and comments from Pappy's race. You have to
read the comments to get an idea of just how well she ran yesterday.
Nick Urso
--Boundary_[ID_8EgKjI30RCzozgrodNovKQ]
Content-id: <0_1432_878248032@emout06.mail.aol.com.21183>
Content-type: text/plain; name="PAPPY1ST.TXT"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hawthorne Race Course - October 29th, 1997 - Race 2
=0D
Maiden Special Weight - For Thoroughbred Two Year Old Fillies Six Furlong=
s on the Dirt
Purse: $17,500 Reverts: $9,555
Includes/Plusses: $9,555 (Other sources) =
Value of Race: $17,500 1st $10,500, 2nd $3,500, 3rd $1,925, 4th $1,050, =
5th $525
Off at: 1:26 Start: Good for all but 2 =
Track: Fast Weather: Clear
=0D
Pgm Horse Name (Jockey) Wgt Med/Eq PP SP 1/4 1/=
2 Stretch Finish Odds
--- --------------------------------- --- ------ -- --- -------- ----=
---- -------- --------- --------
4 Paparouna (Sibille, R.) 120 L 4 10 10-3 6-1=
/2 3-Head 1-1 4.90 =
2 Penny for Thoughts (Laviolette, S 120 2 12 12 12 =
6-2 2-3/4 41.40 =
11 Alaskan Tuner (Emigh, C.) 120 L 11 6 8-1 4-1=
/2 4-1 3-Neck 11.50 =
7 Cajun Moon (Razo Jr, E.) 120 L 7 3 3-1/2 3-1=
2-1/2 4-3/4 9.80 =
9 Cyndi's Glitter (Silva, C.) 120 9 2 2-1 2-1=
1/2 1-Head 5-1 1/4 33.50 =
12 Royal Doris (Schaefer, G.A.) 120 b 12 11 11-4 11-2=
8-1/2 6-2 1/2 35.40 =
1 You Devil (Fires, E.) 120 L b 1 1 1-1 1/2 1-1=
/2 5-2 7-1 0.70*
8 Nothin'S E Z (Marquez, A.) 120 f 8 5 6-Head 8-2=
7-Head 8-Head 39.20 =
5 Chandi Rani (Lasala, J.) 120 5 8 7-Head 10-1=
1/2 9-5 9-13 1/2 41.70 =
6 Secret Goodbye (Meier, R.) 120 L b 6 4 4-Head 7-H=
ead 10-2 10-1 1/2 6.40 =
10 Born to Be Wild (Baird, E.T.) 120 L b 10 7 5-1 1/2 5-1=
/2 11-1 11-1 115.50 =
3 Muscles Malone (Sorrows Jr, A.) 120 L bf 3 9 9-1 9-1=
12 12 93.10 =
=0D
Winner : Paparouna - Bay Filly, 1995 =
Pedigree: Unbridled - Laurasia, by Pancho Villa
Breeder : Dion A. Recachina in KY =
=0D
Fractional Times: 22.30 46.51 59.68 1:13.31
=0D
Pgm Horse Name Win Place Show
--- ---------- --- ----- ----
#4 Paparouna 11.80 6.20 4.20 =
#2 Penny for Thoughts 29.60 14.20 =
#11 Alaskan Tuner 8.40 =
=0D
Wager Type Winning Numbers Payoff Pool Carry=
over
Daily Double 5-4 75.80 47,323.00
Exacta 4-2 306.40 71,920.00
Superfecta 4-2-11-7 10676.20 9,964.00
=0D
#4 Paparouna: steady advance, wore down rivals, driving, 5 wide
#2 Penny for Thoughts: off slowly, lugged in, wide early, closed with a=
rush, 6 wide
#11 Alaskan Tuner: quick move, drew even, stretch, between horses, weake=
ned
#7 Cajun Moon: never far back, drew even, stretch, between horses
#9 Cyndi's Glitter: never far back, late lead inside
#12 Royal Doris: void early speed, 8 wide stretch, no rally
#1 You Devil: set pace, faltered, inside
#8 Nothin'S E Z: evenly, no rally
#5 Chandi Rani: through early, failed to menace
#6 Secret Goodbye: brief foot, gave way
#10 Born to Be Wild: second flight backstretch, empty
#3 Muscles Malone: through early, outrun
=0D
Owners: 4--Virtual Owners Partnership (Cal Jestice, et al.); 2--Kenneth R=
=2E Keene; 11--Arthur I. Weiss; =
7--R. Zaloudek, A. Henderson & Emerald Ridge Farm (Christi; =
9--Orumila Farm Corporation (David & Aida Rodriguez; 12--David Ne=
iman; 1--Barry Shipp & Joseph Aramanda; =
8--Estate of Hoss Inman (Virginia Inman); 5--Kissoon Thoroughbred=
s, et al. (Deon Kissoon, Et Al.); =
6--Craigwood Stable (Robert & Brenda Craig); 10--John Leung & Jo=
hn Glasshof; =
3--Darwin Olson & Steve Kampa
=0D
Trainers: 4-Liane P. Davis, 2-Diane Chadwick, 11-Thomas F. Tomillo, 7-Chr=
istine K. Janks, 9-Moises R. Yanez, =
12-Scott S. Holas, 1-Gene A. Cilio, 8-Charlie Livesay, 5-Bernel=
l B. Rhone, 6-James R. McMullen, =
10-Joseph E. Kasperski Jr., 3-Jeanne P. Fedor=
--Boundary_[ID_8EgKjI30RCzozgrodNovKQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 13:48:09.92
From: IN%"ploopo@lamar.colostate.edu" "Paul Loopo"
From: ploopo@lamar.colostate.edu
Subject: RE: FG information for Itbaya [3467]
---------------------------------------------------
Hi Partners,
Although this is one of those very rare instances where I don't see eye-to-eye with
Terry, I say:
- Itsy seems to continue fit and ready to run
- Her current form should be competitive at FG
- Send her to FG --- PROVIDED THAT LIANE ACTUALLY GOES
I don't want out so I hope that the partners agree.
Sincerely,
Paul
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 13:19:40.22
From: IN%"Sally_Jestice-CSJ007@email.mot.com" "Sally Jestice-CSJ007"
From: Sally_Jestice-CSJ007@email.mot.com
Subject: Pappy win pictures [3466]
---------------------------------------------------
Paparouna owners -
Cal has ordered the winners circle pictures and will be picking them up on
Saturday. We'll get them ready to mail out first thing Monday. If any one is
going to pick up their picture at Hawthone before Saturday afternoon or
wants to pick it up later, please let Cal know. Also, if anyone ways an
extra (Cal always got one for home and one for work until the pile of
pictures at work got too big to manage) just let Cal know - he appreciates
any opportunity to tell me "but I _have_ to go to the track today" and leave
me home with Brian and the Barney tapes!
Sally
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 12:06:34.52
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: Pappy [3464] [3465]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 30, 11:50am, ChgNick@aol.com wrote:
> Subject: Pappy [3464]
> What a great feeling!! As this is my first partnership and first horse, to
> get a win on her second race, I could not ask for anything better. As
> everyone says, there's no feeling like watching your horse cross the finish
> line in front. Thanks to Cal for putting the partnership together and Liane
> and the gang for getting Pappy ready.
>
> On a side note, I haven't been to the stables at sportsmans yet. Can someone
> inform me on were the stabels are and what barn we are in?
Liane is stabled in barn B at Sportsmans. Park in
the lots across Laramie Ave. As soon as you go through the
gates and sign in, Liane's barn will be right in front of
you. She's in the NW corner of the barn.
Cal
>
>
> Way to go Pappy,
>
> Nick Urso
>-- End of excerpt from ChgNick@aol.com
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 11:53:33.81
From: IN%"ChgNick@aol.com"
From: ChgNick@aol.com
Subject: Pappy [3464]
---------------------------------------------------
What a great feeling!! As this is my first partnership and first horse, to
get a win on her second race, I could not ask for anything better. As
everyone says, there's no feeling like watching your horse cross the finish
line in front. Thanks to Cal for putting the partnership together and Liane
and the gang for getting Pappy ready.
On a side note, I haven't been to the stables at sportsmans yet. Can someone
inform me on were the stabels are and what barn we are in?
Way to go Pappy,
Nick Urso
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 11:34:39.84
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Paparouna Pictures [3463]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I'll be going to Hawthorne on Saturday to
pick up the Paparouna pictures. They should be
mailed out on Monday. If anyone wants to get their
copy at the track, let me know and I'll leave it.
If anyone wants an extra copy, please let
me know and I'll order them. Cost of the picture
is $17.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 10:20:29.12
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: RE: It's Over !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [3445] [3455] [3462]
---------------------------------------------------
Ca,,
I agree with Joe. At least one race this year assuming she fine out of this
race.
ap
At 08:03 AM 10/30/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Cal,
>Yes, Pappy has been in training for a long period of time and she will
>need a brief rest prior to her three year campaign. However, I hate to
>put her on the shelf when we still don't know how good a horse she is.
>Granted she is a two year old and a horse's two year old campaign is not
>necessary the true gauge of how a horse will compete in their later
>years, I still wouldn't mind seeing her race one more time before we
>give her a rest. It looked like she still had a lot left after the race
>(Liane will know better day) and it didn't look like she was going all
>out. A race with a clean break, against winners, could give us a decent
>idea of her level of competitiveness. If we raced her one more time in
>late November, we could rest her for five or six weeks, ship her to the
>Fairgrounds and get her in shape down there and she would be ready to
>run in early March. We would also have a gauge as to the level to run
>her at at the Fair Grounds. If she is a potential stakes horse, Liane
>will need to put a different plan together than if she a allowance or
>high claimer level horse.
>
>I hate seeing a fit horse put up when they are making progress,
>especially a young horse. But, it's always better to do it sooner than
>later.
>
>Again, I am not a trainer, just my opinion. I am very impressed with
>Pappy. By showing she can come from way off the pace she shows signs
>that she may have the flexibility to lead, rate or close. This is great
>because, barring a bad break, she should always be in the race, whether
>it's a fast pace, slow pace, coming out of the 1 or the 12 hole. If we
>can just get her out of the gate with a decent break, we will greatly
>improve her chances. Anyway, enough rambling. I'm sure Liane will have
>the ulimate decision, but I wanted to throw out my opinion.
>Joe P
>
>
>>Cal wrote:
>> There are no plans for Paparouna. Liane is going to
>>wait to see how she comes off the race, but we need to keep
>>in mind that she's been in training for almost a full year and
>>will need a break. I don't want to dampen anyone's hopes,
>>but don't be surprised if Liane wants to give Paparouan a
>>month or so off and come back at the Fair Grounds. Anyhow,
>>it's too early to tell so let's hope she comes off the race sound.
>>
>>Cal
>>
>>Footnotes:
>>
>>1. Via evolution, the default meeting place for VOPsters at
>>the track is the bar closest to the finish line. We don't stand
>>there, but will wander by looking for other partners. If you're
>>ever in for a race and we don't have a meeting place picked
>>out, you know where to wait.
>>
>>2. Once or twice a year, I feel confident about a race and bet
>>enthusiastically (still lower than Steve Lewis amounts). I've
>>been right most of the times and as the horse moves
>>out of the turn, I get a bit loud and arrogant. It involves my
>>moving from the grandstand to the winners circle telling
>>everyone nearby about the certainty of the finish of the race.
>>My wife is trying to break me of this habit.
>>
>>
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 10:19:39.81
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: BC Pick 6 [3461]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I've received a little over $1,000 so far
for the pick 6. On Saturday, I'm going to post a
list of all money received so far. I've you've sent
a check and don't see your name on the list, please
contact me. I'm estimating we'll collect around
$1,500.
For those wanting to get started on the BC,
the DRF's BC preview edition went on sale today. It
has a one page overview of each race, plus the PP's
of all potential starters in each race.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 10:17:29.06
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: FG information for Itbaya [3451] [3457] [3460]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 30, 8:44am, mikep@ameritech.net wrote:
> Subject: Re: FG information for Itbaya [3451] [3457]
> Cal,
>
> Can't shares in Itbaya be offered for sale per our own web page.
> (by those owners interested in selling)
> There are many new partners waiting and maybe other interest by existing
> partners.
>
Yes, that can be done. I was just making sure
the folks that wanted out before the end of the year had
an option to do so at an established price. They are
free to sell or keep their shares as they wish.
Cal
> ap
>
>
>
>
>
> At 12:16 PM 10/30/97 +0000, you wrote:
> >Y'all,
> >
> > After a few days of serious thought and research, my
> >recommendation for Itbaya would be to continue racing her
> >through 1998, starting at the Fair Grounds this winter. I looked
> >up all filly turf races run last year and recorded the BSF's for
> >the first three finishers, plus the purses. A table at the end of
> >this post shows all the information.
> >
> > With Itbaya's average BSF of around 80, she would
> >have hit the board in every 25K claimer at the Fair Grounds
> >with the exception of one. That race was the one where Itbaya
> >did run and lost the three way photo. Her best BSF this year
> >would win each of the 25K claimers, a couple of the allowance
> >and put her on the board in each filly FG turf race.
> >
> > Itbaya is healthy and running well and I don't think
> >that kind of horse should be weeded out of our stable. She's
> >proven she can handle the FG turf course and we'll have both
> >Randy Romero and Mark Guidry there to ride her. Itbaya has
> >only been in training for about six months, so she should be
> >good to go for another four or five more. She's at the top of
> >her game and the purses at the FG are very nice.
> >
> > I'd like to take a vote in the near future in this. So,
> >all Itbaya partners put some thought into this.
> >
> > I understand that some partners wish to end their
> >involvement with VOP after being in for over 2 years. I'm
> >exceptaionally grateful for their participation and will offer
> >to buy their shares. I'll set the price at $8,000. This was
> >the offer for Itbaya from Kate Mills last year and it was more
> >than she was appraised for as a brood mare and more than
> >we're likely to get now.
> >
> >Cal
> >
> >=================================
> >
> > Date Level Dist Win Place Show Purse Win Place
Show
> >11/28/96 AW 8.0 85 85 83 $28,000 $16,800 $5,600
> >$3,080
> >12/22/96 N3X 8.5 86 84 79 $25,000 $15,000 $5,000
> >$2,750
> > 1/18/97 25K 5.5 83 80 76 $18,400 $11,040 $3,680
> >$2,024
> > 2/1/97 25K 7.5 80 80 80 $20,300 $12,180 $4,060
> >$2,233
> > 2/1/97 25K 7.5 81 81 81 $20,300 $12,180 $4,060
> >$2,233
> > 2/3/97 N4X 8.0 91 81 77 $30,500 $18,300 $6,100
> >$3,355
> > 2/9/97 30K 8.0 84 83 80 $21,000 $12,600 $4,200
> >$2,310
> > 2/20/97 AW 5.5 92 88 78 $36,000 $21,600 $7,200
> >$3,960
> > 3/6/97 AW 5.5 87 85 83 $36,000 $21,600 $7,200
> >$3,960
> > 3/6/97 40K 7.5 92 88 85 $24,300 $14,580 $4,860
> >$2,673
> > 3/8/97 Stk150 9.0 102 84 83 $150,000 $90,000 $30,000
> >$16,500
> > 3/15/97 25K 8.0 84 76 76 $24,400 $14,640 $4,880
> >$2,684
> > 3/16/97 N3X 8.0 84 84 80 $34,000 $20,400 $6,800
> >$3,740
> > 3/17/97 AW 8.5 84 83 79 $36,000 $21,600 $7,200
> >$3,960
> > 3/22/97 25K 5.5 83 81 77 $26,400 $15,840 $5,280
> >$2,904
> >
> >
>-- End of excerpt from mikep@ameritech.net
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 10:16:52.02
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: RE: WOW! [3448] [3454] [3459]
---------------------------------------------------
At 07:39 AM 10/30/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Bob,
>Maybe Pancho, after he shovels out Pappy's stall, he can send you a bag
>of...,ah.., NEVERMIND. Congrats to all Pappy's partners, especially the
>newbees.
Don't knock it. It's excellent fertilizer.
If you want I can try to tell pancho to save her shoes.
ap
>Joe P
>
>>----------
>>From: BobProc@aol.com[SMTP:BobProc@aol.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, October 30, 1997 5:10 AM
>>To: virtual-owners@vop.org
>>Subject: WOW! [3448]
>>
>>Partners,
>>
>>When I joined VOP in April, both Terry B. and Joe P. welcomed me by saying
>>"you won't believe the feeling when your horse wins". Well, what I"m
feeling
>>today was wonderful... I'm still on a high that no chemical could ever
>>produce, and i really CAN'T believe it. Thank you Cal, Liane, Herschell,
>>Pancho, Paparouna, and partners! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!! Send me the photo,
>>the video, one of her shoes and whatever else you got to make this last! And
>>let's do this again sometime!
>>
>> Ecstatic,
>> Bob P. 8-)
>>
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 09:49:55.05
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: FG information for Itbaya [3451] [3457]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal,
Can't shares in Itbaya be offered for sale per our own web page.
(by those owners interested in selling)
There are many new partners waiting and maybe other interest by existing
partners.
ap
At 12:16 PM 10/30/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Y'all,
>
> After a few days of serious thought and research, my
>recommendation for Itbaya would be to continue racing her
>through 1998, starting at the Fair Grounds this winter. I looked
>up all filly turf races run last year and recorded the BSF's for
>the first three finishers, plus the purses. A table at the end of
>this post shows all the information.
>
> With Itbaya's average BSF of around 80, she would
>have hit the board in every 25K claimer at the Fair Grounds
>with the exception of one. That race was the one where Itbaya
>did run and lost the three way photo. Her best BSF this year
>would win each of the 25K claimers, a couple of the allowance
>and put her on the board in each filly FG turf race.
>
> Itbaya is healthy and running well and I don't think
>that kind of horse should be weeded out of our stable. She's
>proven she can handle the FG turf course and we'll have both
>Randy Romero and Mark Guidry there to ride her. Itbaya has
>only been in training for about six months, so she should be
>good to go for another four or five more. She's at the top of
>her game and the purses at the FG are very nice.
>
> I'd like to take a vote in the near future in this. So,
>all Itbaya partners put some thought into this.
>
> I understand that some partners wish to end their
>involvement with VOP after being in for over 2 years. I'm
>exceptaionally grateful for their participation and will offer
>to buy their shares. I'll set the price at $8,000. This was
>the offer for Itbaya from Kate Mills last year and it was more
>than she was appraised for as a brood mare and more than
>we're likely to get now.
>
>Cal
>
>=================================
>
> Date Level Dist Win Place Show Purse Win Place Show
>11/28/96 AW 8.0 85 85 83 $28,000 $16,800 $5,600
>$3,080
>12/22/96 N3X 8.5 86 84 79 $25,000 $15,000 $5,000
>$2,750
> 1/18/97 25K 5.5 83 80 76 $18,400 $11,040 $3,680
>$2,024
> 2/1/97 25K 7.5 80 80 80 $20,300 $12,180 $4,060
>$2,233
> 2/1/97 25K 7.5 81 81 81 $20,300 $12,180 $4,060
>$2,233
> 2/3/97 N4X 8.0 91 81 77 $30,500 $18,300 $6,100
>$3,355
> 2/9/97 30K 8.0 84 83 80 $21,000 $12,600 $4,200
>$2,310
> 2/20/97 AW 5.5 92 88 78 $36,000 $21,600 $7,200
>$3,960
> 3/6/97 AW 5.5 87 85 83 $36,000 $21,600 $7,200
>$3,960
> 3/6/97 40K 7.5 92 88 85 $24,300 $14,580 $4,860
>$2,673
> 3/8/97 Stk150 9.0 102 84 83 $150,000 $90,000 $30,000
>$16,500
> 3/15/97 25K 8.0 84 76 76 $24,400 $14,640 $4,880
>$2,684
> 3/16/97 N3X 8.0 84 84 80 $34,000 $20,400 $6,800
>$3,740
> 3/17/97 AW 8.5 84 83 79 $36,000 $21,600 $7,200
>$3,960
> 3/22/97 25K 5.5 83 81 77 $26,400 $15,840 $5,280
>$2,904
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 09:40:52.95
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Fractions for Pappys [3456]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I computed some rough fractions for Pappy during her race. They are as
follows:
23.70 1/4 (10th, 7 lengths back, 22.30 fraction)
47.11 1/2 (6th, 3 lengths back, 46.51 fraction)
59.88 Stretch (3rd, head (computed as a length), 59.68 fraction)
1:13.31 finish (1st)
She did the final 2 furlongs in 26.2. I'll be relying on Al, or one of
your other handicappers, to figure her speed rating.
Cheers!
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 08:47:18.28
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: FG information for Itbaya [3451] [3453]
---------------------------------------------------
>my
>recommendation for Itbaya would be to continue racing her
>through 1998, starting at the Fair Grounds this winter.
It seems like a win or place finish or a pair of show
finishes would pay for the trip to FG, and Cal has pro-
vided evidence that Itsy can pull this off. So it sounds
like racing, at least through the FG meet, is a good
idea.
That goes through the end of March. At that point, a
month or two off would be in order, and by the time
she was back in training and ready to race, the turf
course at Hawthorne should be open.
Not a bad plan. Of course, if she stinks up the joint
at FG, we can abort the rest of the plan and sell her,
either in New Orleans or back in Chicago.
===============================================================
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
===============================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 08:01:04.86
From: IN%"StLMo@aol.com"
From: StLMo@aol.com
Subject: Pappy's Win [3452]
---------------------------------------------------
CONGRATULATIONS Pappy partners!!
Stopped in at the ole OTB parlor to put a few bob on Pappy's nose. I thought
almost 5-1 was a generous price considering she was the second choice. Could
not believe the public bet the favorite down to even money.
Anyway, Pappy didn't have the greatest start. She broke a little hesitantly,
probably because the three horse veered at the start. Fortuntately, she did
not bother Pappy too much. Pappy raced in 10th position for awhile and then
made a bold move on the far turn. She was in contention at the top of the
stretch but still in mid-pack and VERY wide. Ray gave her a couple of cracks
of the whip and she continued to close slowly. Finally, three quarters of
the way down the stretch she took command. I think Ray smacked her one more
time just to keep her mind on business and then he just showed her the whip.
I didn't feel she was all out at the wire. I thought it was an impressive
win.
Again, congrats to the Pappy team.
Steve Moses
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 07:22:23.18
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: FG information for Itbaya [3451]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
After a few days of serious thought and research, my
recommendation for Itbaya would be to continue racing her
through 1998, starting at the Fair Grounds this winter. I looked
up all filly turf races run last year and recorded the BSF's for
the first three finishers, plus the purses. A table at the end of
this post shows all the information.
With Itbaya's average BSF of around 80, she would
have hit the board in every 25K claimer at the Fair Grounds
with the exception of one. That race was the one where Itbaya
did run and lost the three way photo. Her best BSF this year
would win each of the 25K claimers, a couple of the allowance
and put her on the board in each filly FG turf race.
Itbaya is healthy and running well and I don't think
that kind of horse should be weeded out of our stable. She's
proven she can handle the FG turf course and we'll have both
Randy Romero and Mark Guidry there to ride her. Itbaya has
only been in training for about six months, so she should be
good to go for another four or five more. She's at the top of
her game and the purses at the FG are very nice.
I'd like to take a vote in the near future in this. So,
all Itbaya partners put some thought into this.
I understand that some partners wish to end their
involvement with VOP after being in for over 2 years. I'm
exceptaionally grateful for their participation and will offer
to buy their shares. I'll set the price at $8,000. This was
the offer for Itbaya from Kate Mills last year and it was more
than she was appraised for as a brood mare and more than
we're likely to get now.
Cal
=================================
Date Level Dist Win Place Show Purse Win Place Show
11/28/96 AW 8.0 85 85 83 $28,000 $16,800 $5,600
$3,080
12/22/96 N3X 8.5 86 84 79 $25,000 $15,000 $5,000
$2,750
1/18/97 25K 5.5 83 80 76 $18,400 $11,040 $3,680
$2,024
2/1/97 25K 7.5 80 80 80 $20,300 $12,180 $4,060
$2,233
2/1/97 25K 7.5 81 81 81 $20,300 $12,180 $4,060
$2,233
2/3/97 N4X 8.0 91 81 77 $30,500 $18,300 $6,100
$3,355
2/9/97 30K 8.0 84 83 80 $21,000 $12,600 $4,200
$2,310
2/20/97 AW 5.5 92 88 78 $36,000 $21,600 $7,200
$3,960
3/6/97 AW 5.5 87 85 83 $36,000 $21,600 $7,200
$3,960
3/6/97 40K 7.5 92 88 85 $24,300 $14,580 $4,860
$2,673
3/8/97 Stk150 9.0 102 84 83 $150,000 $90,000 $30,000
$16,500
3/15/97 25K 8.0 84 76 76 $24,400 $14,640 $4,880
$2,684
3/16/97 N3X 8.0 84 84 80 $34,000 $20,400 $6,800
$3,740
3/17/97 AW 8.5 84 83 79 $36,000 $21,600 $7,200
$3,960
3/22/97 25K 5.5 83 81 77 $26,400 $15,840 $5,280
$2,904
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 06:59:45.38
From: IN%"HORSEA2@aol.com"
From: HORSEA2@aol.com
Subject: Paparouna's win [3450]
---------------------------------------------------
Hey Everybody,
Well aol has been experiencing e-mail problems so I haven't been able to get
through until this morning. Wow, Like Jame Brown Use to Sing: "I feel Good ,
Like I Knew that I would". This is so wonderful. Thank's to Liane and her
Staff. I have dreamed about this since I was old enough to know what a horse
race was and this win is everything I thought it would be and more.
Paparouna YOU GO GIRl!!!!!!!!!!
Karen
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 06:59:29.47
From: IN%"HORSEA2@aol.com"
From: HORSEA2@aol.com
Subject: Paparouna's win [3449]
---------------------------------------------------
Hey Everybody,
Well aol has been experiencing e-mail problems so I haven't been able to get
through until this morning. Wow, Like Jame Brown Use to Sing: "I feel Good ,
Like I Knew that I would". This is so wonderful. Thank's to Liane and her
Staff. I have dreamed about this since I was old enough to know what a horse
race was and this win is everything I thought it would be and more.
Paparouna YOU GO GIRl!!!!!!!!!!
Karen
VOP MAIL PAGE
30-OCT-1997 06:14:06.60
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: WOW! [3448]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
When I joined VOP in April, both Terry B. and Joe P. welcomed me by saying
"you won't believe the feeling when your horse wins". Well, what I"m feeling
today was wonderful... I'm still on a high that no chemical could ever
produce, and i really CAN'T believe it. Thank you Cal, Liane, Herschell,
Pancho, Paparouna, and partners! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!! Send me the photo,
the video, one of her shoes and whatever else you got to make this last! And
let's do this again sometime!
Ecstatic,
Bob P. 8-)
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 22:58:12.74
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: THANK YOU [3446] [3447]
---------------------------------------------------
At 09:49 PM 10/29/97 -0800, Ed Blachaniec wrote:
>steps to clean them out etc. Anyhow it was a wonderful day and
>experience. I am not ashame to admit I had tears in my eyes for
>experiencing an event that can not be explained to a non-horse howner.
>Congratulations partners. We have a lot to be proud of. VERY HAPPY
>TRAILS .....ED B.
Ed B. was quite a sight today. I've never seen such a happy camper.
Congrats to Ed and all the other first timers in on Paparouna.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 22:02:37.26
From: IN%"trifectawinner@sprintmail.com"
From: trifectawinner@sprintmail.com
Subject: THANK YOU [3446]
---------------------------------------------------
Michelle and I just recently returned from spending a month in Florida.
What a homecoming. We want to thank Liane, Hershell, Cal, Pancho and the
rest of the grooms and hotwalkers. Spending many mornings at AP this
summer I witnessed first hand the time, effort and hard work that is
takes to get the horses to the starting gate. An experience not easy to
forget. We watched the race today from the 3rd floor. I was reporting
the race to Michelle thru my binoculars and she was trying to relate the
happenings to her daughter on the cell phone. At the end of the race, I
don't know who was screaming louder me or her. By the time we got down
to the winners circle Paparouna was entering the area. She was coated
with mud but looked like a Million Dollars to all of us. Has drinks at
the bar afterwards (thanks Steve) and smiles could have been felt from
coast to coast. Michelle and I sat with Barry Shipp (owner of the #1
horse) and I have to tell you that he was extremely confident that his
filly was a run away winner. We went down the elevator together to
saddle the horses and wished each other good luck. Earlier his trainer
and my friend Gene Cilio came up to me and mentioned the Unbridled is
standing for $60,000 + and he was probably wondering how in the hell I'm
involved in such a high priced sire. Anyhow we went back to the barn
after the last race. Hershell was still there along with Pancho. I
noticed immediately that our Paparouna's eyes looked puffy or almost
closing and she naturally was tired. Poncho informed me that she a lot
of dirt etc. kicked into her face and eyes and he took the necessary
steps to clean them out etc. Anyhow it was a wonderful day and
experience. I am not ashame to admit I had tears in my eyes for
experiencing an event that can not be explained to a non-horse howner.
Congratulations partners. We have a lot to be proud of. VERY HAPPY
TRAILS .....ED B.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 21:46:35.24
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: It's Over !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [3445]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
It was an absolutely gorgeous day for racing
in Chicago with clear skies and the temperature in the
mid 50's. I was able to get out of work early enough
to get to the track 30 minutes before the first post.
Walking through the track, I met up with Terry
Bjork, Anthony Palermo and Steve Lewis. We quickly
handicapped the second race and agreed that we all
liked Paparouna's chances. The first round of beverages
were bought and we sat down to handicap the daily double.
I liked the 3,5&7 in the first race and used them vigorously,
but also bought out the first half to be safe.
While waiting for the first to go off, VOPsters,
Jeff Yelke, Bob Jungles, Nick Urso & Sean Callahan made
it in[1]. All agreed that Paparouna should do well in the second.
Watching the first race from our spot, I was rewarded to
see one of my prime DD candidates win the first. It was
looking good as another round was bought and I headed
down to the paddock for the second.
In the paddock, I found Ed Blachaniec schmoozing
the competition, but he did take time out to say hello 8^).
Paparouna came in looking calm and took a few laps around
the paddock while the other horses came in. Liane and I
talked a bit about the race. She was worried about the #1
horse. I had looked up her previous race and she quite on
an easy lead and was beaten by a 15K maiden claimer.
I was worried about some of the first time starters and used
them over Paparouna as a saver for my double. Ray came
out and was unusually quiet. I think he was feeling some
pressure after the trouble he got into in his last couple of
rides. Liane told Ray to just get the horse away from the
gate and get a clean trip. If Paparouna broke slowly, Ray
was to let her relax and make one move.
Paparouna headed out to the track and I went and
bet her under all the first time starters to back up my double.
Paparouna was very quiet and calm on the track. I was a
bit concerned, but I always prefer horses to be more docile
than aggitated. I headed up to our spot with about seven
minutes to post and Bob Jungles bought the next round.
Paparouna did not want to load into the gate. It
took several tries, but she finally went in. There were no
other bad behaviors and the race was off. Paparouna came
out a little slow, but settled nicely in 10th about eight lengths
off the lead. Heading towards the turn, Ray and Paparouna
were moving up nicely and they went wide. Paparouna made
a tremendous move five wide on the turn, passing eight horses.
About halfway through the turn, my alter-ego[2] decided that
a win was near and wanted to join the party. As Paparouna
moved into fourth, I turned to Steve Lewis and shouted, "it's
over!". Steve looked at me, blinked twice and went back to
watching the race. I gave Steve another, "it's over" and started
walking towards the winner's circle. Moving through the crowd
and telling anyone that I passed that, "it's over", I went out to
the apron and started gathering VOPsters. Ray kept a strong
handride on Paparouna down the stretch and she won by a
widening two lenghts.
Afterwards, a large crowd gathered in the winner's
circle and the photographer had to back up several steps
onto the track to get everyone in. Ray was very impressed
with Paparouna's effort and said he could have won by more
if he had used the whip. She wasn't graceful coming out of
the gate again and that probably has to do a lot with her
size. Ray said Paparouna had something left at the wire
and should do better going long. After the winner's circle,
Steve Lewis bought the next round after being wise enough
to use the first time starters under Paparouna also. Hugs
and handshakes were passed around at the bar and I gave
Liane a C-note for Pancho back at the barn.
Slowly partners begin to drift back to work and Ed
took everyone who wasn't wearing casual close up to the
turf club for another round. The rest of the day was kinda
blurry, but I cashed a few more bets and waited until I was
in some reasonable shape to drive home. I stopped by the
barn around 4:00 and Paparouna was back in her stall and
feeling happy. KLH was whinnying for attention and I stopped
by to talk a bit. His groom came by to fill KLH's water buckey
and Kristy pinned him against the wall and started licking him
on the neck and face. I've never seen a horse behave that way,
but the groom said KLH shows tremendous affection all the
time. Everyone else was getting ready for dinner at the barn,
so I made my way back to the car and headed home.
There are no plans for Paparouna. Liane is going to
wait to see how she comes off the race, but we need to keep
in mind that she's been in training for almost a full year and
will need a break. I don't want to dampen anyone's hopes,
but don't be surprised if Liane wants to give Paparouan a
month or so off and come back at the Fair Grounds. Anyhow,
it's too early to tell so let's hope she comes off the race sound.
Cal
Footnotes:
1. Via evolution, the default meeting place for VOPsters at
the track is the bar closest to the finish line. We don't stand
there, but will wander by looking for other partners. If you're
ever in for a race and we don't have a meeting place picked
out, you know where to wait.
2. Once or twice a year, I feel confident about a race and bet
enthusiastically (still lower than Steve Lewis amounts). I've
been right most of the times and as the horse moves
out of the turn, I get a bit loud and arrogant. It involves my
moving from the grandstand to the winners circle telling
everyone nearby about the certainty of the finish of the race.
My wife is trying to break me of this habit.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 19:44:28.98
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Pappy results [3443] [3444]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_4ouTOV/FiVLWXgtrEJkjxg]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Pat,
Welcome to VOP....pick up a chair, take off your shoes and stay a
spell........your among good company......
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_4ouTOV/FiVLWXgtrEJkjxg]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:20:54 -0500
From: Pat Lyons
Subject: Re: Pappy results [3443]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <8525653F.00801A4B.00@notes.cbis.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: CBIS@CBISINET
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
My sincere congrats to the Owner's of Pappy!
I am a new VOP'er, and was put on the VOP list about a week ago. So I have
been lurking here just trying to figure out how everything works
It was a little over a month ago I was monitoring, the September sale on
the Keeneland homepage and trying to figure out how I could get more
involved, and somehow I came across the VOP web sight. My favorite horse of
all-time is Unbridled. I've only gone to see the Derby once and I bet
Unbridled at 10-1, and it paid for my whole trip. When I saw Pappy, I just
had to join up! Glad that you let me in....Thanks.
Anyway, I broke away for a late lunch and went to the Oakbrook OTB. Saw the
race. It looked like a very bad start. But when I saw her picking up the
horses on the turn I new she was going to do it, Her class came to light.
Great win! Again, congrats!
--Boundary_[ID_4ouTOV/FiVLWXgtrEJkjxg]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 19:32:16.20
From: IN%"pat.lyons@cbis.com" "Pat Lyons"
From: pat.lyons@cbis.com
Subject: Re: Pappy results [3443]
---------------------------------------------------
My sincere congrats to the Owner's of Pappy!
I am a new VOP'er, and was put on the VOP list about a week ago. So I have
been lurking here just trying to figure out how everything works
It was a little over a month ago I was monitoring, the September sale on
the Keeneland homepage and trying to figure out how I could get more
involved, and somehow I came across the VOP web sight. My favorite horse of
all-time is Unbridled. I've only gone to see the Derby once and I bet
Unbridled at 10-1, and it paid for my whole trip. When I saw Pappy, I just
had to join up! Glad that you let me in....Thanks.
Anyway, I broke away for a late lunch and went to the Oakbrook OTB. Saw the
race. It looked like a very bad start. But when I saw her picking up the
horses on the turn I new she was going to do it, Her class came to light.
Great win! Again, congrats!
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 19:19:59.17
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Fwd: pappy [3411] [3440] [3442]
---------------------------------------------------
Sorry allen, I forgot to include your copywrite tag.
Its a long walk accross the street.
ap
>AP,
> KOD is under trademark protection....when you go to work
>tomorrow.....go to the FBI offoce and turn yourself in........
>
> AW
>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:24:50 -0600
>From: mikep@ameritech.net
>Subject: pappy [3411]
>X-Sender: mikep@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net
>To: virtual-owners@vop.org
>Message-id:
<3.0.2.32.19971029112450.006a5888@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net>
>MIME-version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32)
>Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
>
>V's,
>
>I'm glad not to be the favorite! its the KOD.
>
>a $20 double from the 3,4 and 7 to #4 is in order.
>
>ap
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 18:18:57.23
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: The pappy [3441]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
What a geat win for Liane, VOP, and Ray (as much as I am
on him.....he deserves credit......he did make any mistakes) and of
courses........drumroll..........the owners.........I am greatly
suprised by the price I figured to get 3 -1 or so......(steve you didn't
bet enough)....I missed the exacta but I had Pappy on top so thats
enough.........I was stuck at work so I didn't see the race.......Pappy
did what she had to do to win.........congrads to Elvis and Jeff for
correctly picking the margin of victory (Elvis) and the correct winning
time (Jeff) they both win
the pappy contest.......Where Karen's post I know you are out there
lurking......I am so excited when i saw that Pappy had won I could
almost spit........I had extreme confidence in Pappy.......now onward to
bigger and better......again congrads to the owners and Liane....2 VOP
winners in three weeks...now we are talking........
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 18:02:11.25
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: pappy [3411] [3440]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_6jNaM5yqu4v6SdftUzOGWQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
AP,
KOD is under trademark protection....when you go to work
tomorrow.....go to the FBI offoce and turn yourself in........
AW
--Boundary_[ID_6jNaM5yqu4v6SdftUzOGWQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:24:50 -0600
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: pappy [3411]
X-Sender: mikep@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <3.0.2.32.19971029112450.006a5888@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
V's,
I'm glad not to be the favorite! its the KOD.
a $20 double from the 3,4 and 7 to #4 is in order.
ap
--Boundary_[ID_6jNaM5yqu4v6SdftUzOGWQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 17:46:43.64
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: STUPID! [3421] [3437] [3439]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_nKLlEluMJ3DsV32vhEw7WQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
AP,
I guess they are not on the list to read my comments on the
one.....
AW
--Boundary_[ID_nKLlEluMJ3DsV32vhEw7WQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:17:51 -0600
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: STUPID! [3421] [3437]
X-Sender: mikep@mailhost.chi.ameritech.net
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <3.0.32.19971029161749.0068fd54@mailhost.chi.ameritech.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
I wrote down my 2 $10 exacta's 4-2 and 4-11.
Guess which one I played!!!!!!!!!!
Luckily I had a straight win bet.
The owners of the 1 horse were near the winners circle gate! sorry maybe
next time.
Congrats to EVERYONE!!!!!
Someone pick out a stakes race.
ap
At 02:37 PM 10/29/97 -0600, you wrote:
>VOP:
>
>I woke up this morning with great anticipation to see Pappy run. I went
>to work early, so I could get my work done and headed out the door at
>noon. It took me an hour to drive to Prairie Meadows and I could hardly
>sit still in the car. I walked up to the door to get in to PM and I
>reached in my back pocket to get my ID to get into the track. My heart
>sank when I reached back for my wallet, cause it wasn't there. I forgot
>my ID at home and there was no way they were going to let me in. To say
>the least I was very upset with myself. Boy am I dumb.
>
>Driving home I called phonebet and they told me the results. People on
>the freeway were probably wondering what the hell I was clapping for.
>Congrats to all Pappy owners.
>
>Is it too late to supplement her for the BC Juvenile? :)
>
>Eric Dawson
>
>
>PS. Will someone be making a tape of the race, cause I need one to show
> off to all my friends that are sick of me talking about Pappy. And
> if anyone has done anything dumber than what I did today please
> post, maybe it will make me feel better. :)
>
>
--Boundary_[ID_nKLlEluMJ3DsV32vhEw7WQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 17:45:30.25
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: allen where are you? [3438]
---------------------------------------------------
aw,
You were so excited before the race where are you?
there was a large turnout for the event.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 17:43:28.58
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: STUPID! [3421] [3437]
---------------------------------------------------
I wrote down my 2 $10 exacta's 4-2 and 4-11.
Guess which one I played!!!!!!!!!!
Luckily I had a straight win bet.
The owners of the 1 horse were near the winners circle gate! sorry maybe
next time.
Congrats to EVERYONE!!!!!
Someone pick out a stakes race.
ap
At 02:37 PM 10/29/97 -0600, you wrote:
>VOP:
>
>I woke up this morning with great anticipation to see Pappy run. I went
>to work early, so I could get my work done and headed out the door at
>noon. It took me an hour to drive to Prairie Meadows and I could hardly
>sit still in the car. I walked up to the door to get in to PM and I
>reached in my back pocket to get my ID to get into the track. My heart
>sank when I reached back for my wallet, cause it wasn't there. I forgot
>my ID at home and there was no way they were going to let me in. To say
>the least I was very upset with myself. Boy am I dumb.
>
>Driving home I called phonebet and they told me the results. People on
>the freeway were probably wondering what the hell I was clapping for.
>Congrats to all Pappy owners.
>
>Is it too late to supplement her for the BC Juvenile? :)
>
>Eric Dawson
>
>
>PS. Will someone be making a tape of the race, cause I need one to show
> off to all my friends that are sick of me talking about Pappy. And
> if anyone has done anything dumber than what I did today please
> post, maybe it will make me feel better. :)
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 17:02:50.08
From: IN%"RBDN74A@prodigy.com"
From: RBDN74A@prodigy.com
Subject: Pappy [3434]
---------------------------------------------------
Well done girl!!!!!!
This will make it easier to fill out the cash call for October. :)
Cal, pls pass congrats on to Liane.
Regards Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 16:50:47.39
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: Paparouna Zone [3433]
---------------------------------------------------
I take it the "Paparouna Zone" page will be having a little bit of an
update... :)
Viva Papa Rouna!
LC
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 16:42:37.79
From: IN%"RJVS65A@prodigy.com"
From: RJVS65A@prodigy.com
Subject: YEEESSSSSSS!!! WHEEEEEEEE! [3432]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
That was the best rush I've ever had and I was saving plenty of
emotion for the Indians winning the World Series. I made a complete
idiot of myself and the rummys at the track were not too pleased to
see me and Lori jump around like, well, like "we" won the race. It
was in a word, great!
She appeared to have a fair to poor break from the gate and
settled in about 6 lengths from the lead. At the far turn, it looked
like Ray got her a little outside and enough room to start gaining on
the field. She gained steadily and at the clubhouse turn, Ray looked
to be blocked from splitting any of the horses and the leaders were
already four wide. He took her around them, let here go and her
stride was long and beautiful. I thought I saw another gear from her
after she got an open lane coming out of the turn and was a champ
down the stretch.
Afterwards, she looked great trotting around the track. Before
the race, in the little I could see of her, she looked very calm.
The whole thing was a thing of beauty and she had a clean trip and
made the most of her opportunities.
Take my observations with a grain of salt because I was so
excited, I missed the fractions and the head-on replay. I, too, went
home with more in my pocket than I came with and the kids will be
treated with a Pizza Hut dinner. (I will leave the mints there...;>
)
Anyway, congrats to all and put me down for a copy of the video,
winners circle picture, commorative mugs, pennants, t-shirts, and any
other merchandise that comes out!
WHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Jim Fitz
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 16:34:14.57
From: IN%"Rich4544@concentric.net" "Richard R. Buettner"
From: Rich4544@concentric.net
Subject: Congratulations [3431]
---------------------------------------------------
CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL OF PAPPY'S OWNERS.....
Wish I could have been there...
Rich B.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 16:31:20.17
From: IN%"Rich4544@concentric.net" "Richard R. Buettner"
From: Rich4544@concentric.net
Subject: Re: Pappy results [3418] [3430]
---------------------------------------------------
CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL OF PAPPY'S OWNERS....
Wish I could have been there.....
Rich B.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 16:23:37.48
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Persistant Poppy Wins! [3428]
---------------------------------------------------
V's;
Just got back from the beautiful Mudbug OTB...what a run by our girl!
At the first call, the track anouncer had her at 10th, and then she really
took off. I'd like to see her start off a little faster... otherwise I'm
going to need CPR after every race. :^)
She was IMPRESSIVE; hope she comes off the race OK and it's on to bigger and
better things.
And she can have any kind of mint she wants!!
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 16:22:37.40
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: 2 more cents on "Poppacherry: A Maiden No More!" [3427]
---------------------------------------------------
Thanks to Steve for buying the round that counted: the one I stayed
for. I think it's reasonable to believe we have something here (the
horse, not someone buying a round).
By the way, the elvisware picked horse from the first race lost by a
nose in a photo, which deprived this corporation of 4 figures in
winnings.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 16:10:30.03
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: Re: Ray of Hope [3417] [3426]
---------------------------------------------------
> A large crown of VOPers welcomed her back to the Winner's Circle.
> I have to say that's the best thing I've seen on TV in a long time.
>
This is one to keep on video. Watching the confidence at which she
passed the 8 horses ahead of her and held the lead on that killer
stretch is something to watch over and over again. If they include the
Winner's Circle shot on TV it would make for something that video stores
could rent out.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 16:06:37.70
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: Re: Pappy Results [3416] [3425]
---------------------------------------------------
Drew wrote:
>
> DRF reports that Pappy won!!!
>
> Time 1:13'1
>
> 4 - PAPAROUNA 11.80 6.20 4.20
> 2 - PENNY FOR THOUGHTS 29.60 14.20 wow!
> 11- ALASKAN TUNER 8.40
>
The wow! translates to a $306 exacta, which is why a substantial amount
of people are right now making our highways more dangerous in one of
Hawthorne's more elegant watering holes.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 15:39:19.62
From: IN%"Sunwalker@warpnet.net" "Sunwalker Ostrich Ranch"
From: Sunwalker@warpnet.net
Subject: Paparouna Passemalla !! [3422]
---------------------------------------------------
All
Just got back from the OTB and seeing Pappy romp
home a winner. Looked like she broke well and settled
in about 5th, 2 or 3 paths off the rail. Ray started to
move in the turn and blew by everyone to win in the
clear.When Ray pulled her up to come back around,
she looked like she was ready to do it again.
Big crowd in the winner's circle. A few familiar faces,
a few unfamiliar, but all beaming with excitement!
Congrats to Liane, Cal, and all the Pappy People!!!
Reckon the Pic 6 pool just got a little bigger?
Ed Blair
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 15:38:12.49
From: IN%"ldawson@netins.net"
From: ldawson@netins.net
Subject: STUPID! [3421]
---------------------------------------------------
VOP:
I woke up this morning with great anticipation to see Pappy run. I went
to work early, so I could get my work done and headed out the door at
noon. It took me an hour to drive to Prairie Meadows and I could hardly
sit still in the car. I walked up to the door to get in to PM and I
reached in my back pocket to get my ID to get into the track. My heart
sank when I reached back for my wallet, cause it wasn't there. I forgot
my ID at home and there was no way they were going to let me in. To say
the least I was very upset with myself. Boy am I dumb.
Driving home I called phonebet and they told me the results. People on
the freeway were probably wondering what the hell I was clapping for.
Congrats to all Pappy owners.
Is it too late to supplement her for the BC Juvenile? :)
Eric Dawson
PS. Will someone be making a tape of the race, cause I need one to show
off to all my friends that are sick of me talking about Pappy. And
if anyone has done anything dumber than what I did today please
post, maybe it will make me feel better. :)
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 15:33:06.61
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! [3420]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
By now everyone knows pappy won. Thanks to Steve L. for the round.
A very profitable day for most!
Ray said that she moved on the leaders without him even asking her.
She mowed em down and shes not even a sprinter!
The rest is history.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 15:25:14.02
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: HOORAY! [3419]
---------------------------------------------------
YAY, Pappy!
I cannot believe it (well, yes I can!)--I was sitting at the barn
watching my horse get shod and thinking "Damn, I wish I was at the
track!" WHAT A GOOD FILLY! MY FIRST WIN AS A VOP'STER! (Only took 15
months!)
To quote Don Allana....GIMME THAT WIN PHOTO, BABY! And please put me
down for a copy of the video, if available. Yippeeee!
Did she come off OK and does she know what a good girl she is??
Lynn
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 14:56:50.83
From: IN%"LREN83A@prodigy.com"
From: LREN83A@prodigy.com
Subject: Pappy results [3418]
---------------------------------------------------
Pappy owners,
Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve Ostman
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 14:56:14.68
From: IN%"channic@kcco.com" "Tom Channic"
From: channic@kcco.com
Subject: Ray of Hope [3417]
---------------------------------------------------
Well, it looked like a replay of Paparouna's last race. She
came out of the gate well behind the field and looked like she
had nowhere to go. I counted her in 9th going into the turn.
But Ray, wise rider that he is, just stayed wide -- 6 or 7 wide
coming out of the turn -- and moved sharply up to the leaders.
Our girl just mowed 'em down in the stretch and handily held
off a late challenge from the 2 who made a strong but futile
move on Paparouna's outside that came up about a length and a half
short.
A large crown of VOPers welcomed her back to the Winner's Circle.
I have to say that's the best thing I've seen on TV in a long time.
Congrats to Liane and her staff, Ray and all the owners and may
the new streak continue!!
Tom C.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 14:47:22.78
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Pappy Results [3416]
---------------------------------------------------
DRF reports that Pappy won!!!
Time 1:13'1
4 - PAPAROUNA 11.80 6.20 4.20
2 - PENNY FOR THOUGHTS 29.60 14.20 wow!
11- ALASKAN TUNER 8.40
Way to go, Pappy!
===============================================================
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
===============================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 14:44:47.59
From: IN%"channic@kcco.com" "Tom Channic"
From: channic@kcco.com
Subject: VICTORY!! [3415]
---------------------------------------------------
Paparouna wins paying $11.80 6.20 4.20 in 1:13.1.
More to follow...
Tom C.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 12:54:21.09
From: IN%"kgrace@injersey.com" "Ken Grace"
From: kgrace@injersey.com
Subject: Re: Unsold, KLH, LL [3372] [3388] [3390] [3413]
---------------------------------------------------
> The tax strategy looks like a good idea. Maybe I could charge the loss against
> stock market gains!;-)
>
> We can deduct the loss if the particular horse is sold or claimed?? can we?
>
> ap
Yes, once a particular horse partnership is closed out you can deduct
any passive losses, including those you might have carried forward from
previous years. The K-1 you receive for the last year will have a
notation that it is a "final K-1".
Ken
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 12:35:09.92
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: For what it's worth [3412]
---------------------------------------------------
The Daily Herald has PP third based on effort in last race.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 12:30:21.96
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: pappy [3411]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
I'm glad not to be the favorite! its the KOD.
a $20 double from the 3,4 and 7 to #4 is in order.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 11:31:45.61
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: Chicago Tribune Picks (and other datums) [3407] [3408] [3409]
---------------------------------------------------
>>Winning post positions yesterday were 5-4-4-10-9-7-4-6-4.
>>Terry, is it possible to have back to back 4 days?
>>(Yes, all the #4 posts were #4 saddlecloths, too.
>
>I haven't tested this theory b4. It could happen, I guess. I sure
>hope so!
From a less numerological perspective, one might draw a different
conclusion from these data. Out of nine races, six were won by
horses in the 4/5/6 post positions. The remaining three winners
were from the outside post positions. No horses starting from the
inner three post positions won!
Perhaps the track is faster in the middle or, as they say, the
rail is dead. Alas, we're in the second race, so we won't have
much time to see if this pattern is holding up today. Moreover,
Ray has no mount in the first, so he won't be able to find out
for himself how the rail is playing. Perhaps Herschell noticed
something during the morning works?
You might mention the possibility of a dead rail to Ray. A 6f
race is only around one turn, so we won't be losing much ground
by staying 2 or 3 wide.
Furthermore, a dead rail bodes ill for the favorite, YOU DEVIL,
who is starting from one hole.
In double-checking, it seems that the 6th race was won by the #1
horse, not the #7.
For yesterday's 9 races:
# horses PP 1-3 that won: 1
# horses PP 1-3 that finished 2nd: 1
# horses PP 1-3 that finished 3rd: 2
Seems like horses in the inner post positions aren't doing well
at all!
PP 4 had 4 wins and a second for the day. Wow!
===============================================================
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
===============================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 11:07:28.46
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Chicago Tribune Picks (and other datums) [3407] [3408]
---------------------------------------------------
At 09:51 AM 10/29/97 -0600, Tom Channic wrote:
>Winning post positions yesterday were 5-4-4-10-9-7-4-6-4.
>Terry, is it possible to have back to back 4 days?
>(Yes, all the #4 posts were #4 saddlecloths, too.
I haven't tested this theory b4. It could happen, I guess. I sure
hope so!
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 10:55:23.98
From: IN%"channic@kcco.com" "Tom Channic"
From: channic@kcco.com
Subject: Chicago Tribune Picks (and other datums) [3407]
---------------------------------------------------
Looks like the Trib handicappers didn't read the DRF picks.
Only Neil Milbert has our girl in the money (2nd).
Dave Surico puts her 7th at expected odds of 8-1 with the portentous
although arguably inaccurate comment "Threat on drop". Did she
run in a stakes race we don't know about? YOU DEVIL is Surico's
best bet of the day, and the Tribune Consensus best bet as well.
It's a cool but pleasant morning here in the not-too-windy city.
Should hit 50+F by post time (4hrs 5min, but who's counting).
All in all a great day for starting another winning streak.
Insufficient data for me to handicap this bunch. Hopefully, YD
will get most of the backing, and P will be a solid underlay
with a great shot on a big effort. Track was fast, but times
were slow yesterday. No horse with a lead at 4 furlongs won a
race yesterday.
Winning post positions yesterday were 5-4-4-10-9-7-4-6-4.
Terry, is it possible to have back to back 4 days?
(Yes, all the #4 posts were #4 saddlecloths, too. They paid:
$7.80, $9.60, $3.40, and $11.20 for a 77.77% return on investment,
not to mention the 220% return on the eight 4-4 doubles!!)
Viva la quattro! Viva la Paparouna!!
Tom C.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 10:28:37.46
From: IN%"bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET" "BBrandt"
From: bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET
Subject: EMAIL WARNING [3405]
---------------------------------------------------
The Tech guys at our home office have informed me there is a new email
bomb on the loose. They say the heading is Join The Crew! He also
reminded me of the Penal Greetings.. message which he claims is still
out there.
I don't know how it all works, but he took time to let me know so I will
pass it on.
Brian B
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 10:16:09.86
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: Nat's Effort [3347] [3348] [3349] [3374] [3404]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 27, 9:59pm, Falstafguy@aol.com wrote:
> Subject: Re: Nat's Effort [3347] [3348] [3349] [3374]
> In a message dated 97-10-25 23:36:33 EDT, mikep@ameritech.net writes:
>
> <<
> What is the day rate for training at Sam?
> What is the shipping cost?
> What is the average purse we would be running for? (where we could win)
> >>
> VOPers,
> I didn't ask anyone at Sam about day rates. Cal, have you spoken to Liane
> or anyone about those rates? Also I'm sure Cal could give us a ballpark
> figure on shipping.
She thought day rates would be about the same as
Fairmount Park ($30/day). Shipping will be expensive.
Since there's no realy Chicgo<->Texas racing circuit,
there won't be a regular scheduled van run. Going one
way, we'll probably be looking at $1,200/horse. It
will probably be cheaper to ship to the Fairgrounds
and get a shuttle to SH.
Cal
>
> Darrell B
>-- End of excerpt from Falstafguy@aol.com
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 10:11:50.99
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Tri Wagering? [3399] [3403]
---------------------------------------------------
Race 2 is a $2 exacta, $1 superfecta and $2 daily double
At 07:59 AM 10/29/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Y'all,
>Does naybody know if there will be trifecta wagering for the 2nd race at
>Hawthorne?
>Thanks
>Joe P
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 10:09:40.31
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: Unsold, KLH, LL [3372] [3402]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 27, 6:17pm, Terry Bjork wrote:
> Subject: Unsold, KLH, LL [3372]
>
> Cal -
>
> Could you refresh us on the nature of Unsold's problems? If he's sore
> in a front hoof and now getting sore in the back end, I can't see the
> point of trying to get another race out of him.
>
Unsold's problem is the calcification of his
ankles. The left is worse than the right. They are
sore when he runs and tries to relieve pressure from
them by having his back legs to more work than they
should and he gets sore behind. This problem is man-
agable for the short term, but it will not improve.
Arthritis is a one way street and all that can be done
is treat the symptoms.
Liane's recommendation is still to sell the
horse. He will not get better and will be difficult
to keep in shape because training causes discomfort.
She believes Unsold can get one more race this year
before needing a break.
She doesn't have a recommendation for a SH
trainer. The only person she knows that is competent
and has run in Texas is Sam David. However he's
based out of LA and will probably have his entire
operation at the Fair Grounds and will go back to
Lone Star over the summer.
> In re: KLH - does Liane think this problem is going to get worse? If
> so, why don't we just take him off the track now while he's reasonably
> sound and try to get some sort of decent price for him as a riding
> horse, rather than waiting till the problem is back to serious or
> the knee totally blown out?
Her explaination was that the problem was
an expected complication from the surgery. I will
talk to her about it more today.
>
> Finally re: LL - The girl who has Major, Jennifer, says LL looks
> like a hunter-jumper prospect. I'd be in favor of trying to find
> a buyer for LL, soon, rather than keeping on with the racing
> attempts till the end of the year. LL might finally break that
> N2L condition, but then after that what do we do?
I agree and Liane is shopping around for buyers.
However, if Jenifer has someone that's looking, let's
have her get in touch with Liane to look at Lady. If
she wants to make an offer, I'm sure the partners will
listen.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 09:39:07.81
From: IN%"HORSEA2@aol.com"
From: HORSEA2@aol.com
Subject: Paparouna race [3401]
---------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I can't be there today, so I will pour all my excitment and nerves into
making cheesecakes and horse shaped cookies for my office mates who are of
couse very, very happy that Paparouna is running today. And please no more
pizza hut mints, OK.
Karen
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 09:07:24.69
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Tri Wagering? [3399]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Does naybody know if there will be trifecta wagering for the 2nd race at
Hawthorne?
Thanks
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 08:13:45.80
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: Paparouna's romp [3394] [3398]
---------------------------------------------------
>Anyway, just a note to say that there is plenty of excitement here in
>Cleveland!
Ditto from this corner of C-land. Alas, I'm not sure I'll be able
to shake loose in the middle of the day for Pappy's race. :(
One good thing about Itsy is that she's usually in the 8th or 9th,
and I can cheese out early to get to the track.
Anyway, I'll be glued to the results pages and looking forward to
VOPsters posted accounts of the race!
Go Pappy!
===============================================================
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
===============================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 06:25:55.97
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: Sun-Times on PP race [3397]
---------------------------------------------------
Not as enthusiastic as DRF:
Feldman - You Devil (4-5!), Cyndi's Glitter, Alaskan Tuner, PP 4th (8-1)
(When I used to track elvisware results against the Sun-Times, Feldman's
shining point used to be maiden races)
Clocker - Paparouna, Cajun Moon, You Devil (Is this the same as Trackman
in DRF?)
Program - You Devil, Cajun Moon, Alaska Devil, PP about 5th
Krish - You Devil, Secret Goodbye, Alaskan Tuner
Consensus - You Devil (consensus pick of the day), Cajun Moon, PP
In the first race, the clocker likes my favorite, Malory Elizabeth, to
start my daily double.
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 06:11:19.94
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Paparouna's romp [3394] [3396]
---------------------------------------------------
At 12:00 AM 10/29/97 -0500, MR JIM S FITZWATER wrote:
>All you local partners give her a carrot (as she does not like
>peppermints much, at least not the ones I lifted from Pizza Hut) and
>a cheer for me.
Eeeeeewwwwwww! No wonder she was off for so long - Pizza Hut peppermints!
Jim F. is to blame.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
29-OCT-1997 00:04:08.31
From: IN%"RJVS65A@prodigy.com"
From: RJVS65A@prodigy.com
Subject: Paparouna's romp [3394]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
Unfortunately, I will not be able to make it to Chicago for our
girl's race. However, I will be at Thistledown who is carrying
Hawthorne and yelling my fool head off. Of course, I will do my part
to skew the odds ;>
I hope she has a good trip. It's been so long since her first race
and with this one at a different track, I'm afraid that any lessons
she learned have been forgotten. I'm treating this pretty much as
her first race. I only know of one timed work in five and a half
weeks and that was an easy 5 furlongs. I'm betting (literally) that
her inate talent will get the job done.
All you local partners give her a carrot (as she does not like
peppermints much, at least not the ones I lifted from Pizza Hut) and
a cheer for me.
Anyway, just a note to say that there is plenty of excitement here in
Cleveland!
Go Paparouna!
Jim Fitz
____
*************************************************
Jim Fitzwater RJVS65A@prodigy.com
Death to the Florida Marlins!
VOP MAIL PAGE
28-OCT-1997 23:28:16.35
From: IN%"bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET" "BBrandt"
From: bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET
Subject: Re: DRF's view of PP's race [3392] [3393]
---------------------------------------------------
Good luck to PAPAROUNA and all her lucky owners!!!!
I hope tommorow will be a day we will all remember, sorry I won't make
the trip to see it in person. I will be watching.
Brian B
elvis@mcs.com wrote:
> This, and similar support from the Chicago papers will kiss that sweet
>
> 10-1 goodbye:
>
> Analyst - Paparouna, You Devil, Alaskan Tuner
> Trackman (Dwane Hatch) - Paparouna, Cajun Moo, You Devil
> Hermis (Richard Pyle) - You Devil, Secret Goodbye, Chandi Rani
> Sweep (Tom Joyce) - You Devil, Paparouna, Secret Goodbye
> Consensus - You Devil (13), Paparouna (12!), Secret Goodbye (3)
>
> This household will be wagering a DD, 1st race Malory Elizabeth, 2nd
> PP
> and You Devil. Also wagers on PP based on how the odds hold up.
VOP MAIL PAGE
28-OCT-1997 22:16:51.31
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: DRF's view of PP's race [3392]
---------------------------------------------------
This, and similar support from the Chicago papers will kiss that sweet
10-1 goodbye:
Analyst - Paparouna, You Devil, Alaskan Tuner
Trackman (Dwane Hatch) - Paparouna, Cajun Moo, You Devil
Hermis (Richard Pyle) - You Devil, Secret Goodbye, Chandi Rani
Sweep (Tom Joyce) - You Devil, Paparouna, Secret Goodbye
Consensus - You Devil (13), Paparouna (12!), Secret Goodbye (3)
This household will be wagering a DD, 1st race Malory Elizabeth, 2nd PP
and You Devil. Also wagers on PP based on how the odds hold up.
VOP MAIL PAGE
28-OCT-1997 21:39:08.45
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Unsold, KLH, LL [3372] [3388] [3390]
---------------------------------------------------
The tax strategy looks like a good idea. Maybe I could charge the loss against
stock market gains!;-)
We can deduct the loss if the particular horse is sold or claimed?? can we?
ap
At 06:29 PM 10/28/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Terry,
>
>I couldn't agree with you more, and in the case of LL, I thought we
>were looking for a buyer but were continuing to keep her in training
>and racing until sold.
>
>Steve Ostman
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
28-OCT-1997 20:42:33.23
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: The post update [3389]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
My correction was not posted in the archive, so I am assuming to didn;t
get out. My selections were in error. I had the 2 on top, it should
have been Pappy the 4, not the 2 (tuff day at work). Again I had it
4-1-6-11 or 1-4-6-11. Sorry about the error. Peace. love and Black
Light posters!
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
28-OCT-1997 18:32:24.10
From: IN%"LREN83A@prodigy.com"
From: LREN83A@prodigy.com
Subject: Unsold, KLH, LL [3372] [3388]
---------------------------------------------------
Terry,
I couldn't agree with you more, and in the case of LL, I thought we
were looking for a buyer but were continuing to keep her in training
and racing until sold.
Steve Ostman
VOP MAIL PAGE
28-OCT-1997 18:29:29.18
From: IN%"LREN83A@prodigy.com"
From: LREN83A@prodigy.com
Subject: Internet Message [3387]
---------------------------------------------------
ap,
Not to worry, I saw Ed (happy trails) at the barn on Sunday. Ed was
all nicely tanned from his Florida vacation, but was having trouble
posting to the list. He also said he came home to 700 letters in his
in box. I'm sure he will make it to Hawthorne tomorrow.
Steve Ostman
VOP MAIL PAGE
28-OCT-1997 18:25:30.21
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: the return of pappy [3386]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
I don't see much about Pappy's today...noboby's exciited
about her second race cept' Joe......Well make that two.....tomorrow's
the day for graduation folks as she catches a rather ordinary field of
maidens...but of course I am ahead of myself. Here for your perusal are
the old weston KOD picks for the 2nd at HAW tomorrow........
1. You Devil---has the best fig but that last quarter this horse was
laboring (26).......had EVERYTHING go her way and STILL lost....1st time
everything last out.....unless she improves that last quarter she be a
maiden for quite a long time.........
2.Penny For Thoughts--cost 5.5k last Aug and has non descript
works.......toss
3. Muscles Malone--One of Don Allana favs name unfortunetly, this horse
is mighty slow in the final quater and trainer is OH for 97...toss-toy
5. Chandi Rani--cost 28k back in Nov 95....but showed absolutly nothing
first out on the turf...and has slow works to boot......tossiba
6.secret goodbye--another first dirter.....had nice blow on Sunday for
this..there are some things to like....first time VITAmin L
7. Cajun Moon--Another firster ......not much history behind trainer as
this is his first horse this year.......I'll watch this time....toss
8. Nothin's E Z.....the named rider tells me this one is out for exerise
tomorrow...has come in with some bombers for this trainer but she'll
have to beat me....toss
9. Cyndi's Glitter-- two medicore works and MR silva.....noooo
noooo!------toss
10. Born to be wild--nneds a renaming job to Born to be slow......gotta
give the trainer credit has tried EVERY trick in the book to get this
one to run.........with NO results........tossico
11. Alaska Tuner---Don't be fooled bt this one her races have all come
for a tag and is moving up in class off a bad race...when she
bled....that and the outside leave this one as a ........toss
12. Royal Doris----clunked up to 4th behind you devil the last
out...same trip in store for this one
4. PAPAROUNA--Sibille back up on My fav...her initial outing was not bad
considering all things a slight improvement brings this one to the
winners circle mach schnell...
Probable finish---4-1-6 and the rest farrrrrrr back.......Pappy stalks
the one and passes her and goes on to an easy win......you heard it here
first Pappy Lovers
Allan
ps---I still have the entries for the contest so it still
goes.......LOTS of good Belmont stuff....Incliding a 20th anniverany
secrertiarait
mug...plus other suprises
VOP MAIL PAGE
28-OCT-1997 16:52:46.37
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: correction (price) trackmaster pp's [3385]
---------------------------------------------------
v's,
The pdf files are $1.00 for the entire race card (no single races)
The .50 sale was for csw format (comma delimited file).
sorry for the confusion
ap
Has anyone seen Ed (happy trails) his horse is in tomorrow. He might like
to know.
VOP MAIL PAGE
28-OCT-1997 16:43:00.12
From: IN%"channic@kcco.com" "Tom Channic"
From: channic@kcco.com
Subject: Re: Pappy's Race [3380] [3382] [3384]
---------------------------------------------------
test [no humor content whatsoever]
A duck walks into a department store and says, "I'd like your finest
lip gloss, please."
"Here you are," says the salesperson. "Will that be cash or charge?"
The duck replies, "Just put it on my BILL."
[no humor content whatsoever (I warned you.)]
VOP MAIL PAGE
28-OCT-1997 16:39:16.85
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: trackmaster pp's [3383]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
Trackmaster pp at has a sale of .50 for full race card
downloads, I think the regular price is $1.00...compare to the drf.
in pdf format. You need adobe acrobat reader 3.0 (which is a free download
everywhere including trackmasters site).
These programs have the last 12 pp's and 12 workouts with much more detailed
information than the drf.
If someone wants to see an example I still have Nat's on disk, I can email it
as an attachment. Note; you will still need adobe acrobat to view/print it.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
28-OCT-1997 10:25:51.03
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Pappy's Race [3380]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Just got a chance to look at Pappy's competition.
It looks like her main competition will come from the #1, You Devil.
She is the only true "Early Speed" horse in the race. Given her post,
and her high speed rating of 78, she will be on the front end on this
race. She did get nipped at the wire in her last, so if pappy is rated
well, she could catch her at the wire. You Devil is also on second time
Lasix.
A first time starter, #8 Nothing's Easy, comes into the race with a
bullet work, but her trainer has a 3% winning percent for first time
MdnSpWt starters. She will get some betting action, but may not be
there at the end. She may try for the lead, but the outside positions
at Hawthorne have been dead (8 out), which puts her in a bad position.
Alaskan Turner #11 has three seconds in four starts, but has slow speed
figure compared to the rest and is breaking from a real bad post.
There are a few horses that make the move from the turf to the dirt (#5
Chandi Rani and #6 Secret Goodbye). Both trainers have decent win
percentages in the turf to dirt switch (15% and 10% respectively) so
they could surprise.
If Pappy can get a clean break, and can stay with the #1, she could pull
it off.
I call it 2-1-6-11, with the definite possibility of 1-2-6-11.
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 23:17:13.01
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: elvisware on paparouna [3377]
---------------------------------------------------
Not really a good situation for number crunching. Two year olds are not
recommended on this software. Plus there are 5 first starters, and most
of them are probably making their debut on a new track. Technically,
this is for a dry track, but based on the weather lately, who knows what
the track will be like in 40 hours. So there is no official
recommendation of any kind from the software. (It really loves Malory
Elizabeth in the first though, so those of you who have to bet, myself
included, may factor this in the DD).
The numbers:
Fitness - Royal Doris 10, PP 1
Ability - Alaskan Tune 10, PP 9!
Class - Secret Goodbye 10, PP 8! (2nd)
Speed - You Devil 10, PP 4
Recency - Chandi Rani and Nothin's E Z 10, PP 4
Overall - Chandi Rani and Nothin's E Z 13%@7-1, PP 8th 8%, 12-1
When the top horses get 13%, and the 9th horse gets 7%, you basically
throw the above numbers away. We know this horse will win if a decent
amount of factors come through, but realistically, it's a toss up. So
it comes down to price. With all the unknowns, I'd like to see at least
8-1 before putting any decent money on her.
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 22:14:07.26
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/27/97 [3359] [3376]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-27 10:38:46 EST, jestice@pcs.mot.com writes:
<< KLH is getting a little stiffness in one knee. It's
due to some of the scar tissue in the joint. It isn't causing
him discomfort, but it did push his work back until this week. >>
Cal / All,
I'm starting to get pretty concerned with KLH's prospect of competitve
racing again. The first notes when he came back to the track sounded hopeful
but now we have "filling" in the knee and now stiffness due to scar tissue.
He has been back in training for awhile now. Perhaps now is the time for us
to hear Liane's candid assessment of KLH's future.
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 22:05:15.67
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/27/97 [3359] [3375]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-27 10:38:46 EST, jestice@pcs.mot.com writes:
<< . I also think it's a little too early to
make a call on whether or not Nat can handle the dirt. We
know she can't duel for six furlongs and hang on to win, but
she did break her maiden coming from a little off the pace.
We'll get a few more chances to see what she can do coming
from off the pace on the dirt. >>
Cal / All,
It may be too early to throw in the towel on Nat on the dirt but outside
of her win against a weak field with no closers to contend with she has died
most every time. In Nat's defense I will say that IMO she has been in over
her head in 4 of the 9 races she has run for us. IF she could rate like Itsy
does she might fare a bit better.
If we are looking at dirt for Nat's next few tries then we need to get her
down to the 5-8k level n2L. Let's put her in where she belongs and see what
she does. If we decide to ship Nat to Sam or wherever and turf is available
then I would keep looking for turf races that fit her.
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 22:02:40.29
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Re: Nat's Effort [3347] [3348] [3349] [3374]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-25 23:36:33 EDT, mikep@ameritech.net writes:
<<
What is the day rate for training at Sam?
What is the shipping cost?
What is the average purse we would be running for? (where we could win)
>>
VOPers,
I didn't ask anyone at Sam about day rates. Cal, have you spoken to Liane
or anyone about those rates? Also I'm sure Cal could give us a ballpark
figure on shipping.
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 19:29:44.03
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Chicago Weather/pappy [3373]
---------------------------------------------------
Joe, all
Pappy is in wednesday, 2nd race. Tom forwarded the stablemail to the list I
think.
ap
At 10:20 AM 10/27/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Y'all,
>Weather Channel shows clear through Thursday. Let's hope Pappy gets in.
>Joe P
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 19:20:29.79
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Unsold, KLH, LL [3372]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal -
Could you refresh us on the nature of Unsold's problems? If he's sore
in a front hoof and now getting sore in the back end, I can't see the
point of trying to get another race out of him.
In re: KLH - does Liane think this problem is going to get worse? If
so, why don't we just take him off the track now while he's reasonably
sound and try to get some sort of decent price for him as a riding
horse, rather than waiting till the problem is back to serious or
the knee totally blown out?
Finally re: LL - The girl who has Major, Jennifer, says LL looks
like a hunter-jumper prospect. I'd be in favor of trying to find
a buyer for LL, soon, rather than keeping on with the racing
attempts till the end of the year. LL might finally break that
N2L condition, but then after that what do we do?
The reason I'm bringing this up is that if we can manage to dispose
of these VOP assets before the end of the year, at least we'll get
the tax loss benefit of "disposal of assets" on the taxes we fill
out for next April. If we goof around until after the end of the
year, we have to wait until 1999.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 17:58:46.64
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: The Scoop: 10/27/97 [3359] [3371]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_n2BChSO1xsf7mCW25FYf0g]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Unsold partners,,
What is going to happen to Unsold when we do as Cal asks and
sell him?.......what is the person or persons gonna do who shell out
their hard earned bucks........This is what I would do if I bought
him..........I give him a few weeks off........cause I see he needs some
rest after a tough campanign.......After that I would see he was a turf
only horse.......and than I would ship him to race track with a turf
course and race him........Well if thats what the person is going to do
with him.....why don't we do that and ship him to Sam houston after his
rest and race him for those races that he can win....I know this sounds
simplistic.....but sometimes the best answer is that....IIts goona cost
us the partnership 7.5k to race him at sam houston until April that
means he gotta win one race to break even and 2 to show a
profit........otherwise he''ll show a loss
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_n2BChSO1xsf7mCW25FYf0g]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:37:11 -0600
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com (Cal Jestice)
Subject: The Scoop: 10/27/97 [3359]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <9710270937.ZM6427@lion51.pcs.mot.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Comments: ( Received on ftpbox.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com,
sender jestice@pcs.mot.com )
Y'all,
It's good to be back on line. There's a lot to
cover and I probably won't be able to do it all in one
post. Just the highlights here.
As of Saturday, I had $627 in hand for the PIC 6
pool. We should be well over $1,000 if everyone comes
through with their pledges. I'll post the list of all
money received at the end of this week. If you've sent
money and don't see your name on the list, please contact
me.
Lady Lomond is doing well and is in a holding
pattern waiting for an N2L race going 6f. Liane's trying
to hold off, but if it doesn't look like an extra will be
written soon, she may go for a 6.5f race. We'll probably
find out via stable mail if Liane finds an extra.
Liane may enter Paparouna today for the race on
Wednesday. She wanted to wait until the last minute to
get a gauge on the weather. She doesn't want Paparouna
going over a sloppy track because it will be harder on
her shin. If the weather in Chicago looks to be dry until
Wednesday, she'll enter. Watch for stable mail today.
KLH is getting a little stiffness in one knee. It's
due to some of the scar tissue in the joint. It isn't causing
him discomfort, but it did push his work back until this week.
He should have a short breeze on Wednesday or Thursday. I'll
let everyone know how it went as soon as I hear.
Dance Naturally came off her race in fine shape and
Liane is going to try to get one more race on the turf even
if it means bringing Nat back with only a week or so of rest.
I think everyone finally got all the details from Nat's race
on Friday. It was a terrible race, but a tremendous effort
from Nat. The half mile fractions in her race were faster
than 18K males and classified allowance males. I'm not sur-
prised she faded. I also think it's a little too early to
make a call on whether or not Nat can handle the dirt. We
know she can't duel for six furlongs and hang on to win, but
she did break her maiden coming from a little off the pace.
We'll get a few more chances to see what she can do coming
from off the pace on the dirt.
Itbaya is doing well and Liane is hoping to get one
more race on the turf here. We also talked about sending
her to Churchill for a 25K race on the turf. I'm pulling
up the results from last year's meet to see what the Beyers
are. More info on future plans for Itbaya in a separate
post.
Unsold is not doing well. He's still sore on his
ankle and he's getting lame in the back end by trying to
take pressure off the ankle. Liane is working with him and
thinks we can get one more race at Hawthorne if the weather
cooperates, but she stressed again that the long term prospects
for him do not look good and we should sell him. More on
Unsold's future plans in a separate post.
Cal
--Boundary_[ID_n2BChSO1xsf7mCW25FYf0g]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 17:38:25.70
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: RE: Don't call chris [3365] [3369] [3370]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_MC9mxd6KJt0D+VCWp09VIw]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Partners,
I got a name for our next 2 year old that needs to
named......
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_MC9mxd6KJt0D+VCWp09VIw]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:50:11 -0600
From: "Pacheco, Joe"
Subject: RE: Don't call chris [3365] [3369]
To: "'jestice@pcs.mot.com'"
Cc: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Y'all,
You may have gotten the message below. Please DONT CALL CHRIS!
Joe P
>----------
>From: jestice@pcs.mot.com[SMTP:jestice@pcs.mot.com]
>Sent: Monday, October 27, 1997 11:18 AM
>To: virtual-owners@vop.org
>Subject: call chris [3365]
>
>(708) 598-3799
>
--Boundary_[ID_MC9mxd6KJt0D+VCWp09VIw]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 16:08:53.50
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Chicago Weather [3368]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Weather Channel shows clear through Thursday. Let's hope Pappy gets in.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 15:31:20.84
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Paparouna entered [3366] [3367]
---------------------------------------------------
Tom, et al
Thanks for forwarding the stablemail. I went to their site and placed pappy
in my watch list. I also had to confirm my e-address with a confirmation
number they sent me. If anyone else has this problem, you may have to do
the same thing.
ap
At 01:42 PM 10/27/97 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Looks like this didn't make it to the list. -- Tom
>
>------- Begin Forwarded Message -------
>
>This is a notice from the Daily Racing Form's online StableMail which
>informs you when certain horses will be running in the near future. You
>are receiving this message because Paparouna is entered to run
>in the 2nd race at Hawthorne Race Course on October 29, 1997. For more
>information
>about the race, be sure to check out Daily Racing Form's web site
>at http://www.drf.com/ or view the entries for this race at
>http://www.drf.com/entries/29/HAW.html.
>
>You also wrote the following notes about this horse:
>
>Other Information About this Race
>---------------------------------
>Race Type: Maiden
>Purse: $17,500
>Claiming Price for Paparouna (if applicable):
>Surface: Dirt
>Distance: 6 Furlongs
>Jockey: Sibille R
>Post Position: 4
># of horses in race: 12
>--------------------------------
>If you'd like to remove Paparouna from your list of horses to watch,
>go to the StableMail removal form at
http://www.drf.com/stablemail/remove.html.
>
>
>
>------- End Forwarded Message -------
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 12:22:28.97
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: call chris [3365]
---------------------------------------------------
(708) 598-3799
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 11:11:48.58
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: works? [3360] [3361] [3362]
---------------------------------------------------
They do have the best web site. Free programs etc.
ap
At 10:04 AM 10/27/97 -0600, you wrote:
>
>I, too, would like to know if Paparouna has worked recently. Sure
>do miss the Fairgrounds where this data can be looked up on the
>web site.
>
>Tom C.
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 10:54:31.75
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: works? [3360]
---------------------------------------------------
AW,
Have you seen any works for pappy in the form?
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 10:40:57.70
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: The Scoop: 10/27/97 [3359]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
It's good to be back on line. There's a lot to
cover and I probably won't be able to do it all in one
post. Just the highlights here.
As of Saturday, I had $627 in hand for the PIC 6
pool. We should be well over $1,000 if everyone comes
through with their pledges. I'll post the list of all
money received at the end of this week. If you've sent
money and don't see your name on the list, please contact
me.
Lady Lomond is doing well and is in a holding
pattern waiting for an N2L race going 6f. Liane's trying
to hold off, but if it doesn't look like an extra will be
written soon, she may go for a 6.5f race. We'll probably
find out via stable mail if Liane finds an extra.
Liane may enter Paparouna today for the race on
Wednesday. She wanted to wait until the last minute to
get a gauge on the weather. She doesn't want Paparouna
going over a sloppy track because it will be harder on
her shin. If the weather in Chicago looks to be dry until
Wednesday, she'll enter. Watch for stable mail today.
KLH is getting a little stiffness in one knee. It's
due to some of the scar tissue in the joint. It isn't causing
him discomfort, but it did push his work back until this week.
He should have a short breeze on Wednesday or Thursday. I'll
let everyone know how it went as soon as I hear.
Dance Naturally came off her race in fine shape and
Liane is going to try to get one more race on the turf even
if it means bringing Nat back with only a week or so of rest.
I think everyone finally got all the details from Nat's race
on Friday. It was a terrible race, but a tremendous effort
from Nat. The half mile fractions in her race were faster
than 18K males and classified allowance males. I'm not sur-
prised she faded. I also think it's a little too early to
make a call on whether or not Nat can handle the dirt. We
know she can't duel for six furlongs and hang on to win, but
she did break her maiden coming from a little off the pace.
We'll get a few more chances to see what she can do coming
from off the pace on the dirt.
Itbaya is doing well and Liane is hoping to get one
more race on the turf here. We also talked about sending
her to Churchill for a 25K race on the turf. I'm pulling
up the results from last year's meet to see what the Beyers
are. More info on future plans for Itbaya in a separate
post.
Unsold is not doing well. He's still sore on his
ankle and he's getting lame in the back end by trying to
take pressure off the ankle. Liane is working with him and
thinks we can get one more race at Hawthorne if the weather
cooperates, but she stressed again that the long term prospects
for him do not look good and we should sell him. More on
Unsold's future plans in a separate post.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 07:45:45.64
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: October Cash Call [3358]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Here's the cash call for October. Please get your checks
to me by 11/10.
Thanks,
Cal
-------------------------------------------------
Name Itsy Unsold Lady KLH Nat Papa Late Total
Mark Alesia 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Cary Arbour 0 0 0 40 34 0 74
Al Avino 0 0 0 0 67 90 157
Charles Baker 0 0 0 0 0 54 27 81
Darrel Becker 0 0 0 100 42 36 178
Terry Bjork 0 0 67 40 34 63 203
Ed Blachaniec 0 0 0 0 0 90 90
Ed Blair 0 0 0 0 34 0 34
Bob Bowman 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Brian Brandt 0 0 0 40 0 0 40
Steve Brannon 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Sean Callahan 0 0 0 100 0 0 100
Joe Calvo 0 0 120 0 168 198 486
Tom Channic 0 0 0 40 0 36 76
Lynn Cronin 0 0 0 0 0 36 36
Terry Crozier 0 0 0 0 34 0 34
Len Czyzniejewski 0 0 40 60 0 45 145
Eric Dawson 0 0 0 0 0 36 36
Debbie Derlacki 0 0 0 60 0 36 96
Eugene Derlacki 0 0 0 0 0 45 45
Mark DeVine 0 0 67 40 0 0 107
Mike Fein 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jim Fitzwater 0 0 0 0 0 90 90
Ken Grace 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Greg Gulliver 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Dale Herman 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Bob Hillebrand 0 0 0 40 34 0 74
Drew Ivan 0 0 0 0 0 36 36
Chris Jenner 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Cal Jestice 0 0 107 40 0 36 183
Bob Jungles 0 0 27 0 0 36 63
Barbara Kalbfell 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Gary Laabs 0 0 27 40 0 0 67
Steve Lewis 0 0 67 300 168 180 715
Paul Loopo 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Larry Marcus 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
John Martynus 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Steve Moses 0 0 27 40 34 0 100
Steve Myrick 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Dan Neurock 0 0 0 100 0 0 100
Steve Ohnsman 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Steve Ostman 0 0 133 0 0 0 133
Joe Pacheco 0 0 27 40 42 108 217
Anthony Palermo 0 0 0 100 168 288 556
Bart Palmisano 0 0 0 60 0 36 96
Ken Paulsen 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Dave Polewka 0 0 133 0 0 0 133
Bob Procaccinni 0 0 0 0 0 144 144
Dale Ripley 0 0 0 0 42 0 42
Jen Roth 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Mike Sasso 0 0 27 0 0 0 27
Kent Saunders 0 0 0 0 34 0 34
Bob Schaefer 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Terry Schank 0 0 0 0 0 45 45
Brian Schartz 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Scott Siddall 0 0 0 0 0 36 36
Karen Simpson 0 0 0 0 0 36 36
Robert Steinberg 0 0 0 0 34 0 34
Nick Urso 0 0 0 0 0 36 36
Dave Verret 0 0 0 40 0 36 76
Chuck Wessel 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Allan Weston 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Mike White 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jeff Yelke 0 0 40 80 34 54 208
Karan Zaranka 0 0 93 0 0 36 129
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 07:45:08.19
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: I'm Back! [3357]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Sorry for the delay in information, but my MSN account
wasn't going through the mailing list (same kinda problem as
StableMail). Mike got the problem fixed late last night and I'll
try to get everything caught up by noon today.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 01:08:33.01
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Guidry's Riding Strategy [3336] [3338] [3339] [3343] [3356]
---------------------------------------------------
At 07:34 AM 10/25/97 -0500, Jeff Yelke wrote:
>I personally like Randy Meier. Maybe he didn't need to use
>the whip right away, but if we went back in the pack,
>the race was also over for Nat. I think he is one of the
>smarter riders at HAW. He seems to figure out and take
>advantage of a bias before most, if not all, of the others.
The real problem is that Nat cannot compete at $17.5k on the dirt.
Just blow this race off. It was a lost cause when it came off the
turf.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
27-OCT-1997 01:08:16.67
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Nat's Effort [3347] [3348] [3349] [3355]
---------------------------------------------------
At 10:37 PM 10/25/97 -0500, mikep@ameritech.net wrote:
>What is the day rate for training at Sam?
>What is the shipping cost?
>What is the average purse we would be running for? (where we could win)
Supposedly the daily purses will be $90,000 there this season, which is about
$48,000 less than Arlington was paying, so call any purse there about 2/3 of
an AP purse.
I think. ;-)
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
26-OCT-1997 20:23:22.74
From: IN%"00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu" "Michael E. White"
From: 00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Subject: Re: stablemail [3352] [3354]
---------------------------------------------------
Stable was not being accepted at the time of Itbaya's and DN's race
announcement.
Hopefully I have that corrected now and the VOP mailier will accept and
re-distribute Stable mail. We'll know the next time someone runs.
Mike
--
. , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
|\/| Ball State University / University Computing Services
/bb "\.
/ _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not included.
'\ Action figures sold separately.
~~ \
On Sun, 26 Oct 1997 mikep@ameritech.net wrote:
> V's,
>
> Is anyone getting stablemail?
>
> I got the one for NAT, but not Itbaya. I know mike was working on the
> server but
> I usually get 2 everytime a horse is entered.
>
> ap
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
26-OCT-1997 14:40:28.46
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Nat's Effort [3347] [3348] [3350] [3353]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_KHexlluLd99l4aD4fS1mDw]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Sean,
Nat is welcome on Unsold's van down to SHP if both vote that
way......I don't own Nat so I won't comment......I know Unsold pointing
to a turf race this week...11/3 ...well I guess thats next week......I
guess it depends if it stays on turf or not........After we discuss his
future and vote.....You know I am raring to give Unsold another shot at
winning.....he came so so close once so it whetted my appiete......
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_KHexlluLd99l4aD4fS1mDw]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:17:19 -0500 (EST)
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: Nat's Effort [3347] [3348] [3350]
To: Falstafguy@aol.com, virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <971026121719_-1259370266@mrin40.mail.aol.com>
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
In a message dated 97-10-25 23:22:48 EDT, you write:
<< I have put forth Sam Houston as a place where she might be able to
compete
and perhaps get another run or two on turf. I suggested this with the idea
of
Vop shipping 2 or more horses to Sam. Would we want to ship Nat alone? Would
it be worth our costs? >>
DN could partner up with Unsold....a positive is that Sam Houston is close
enuff to FG that Liane could easily check on them...also you can probably fly
to Houston cheaper than u can to NO...I dont think the drive is that far is
it??.....I think this is every bit a viable plan as is Florida.....Darrell
has already done a lot of research locally...let's think/talk about the Texas
possibility.....
Sean
--Boundary_[ID_KHexlluLd99l4aD4fS1mDw]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
26-OCT-1997 14:26:01.46
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: stablemail [3352]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
Is anyone getting stablemail?
I got the one for NAT, but not Itbaya. I know mike was working on the
server but
I usually get 2 everytime a horse is entered.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
26-OCT-1997 12:26:45.82
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Sam Houston option [3351]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-26 12:18:02 EST, ChgoRanger writes:
<< DN could partner up with Unsold....a positive is that Sam Houston is close
enuff to FG that Liane could easily check on them...also you can probably fly
to Houston cheaper than u can to NO...I dont think the drive is that far is
it??.....I think this is every bit a viable plan as is Florida.....Darrell
has already done a lot of research locally...let's think/talk about the Texas
possibility.....
Sean >>
Please note that my above comments were regarding Unsold & not an attempt to
comment on DN's future......sorry for any misunderstanding.....
Sean
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Re: Nat's Effort [3347] [3348]
Date: 97-10-26 12:18:02 EST
From: ChgoRanger
To: Falstafguy,virtual-owners@vop.org
In a message dated 97-10-25 23:22:48 EDT, you write:
<< I have put forth Sam Houston as a place where she might be able to
compete
and perhaps get another run or two on turf. I suggested this with the idea
of
Vop shipping 2 or more horses to Sam. Would we want to ship Nat alone? Would
it be worth our costs? >>
DN could partner up with Unsold....a positive is that Sam Houston is close
enuff to FG that Liane could easily check on them...also you can probably fly
to Houston cheaper than u can to NO...I dont think the drive is that far is
it??.....I think this is every bit a viable plan as is Florida.....Darrell
has already done a lot of research locally...let's think/talk about the Texas
possibility.....
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
26-OCT-1997 12:20:35.49
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: Nat's Effort [3347] [3348] [3350]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-25 23:22:48 EDT, you write:
<< I have put forth Sam Houston as a place where she might be able to
compete
and perhaps get another run or two on turf. I suggested this with the idea
of
Vop shipping 2 or more horses to Sam. Would we want to ship Nat alone? Would
it be worth our costs? >>
DN could partner up with Unsold....a positive is that Sam Houston is close
enuff to FG that Liane could easily check on them...also you can probably fly
to Houston cheaper than u can to NO...I dont think the drive is that far is
it??.....I think this is every bit a viable plan as is Florida.....Darrell
has already done a lot of research locally...let's think/talk about the Texas
possibility.....
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
25-OCT-1997 22:39:02.42
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Nat's Effort [3347] [3348] [3349]
---------------------------------------------------
What is the day rate for training at Sam?
What is the shipping cost?
What is the average purse we would be running for? (where we could win)
I think we need a few more financial's to decide.
My 15 or 16% worth says run here for 4000 or sell.
Unless, its cost effective to run at Sam, then I can consider options.
ap
At 11:21 PM 10/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Ed/All
> I also wish that Nat had gotten another try on the turf. I think Nat could
>contend on turf but as has been pointed out there are few if any races
>written for the lower level claimers where Nat needs to be. At this point
>while Nat's turf ability is still somewhat unknown I think we have all seen
>what to expect from her on the dirt although a drop to lower claimers might
>help.
> I think the 16 or so Nat owners need to start thinking about the future of
>Nat and what we might want to consider for her. I think we need to get very
>realistic in where we try to run her. I have to agree with ap that 4-5k
>claimers on the dirt are where she belongs. I would like to try her on turf a
>couple more times but that appears not to be an option in Chicago now. I
>would like to see some discussion among the Nat owners and have all ideas
>heard. I would also like for Cal or someone to get Liane's point blank
>feelings on what she would do with her.
> I have put forth Sam Houston as a place where she might be able to compete
>and perhaps get another run or two on turf. I suggested this with the idea of
>Vop shipping 2 or more horses to Sam. Would we want to ship Nat alone? Would
>it be worth our costs? Does another partner have another track suggestion?
>Should we try her in the sales ring?
> For the moment I would say that if Nat will be racing again at Hawthorne
>on the dirt then let's drop her to the lower claimers otherwise let's have
>some discussion on the other possibilities. What say the big 3 Nat
>owners,ap,Steve L. and Joe C.?
>
> Darrell B
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
25-OCT-1997 22:25:05.52
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Re: Nat's Effort [3347] [3348]
---------------------------------------------------
Ed/All
I also wish that Nat had gotten another try on the turf. I think Nat could
contend on turf but as has been pointed out there are few if any races
written for the lower level claimers where Nat needs to be. At this point
while Nat's turf ability is still somewhat unknown I think we have all seen
what to expect from her on the dirt although a drop to lower claimers might
help.
I think the 16 or so Nat owners need to start thinking about the future of
Nat and what we might want to consider for her. I think we need to get very
realistic in where we try to run her. I have to agree with ap that 4-5k
claimers on the dirt are where she belongs. I would like to try her on turf a
couple more times but that appears not to be an option in Chicago now. I
would like to see some discussion among the Nat owners and have all ideas
heard. I would also like for Cal or someone to get Liane's point blank
feelings on what she would do with her.
I have put forth Sam Houston as a place where she might be able to compete
and perhaps get another run or two on turf. I suggested this with the idea of
Vop shipping 2 or more horses to Sam. Would we want to ship Nat alone? Would
it be worth our costs? Does another partner have another track suggestion?
Should we try her in the sales ring?
For the moment I would say that if Nat will be racing again at Hawthorne
on the dirt then let's drop her to the lower claimers otherwise let's have
some discussion on the other possibilities. What say the big 3 Nat
owners,ap,Steve L. and Joe C.?
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
25-OCT-1997 14:55:50.41
From: IN%"Sunwalker@warpnet.net" "Sunwalker Ostrich Ranch"
From: Sunwalker@warpnet.net
Subject: Nat's Effort [3347]
---------------------------------------------------
Darrell & All
Dana & I didn't know the races had been taken
off the turf when we hit the road Chcgo-bound Friday
morning. If we had, we may have gone to work instead.
As it was, we headed off in joyous anticipation of Nat's
third attempt on the turf. I was really looking for this race
to answer some questions about what to do with Nat.
We arrived shortly before the 1st race and began
wandering around the facility, occasionaly donating
money to the mutuel pools. Hooked up with Cal, Sally&
Brian(Bryan?), Jeff Y., Dale Ripley, and Liane. That's
when I found out the race was off the turf. Liane was
really disappointed, as I was. Was Nat's last effort on
the turf due to the surface, being rated, or from being
so fresh? Unfortunately, Friday's race answered none
of those questions. It only confirmed what I expected,
Nat's not a very inspiring runner on the dirt. And it appears
doubtful she'll get another grass opportunity here this year.
As for the jock controversy. I understood that Guidry took
off 'causehe didn't want to ride Nat on the dirt. The concensus
at the track was that it was no great loss. Guidry's never
ridden Nat impressively anyway. Give me Ray.
My understanding of the jock instructions were that
Nat had shown some promise when rated but the track
was clearly speed-biased. So Randy was told to basically
play it by ear.When the gates opened, it appeared to me
that Nat broke a step or two slow. There was a large hole
between the 1 and 3 horses, Randy saw the opportunity
to get to the front and gunned Nat thru the hole. The grey
horse broke well and beat us to the front. Fractions were
reasonable and the rest is history.
We're still left with unanswered questions regarding
Nat and the turf.
Hope Lynn & Kelly are faring better in Dayton!!
Ed Blair
VOP MAIL PAGE
25-OCT-1997 11:21:32.66
From: IN%"kgrace@injersey.com" "Ken Grace"
From: kgrace@injersey.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Itsy plans [3314] [3321] [3335] [3346]
---------------------------------------------------
Allan Weston wrote:
> rebuttal of #3--Here are some of the BEYERS
> that won OPEN claiming races the same week as ITSY: 1. Golden Genie 60k
> clms 90 AP
> 2. Itbaya 14k 86 AP
> 3, New york Rainbow 35k 83 BEL
> 4. Laffites Lady 35k 82 BEL
> 5. Baize 80k 92 SA
>
> on her best race she is on par with NY 35k claims
Okay, Allan, where would you race her? Surely you're not suggesting NY,
where there is no winter turf racing. I'm totally opposed to trying her
on the dirt again. Is Terry's suggestion of Hou a viable one?
Ken G.
VOP MAIL PAGE
25-OCT-1997 09:36:25.14
From: IN%"CRAZZYB@aol.com"
From: CRAZZYB@aol.com
Subject: VOP Pictures & More [3345]
---------------------------------------------------
Just checked out the Vopalooza photos and others,through "the mind of Drew
Ivan".
Kind of scary isn't it. What a Great Experience! Check it out you'll love it.
Forgot all about the Goat.
Bob J
VOP MAIL PAGE
25-OCT-1997 08:47:22.62
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Guidry's/meier [3344]
---------------------------------------------------
V,
As Jeff pointed out, the front or close to it is where you needed to be
yesterday. When the gate opened Nat, didn't want to move AT ALL. As someone
pointed out earlier the lead was an automatic for her since we owned her,
no matter how bad she ran, and even when she won! Meier was sitting tight
on her
for the whole 1st turn and the entire backstretch. My take is either her
shin got
sore at the 1/4 pole or she needs a 4000c race, the later being way out in
front.
As for Guidry.....he gets the exploding Italian sausage at the next VOPaluza.
ap
At 07:34 AM 10/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> Randy Meier rode today. Guidry was off for some reason.
>> Terry
>
>
>All,
>
>Mr. Gudry decided with 5 minutes to post for the 9th, that
>he wasn't going to ride! ( I'll give you he is a good rider,
>but IMO, he can go pound sand)
>
>So, that left Liane and Cal heading to the paddock to look
>for a new jock. Silva said no. Meier was out on track for the 9th, so they
>had
>to wait till he returned, where he accepted. All the other
>usual jocks were already in the 10th.
>
>I don't know the instructions given, but of the 10 races
>yesterday, 6 went wire to wire and 3 had the winner REAL
>close to the front. Speed was definetly good. Positions around
>seemed to stay unchanged for the races I saw.
>
>I personally like Randy Meier. Maybe he didn't need to use
>the whip right away, but if we went back in the pack,
>the race was also over for Nat. I think he is one of the
>smarter riders at HAW. He seems to figure out and take
>advantage of a bias before most, if not all, of the others.
>
>Jeff
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
25-OCT-1997 07:34:06.62
From: IN%"jeffy@megsinet.net" "Jeff Yelke"
From: jeffy@megsinet.net
Subject: Re: Guidry's Riding Strategy [3336] [3338] [3339] [3343]
---------------------------------------------------
> Randy Meier rode today. Guidry was off for some reason.
> Terry
All,
Mr. Gudry decided with 5 minutes to post for the 9th, that
he wasn't going to ride! ( I'll give you he is a good rider,
but IMO, he can go pound sand)
So, that left Liane and Cal heading to the paddock to look
for a new jock. Silva said no. Meier was out on track for the 9th, so they
had
to wait till he returned, where he accepted. All the other
usual jocks were already in the 10th.
I don't know the instructions given, but of the 10 races
yesterday, 6 went wire to wire and 3 had the winner REAL
close to the front. Speed was definetly good. Positions around
seemed to stay unchanged for the races I saw.
I personally like Randy Meier. Maybe he didn't need to use
the whip right away, but if we went back in the pack,
the race was also over for Nat. I think he is one of the
smarter riders at HAW. He seems to figure out and take
advantage of a bias before most, if not all, of the others.
Jeff
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 23:26:16.10
From: IN%"StLMo@aol.com"
From: StLMo@aol.com
Subject: Guidry's Ride ?!? [3342]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPsters,
Let me apologize to Guidry who did NOT ride Nat as it was pointed out to me
by more than just a couple of other VOPsters. (However, HIS ride aboard
Itbaya still sucked.) I got to the OTB just three minutes to post so I
missed the jock switch to R Meier. Mea culpa. In any case, I thought the
ride was BAD, BAD, BAD! I'm being kind.
AP - I think Nat's a little better than a 4000c on the dirt but not by much.
However, I was impressed by that turf race she ran and I think she could
compete in better company on the turf. The only problem is that not too many
tracks have turf races for lower priced claimers. Like Itbaya, I think Nat
is in good form at the moment. I'm open to shipping a couple of our horses
to Houston not just Unsold.
What about KLH? I haven't heard much lately. Will he get a race or two at
Hawthorne? I hope so. I really don't want to ship him to the Fairgrounds
either. That has turned into a very tough circuit.
Look forward to some lively and interesting discussion.
Steve Moses
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 20:22:54.60
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Guidry's Riding Strategy [3336] [3341]
---------------------------------------------------
What race were you watching.......
Guidry didn't ride her, and the jock had a good hold of her the entire length
of the backstretch! She just needs to run for the $4000.00 tag that shes
worth.
ap
At 07:42 PM 10/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>VOPsters,
>
>As Allan, I'm going to vent here - so if there are some sensitive souls out
>there time to delete now.
>
>I didn't say anything about Guidry's ride on Itbaya last time out because I
>don't own a share of Itsy. However, as a part owner of Nat I have to say
>that the last two rides Guidry gave our horses absolutely SUCKED big time for
>a jockey of his caliber!!!! First, I'm upset that Hawthorne management took
>the race off the turf which hurt our chances. The turf course was as hard as
>pavement and the rain that we received would have helped the course. In
>Europe they run in quagmires with 20+ horse fields. But not here... (Let me
>just add that I didn't bet the race so I'm not upset about losing a wager).
>
>Guidry broke Nat as if she were in a quarter horse race - whipping away to
>fight for the lead into the first turn. Without any effort Nat would have
>had the rail and been in 4th or 5th around the first turn. Then Guidry
>continues to go with her dogging a 32-1 shot and pulling a good 6 lengths in
>front of the 3rd place horse. This is just what Guidry did the last time he
>rode Nat. And like the last time, she folded on the far turn with nothing
>left. There is no doubt in my mind that if Guidry had rated her just a bit,
>and we know she can rate per her last race, we would have collected a part of
>that purse!!!!
>I guess that's it for turf racing at Hawthorne. I was SO WANTING Unsold to
>get a race on the sod at Hawthorne. Maybe I'm delusional, but I firmly
>believe he would have had his best shot for a victory for VOP.
>
>OK, enough already but I had to get this off my chest.
>
>One of the "silent" partners.
>
>Steve Moses
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 20:17:19.55
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: web page update [3340]
---------------------------------------------------
The final version of the VOPalooza page is in place, complete with some
error corrections, and can be accessed off a new thumbnail from the main
page, down at the bottom, replacing the "VOP claiming odds".
Also updated the main page VOP race record prior to today, the links page \
(to make Drew happy), and the whatsnew page (to make Ed B. happy). ;-)
Soon come: actual updates on the individual horse pages.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 20:05:45.38
From: IN%"arbourc@flash.net" "Cary Arbour"
From: arbourc@flash.net
Subject: Re: Guidry's Riding Strategy [3336] [3338] [3339]
---------------------------------------------------
I don't know what Randy's instructions were today but as soon as I saw him
whipping her right out of the gate I knew she was history. What's
surprising is the need to whip her. The problem she has had in the past is
her desire to go for lead and running herself out.
So was he told to get her to the lead or close at all costs? Its obvious
that was his intent.
----------
> From: Terry Bjork
> To: virtual-owners@vop.org
> Subject: Re: Guidry's Riding Strategy [3336] [3338]
> Date: Friday, October 24, 1997 7:30 PM
>
> At 07:42 PM 10/24/97 -0400, StLMo@aol.com wrote:
>
> >I didn't say anything about Guidry's ride on Itbaya last time out
because I
> >don't own a share of Itsy. However, as a part owner of Nat I have to
say
> >that the last two rides Guidry gave our horses absolutely SUCKED big
time for
> >a jockey of his caliber!!!!
>
> Randy Meier rode today. Guidry was off for some reason.
>
> Terry
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 19:34:09.89
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Guidry's Riding Strategy [3336] [3338]
---------------------------------------------------
At 07:42 PM 10/24/97 -0400, StLMo@aol.com wrote:
>I didn't say anything about Guidry's ride on Itbaya last time out because I
>don't own a share of Itsy. However, as a part owner of Nat I have to say
>that the last two rides Guidry gave our horses absolutely SUCKED big time for
>a jockey of his caliber!!!!
Randy Meier rode today. Guidry was off for some reason.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 19:30:25.02
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Itsy plans [3314] [3321] [3335] [3337]
---------------------------------------------------
At 06:40 PM 10/24/97 -0400, Allan Weston wrote:
>Partners,
> The rebuttal. I know it won't change anybody's mind and
>Itsy has run her last race for me as an owner of her...However I will
>vent my anger to the list PLEASE hit the delete key now if you don't
>want to hear me went.
I know Itsy is healthy and she just ran one of her biggest career races.
That's what makes the situation very difficult for me, too. That and the
fact that she is absolutely my favorite. Plus she is our best horse at
the moment.
The reality is that she probably isn't going to be all that competitive
at FG because they don't card races for her level. And I will state for
the record that I am dead set against giving her to a trainer other than
Liane. Me and my 10% vote. IMHO the big reason that Itsy has stayed healthy
as she has is entirely attributable to Liane, and I'm not hot on the idea
of turning her over to another trainer.
Allan you haven't owned her for 3 years like I have. She DOES have her
cycles, and a big August and September are normal. Then there's a dropoff.
Last year she came around late at FG, and then she had some time off. And
then it took awhile to get going again, just like the year before. Right
now she's in good shape, but the only acceptable course of action at this
time as far as I am concerned is to send her with Liane to FG, and I just
don't think that's going to be productive.
I think Itbaya would be very competitive at HAW next summer. But that's
a 4 month season and maybe 8 races. And while I would go along with
laying her off until next March and then getting ready for racing in
June, I doubt many other partners would be happy with that. And then
we'd be right back where we started.
So what do we do? If someone has some reasonable ideas that involve
keeping Itsy with Liane, then I'm all ears. Maybe a plan to bring her
back earlier at Canterbury? Maybe, with Wes, and Nat, and Itsy, we should
press Liane into running a stable at Hou this winter? ;-)
I just don't know. No options are really attractive to me. Retiring
a 6yo soon to be 7yo mare just seems like the best course of action
given the realities we are faced with.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 18:45:29.06
From: IN%"StLMo@aol.com"
From: StLMo@aol.com
Subject: Guidry's Riding Strategy [3336]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPsters,
As Allan, I'm going to vent here - so if there are some sensitive souls out
there time to delete now.
I didn't say anything about Guidry's ride on Itbaya last time out because I
don't own a share of Itsy. However, as a part owner of Nat I have to say
that the last two rides Guidry gave our horses absolutely SUCKED big time for
a jockey of his caliber!!!! First, I'm upset that Hawthorne management took
the race off the turf which hurt our chances. The turf course was as hard as
pavement and the rain that we received would have helped the course. In
Europe they run in quagmires with 20+ horse fields. But not here... (Let me
just add that I didn't bet the race so I'm not upset about losing a wager).
Guidry broke Nat as if she were in a quarter horse race - whipping away to
fight for the lead into the first turn. Without any effort Nat would have
had the rail and been in 4th or 5th around the first turn. Then Guidry
continues to go with her dogging a 32-1 shot and pulling a good 6 lengths in
front of the 3rd place horse. This is just what Guidry did the last time he
rode Nat. And like the last time, she folded on the far turn with nothing
left. There is no doubt in my mind that if Guidry had rated her just a bit,
and we know she can rate per her last race, we would have collected a part of
that purse!!!!
I guess that's it for turf racing at Hawthorne. I was SO WANTING Unsold to
get a race on the sod at Hawthorne. Maybe I'm delusional, but I firmly
believe he would have had his best shot for a victory for VOP.
OK, enough already but I had to get this off my chest.
One of the "silent" partners.
Steve Moses
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 17:45:16.29
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Itsy plans [3314] [3321] [3335]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_L2SXGYiioc6zmu76tAnpaw]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Partners,
The rebuttal. I know it won't change anybody's mind and
Itsy has run her last race for me as an owner of her...However I will
vent my anger to the list PLEASE hit the delete key now if you don't
want to hear me went.
rebuttal of #1--ditto and agreed.
rebuttal of #2--if certain unnamed owners want to end their ownership in
Itsy....let them terminate their shares by selling to someone who wants
to race Itsy........not by selling or retiring a perfectly healthy
racehorse who just 2 weeks go won a race for us........INstead of
VOP....we should change our name to VOPWSPHAFRHWTGWOOT. Virtual Owners
Partnership who sells perfectly healthy and fast race horses when they
grow weary of owning them!
rebuttal of #3--Here are some of the BEYERS
that won OPEN claiming races the same week as ITSY: 1. Golden Genie 60k
clms 90 AP
2. Itbaya 14k 86 AP
3, New york Rainbow 35k 83 BEL
4. Laffites Lady 35k 82 BEL
5. Baize 80k 92 SA
on her best race she is on par with NY 35k claims
rebuttal of #4--Her 3 best races (BEYER_WISE) this year were:
FEB 1,1997 81
AUG 9, 1997 80
OCT 8, 1997 86
rebuttal of #5--This is true it cost Terry appox $500 last year to race
at the FG....as it cost me $200 for my pct....there ain't much to rebutt
here
rebuttall of #6--Tis true ITSY owes us nothing
but we OWE ITSY something to race her untilshe sours on racing and her
racing time although numbered aint up yet.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_L2SXGYiioc6zmu76tAnpaw]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:22:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: Terry Bjork
Subject: Re: Itsy plans [3314] [3321]
X-Sender: tlbjork@mailhost.ais.net
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <1.5.4.16.19971023201442.20afebdc@mailhost.ais.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
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Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
At 06:55 PM 10/23/97 -0400, Allan Weston wrote:
>Partners in Itsy,
> You I would have an opionion on Itsy......If
>shes healthy here is how on my 3.74 voting:
>
> The big easy
The Itbaya question is a very tough one.
#1 - I love her dearly. I'd like to have her be our racehorse forever.
#2 - We have some longer term VOP partners who are only in on Itsy, and
who would like to end their ownership experiment.
#3 - Itsy has pretty well established that she is a $16k - $18k horse, and
we really never got those races at FG last year. I talked with Liane
a couple of times, and she stressed how tough the competition is down
there. It was her opinion Itsy ran at least one winning race while
she was there last winter, but the competition was just too tough. I
don't expect it to be different this year - maybe tougher.
#4 - Itbaya has historically had strong Augusts and Septembers. This is
nothing new. If we didn't have to deal with the rest of the year,
she'd be great.
#5 - Last winter at FG was overall a loser for Itsy, and for me as a 10%+
owner, very expensive.
#6 - Itbaya owes us nothing. She's done well for us.
So the bottom line is I'm not sure if I'm in favor of continuing with her
at FG. I think it is going to be expensive.
My personal take would be to retire her. I wouldn't mind selling her to Kate
Mills as a saddle horse, but as Liane has pointed out, Itsy has always been
sound, and it would be nice to keep those sound genes in the thoroughbred
gene pool. So my real wish would be that we could find some way to make her
a broodmare. One off-the-wall idea might be to find a way to go partners with
Tower Farm on her and really cut our costs. That way we could still enjoy her
and her foals, know she was in good hands, and not have to run up a huge
bill to support a broodmare. I have no idea what Wally and Jan think of her.
Terry
--Boundary_[ID_L2SXGYiioc6zmu76tAnpaw]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 17:04:54.79
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Nats race [3334]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
in from HAW 10th race 1-7-10
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 17:04:35.03
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: NAT 3rd.!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [3333]
---------------------------------------------------
3rd from last that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I saw no apparent trouble in the race.
I went to the otb maywood rather than fight traffic.
She seemed to handle it well (track) but meier had to whip her out of the
gate, she seemed to hesitate she stayed 2nd for most of the race.
Unfortunately we couldn't stop it at the 3/8s pole.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 15:20:18.09
From: IN%"kgrace@injersey.com" "Ken Grace"
From: kgrace@injersey.com
Subject: Re: Itsy plans [3314] [3321] [3332]
---------------------------------------------------
I know Itbaya is healthy and has recently been entered where she can show
her stuff, so it would be great to see her continue racing on the turf at
that level for awhile. But where would that be?
Since I don't know of anyplace to run her, I have to agree with Terry's
points and come out where he did. All of these are okay with me: Retire
her, sell her to Kate Mills, get her involved with breeding somehow, put
her through the sales ring.
Ken G.
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 10:51:06.89
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: More Itbaya's Race [3292] [3318] [3331]
---------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 23 Oct 1997, Debby Derlacki wrote:
> Prior to Itsy's race, Dale wrote in part:
> >There looks to be enough speed inside Itbaya to make dropping to the rail
> >a real challenge for Guidry.
> >
> >No rain in Chicagoland for some time and Hawthorne's turf times have been
> >fairly fast.
> >
> > Dale H.
> >
> Those two comments were quite prophetic; I hope Dale is *prophesy-ing* for
> the BC Pick6. :^)
That's the great thing about public predictions. People only remember the
few things you were right about. They don't remember you also said that
Navajo Run was a "one race wonder". :)
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 09:48:56.05
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: OFF the Turf for nat [3328]
---------------------------------------------------
AW,
You were right, its off. I just talked to Haw. 9:30am
I hope we still run!
Does anyone know if we ever ran her on an off track?
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 08:59:48.91
From: IN%"channic@kcco.com" "Tom Channic"
From: channic@kcco.com
Subject: Re: Pick [3307] [3326]
---------------------------------------------------
Brian Brandt wrote:
> I talked to Liane tonight and she would like to join the pick 6 pool.
I guess we've hit the big time with a professional trainer in the pool.
All we need now is for Motorola to sponsor us! ;>
Tom C.
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 08:57:54.18
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: Itsy plans [3314] [3321] [3325]
---------------------------------------------------
>#5 - Last winter at FG was overall a loser for Itsy, and for me as a 10%+
> owner, very expensive.
Not only that, but what do we do after FG? How much turf
racing will there be in Chicago with Arlington absent? If
Itsy's last race is any indication, the turf at Haw isn't
all that great, and there's none at Sportsmans.
Oh, and as for Dayton's weather: be glad you're not in
Denver! They're predicting a foot of snow for today.
Right now, I can *barely* see the ground from my 10th
floor hotel room because of the fog.
Maybe Eddie the precipitation god can do a dance to help
abate the snow enough for my plane to take off on Sunday!
===============================================================
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
===============================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
24-OCT-1997 08:36:01.29
From: IN%"malesia@home.com"
From: malesia@home.com
Subject: BC post draw for 2 YO races [3324]
---------------------------------------------------
Here's a story from Thursday's Los Angeles Times that I thought had
some good information for our BC handicapping.
Good luck to Nat today. (Chicago Trib's Dave Surico has her fourth
with comment "Hint last? Had xcuse")
-- Mark
LA Times 23Oct97
In winning the Oak Leaf Stakes at Santa Anita last Saturday, Vivid
Angel broke from the inside post, left the gate sharply, made the lead
easily and coasted to a 3 1/2-length victory.
The Oak Leaf was a mile race, a sixteenth of a mile shorter than
the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies, but it is not the added distance at
Hollywood Park on Nov. 8 that concerns owner Ed Friendly and trainer Bob
Baffert.
"In a big field at Hollywood, which is what we're likely to have, if
you draw on the outside you can almost forget about it," Friendly said.
"Post position will have a lot to do with who wins the race."
Usually post positions don't mean that much in a two-turn race, but
both of the Breeders' Cup races for 2-year-olds--the Juvenile Fillies
and the Juvenile--will start close to the first turn. There will be a
run of just more than 100 yards before the horses reach that turn, and
in large fields of inexperienced horses, there could be a mad scramble
for position.
Baffert will be holding his breath when post positions are drawn
Nov. 5. He probably will have five 2-year-olds running--Vivid Angel,
Eastside Westside and Marie J in the Juvenile Fillies and
Souvenir Copy and Johnbill in the Juvenile.
"Horses drawing from the nine-hole out will be at an extreme
disadvantage," Baffert said. "There's going to be a big difference
between drawing inside or outside in these races."
The fields for Breeders' Cup races are limited to 14 horses. The
last time the Breeders' Cup was held at Hollywood Park, 13 entered the
Juvenile, and although Success Express won from the No. 11 post, that
was a different situation. The race was only a mile and was run out of
the chute that led on to the backstretch. The horses had to navigate
only one turn.
"The winner [of this year's Juvenile] will likely be in the first
flight and will start from the inside half of the field," said Jim
Mazur, who with Peter Mallett has published a handicappers' guide to the
Breeders' Cup.
Mazur has analyzed 28 races that have been run by 2-year-olds going
1 1/16 miles at Hollywood in the last three years. Twenty-two of the
races--79%--have been won by horses breaking from the
first six post positions. Posts 1 through 3 have accounted for 12 of the
winners.
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 20:43:08.35
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Peanut Colony [3322]
---------------------------------------------------
All,
I see that this filly won the 5th at Haw yesterday by 8 1/4 as "much the
best, clear lead, ridden out" in a time of 1:13.84. She is one of the two
horses that Paparouna beat. Let's get our girl racing!
Bob P.
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 20:26:11.76
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Itsy plans [3314] [3321]
---------------------------------------------------
At 06:55 PM 10/23/97 -0400, Allan Weston wrote:
>Partners in Itsy,
> You I would have an opionion on Itsy......If
>shes healthy here is how on my 3.74 voting:
>
> The big easy
The Itbaya question is a very tough one.
#1 - I love her dearly. I'd like to have her be our racehorse forever.
#2 - We have some longer term VOP partners who are only in on Itsy, and
who would like to end their ownership experiment.
#3 - Itsy has pretty well established that she is a $16k - $18k horse, and
we really never got those races at FG last year. I talked with Liane
a couple of times, and she stressed how tough the competition is down
there. It was her opinion Itsy ran at least one winning race while
she was there last winter, but the competition was just too tough. I
don't expect it to be different this year - maybe tougher.
#4 - Itbaya has historically had strong Augusts and Septembers. This is
nothing new. If we didn't have to deal with the rest of the year,
she'd be great.
#5 - Last winter at FG was overall a loser for Itsy, and for me as a 10%+
owner, very expensive.
#6 - Itbaya owes us nothing. She's done well for us.
So the bottom line is I'm not sure if I'm in favor of continuing with her
at FG. I think it is going to be expensive.
My personal take would be to retire her. I wouldn't mind selling her to Kate
Mills as a saddle horse, but as Liane has pointed out, Itsy has always been
sound, and it would be nice to keep those sound genes in the thoroughbred
gene pool. So my real wish would be that we could find some way to make her
a broodmare. One off-the-wall idea might be to find a way to go partners with
Tower Farm on her and really cut our costs. That way we could still enjoy her
and her foals, know she was in good hands, and not have to run up a huge
bill to support a broodmare. I have no idea what Wally and Jan think of her.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 19:24:04.88
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Dayton [3319] [3320]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_YoefKYxndDATx+mV5YE+LA]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Lynn,
I hope it is being held in an indoor venue....methinks the
weather will be quite foul for man and beast in the
midwest.........Com'n Kelly.......and of course Lynn....good luck in
your 97 finale.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_YoefKYxndDATx+mV5YE+LA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:12:22 -0400
From: Chris & Lynn Cronin
Subject: Dayton [3319]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Message-id: <344FE7E6.1B73@voyager.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
How about JUST ONE MORE (at least for this year) VOP good luck wish for
me and my mare? We're off to Dayton for the Midwest Championships this
weekend...supposed to rain AND snow. Since I've been asking you all for
vibes this season, we've actually done pretty well, and if Eddie the Sun
God could wave a favorable arm over Chicago (for Nat) AND Detroit (for
traveling) AND Dayton (for competing), we may all have a great weekend!
Thanks in advance...
Good luck to Nat and her connections!
Lynn
--Boundary_[ID_YoefKYxndDATx+mV5YE+LA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 19:17:06.81
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: Dayton [3319]
---------------------------------------------------
How about JUST ONE MORE (at least for this year) VOP good luck wish for
me and my mare? We're off to Dayton for the Midwest Championships this
weekend...supposed to rain AND snow. Since I've been asking you all for
vibes this season, we've actually done pretty well, and if Eddie the Sun
God could wave a favorable arm over Chicago (for Nat) AND Detroit (for
traveling) AND Dayton (for competing), we may all have a great weekend!
Thanks in advance...
Good luck to Nat and her connections!
Lynn
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 19:12:15.02
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Re: More Itbaya's Race [3292] [3318]
---------------------------------------------------
Prior to Itsy's race, Dale wrote in part:
>There looks to be enough speed inside Itbaya to make dropping to the rail
>a real challenge for Guidry.
>
>No rain in Chicagoland for some time and Hawthorne's turf times have been
>fairly fast.
>
> Dale H.
>
Those two comments were quite prophetic; I hope Dale is *prophesy-ing* for
the BC Pick6. :^)
Without the traffic jam, I think Itsy had a shot at 2nd. Such is racing
(bad)luck! She looked fit and alert yesterday. When I visited the barn at
AP last Sunday, Itsy was unusually sociable and even played tug-o-war with
the drawstrings of my jacket. It's too bad that Turfing at HAW is probably
over, with Itsy on a roll both physically and mentally.
Went to the barn after the race. It's Sportsman's barn B, near Laramie.
Lianne has her stalls on the west side, north end. Nicer barn than she was
in during the Spring; wider, lighter, much nicer drier floor.
Didn't get to see Itsy; Ms. Shy Bladder wasn't back from the test barn when
I left at 5:30. Did see all the rest of the old gang and a new face.
Impulsive Spender was back from MI, in a corner stall again. Cookie B's
Beau is back, having been through a growth spurt....taaaaller and broader.
The new face is a 2 yr old filly from Michigan.
Well, let's hope for better luck for Nat tomorrow....go girl!!
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 18:56:52.97
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Nats race [3315] [3316] [3317]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_/OxNjbqw80GpSIaFUKl39A]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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AP/all,
I still think it is coming off but these KOD picks are ONLY
for turf racing....if it comes off forget about this post....probable
finish 5-2-1-4
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_/OxNjbqw80GpSIaFUKl39A]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:39:59 -0500
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Nats race [3315] [3316]
In-reply-to: <199710232313.QAA09636@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
X-Sender: mikep@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <3.0.2.32.19971023183959.006aa540@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
AW,
It's dry as a bone! Outside here. There wasn't enough dampness today to wet
the sidewalk. And they are only calling for scattered rain tomorrow.
I say it stays on. The turf races at HAW are numbered due to winter, which
has been known to appear in October. It's not Arlington, where they saving
it for the million.
The race stays on!
ap
At 07:13 PM 10/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Partners,
> No KOD picks for one good reason
>I don't believe it will be kept on the turf and I am not a good
>handicapper on off the turfers......to say I am terrible would be giving
>me way too much credit...sloppy tracks on a whole give me fits.......I
>believe Nat to not get a check if raced
>in the slop....end of streak at 14....of course I could be wrong....If
>raced on the turf......the race sets up perfectly for Nat and she'll
>have a good shot at place show....and a decent chance to win........
>
> Allan
>
>
--Boundary_[ID_/OxNjbqw80GpSIaFUKl39A]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 18:45:04.51
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Nats race [3315] [3316]
---------------------------------------------------
AW,
It's dry as a bone! Outside here. There wasn't enough dampness today to wet
the sidewalk. And they are only calling for scattered rain tomorrow.
I say it stays on. The turf races at HAW are numbered due to winter, which
has been known to appear in October. It's not Arlington, where they saving
it for the million.
The race stays on!
ap
At 07:13 PM 10/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Partners,
> No KOD picks for one good reason
>I don't believe it will be kept on the turf and I am not a good
>handicapper on off the turfers......to say I am terrible would be giving
>me way too much credit...sloppy tracks on a whole give me fits.......I
>believe Nat to not get a check if raced
>in the slop....end of streak at 14....of course I could be wrong....If
>raced on the turf......the race sets up perfectly for Nat and she'll
>have a good shot at place show....and a decent chance to win........
>
> Allan
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 18:17:03.60
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Nats race [3315]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
No KOD picks for one good reason
I don't believe it will be kept on the turf and I am not a good
handicapper on off the turfers......to say I am terrible would be giving
me way too much credit...sloppy tracks on a whole give me fits.......I
believe Nat to not get a check if raced
in the slop....end of streak at 14....of course I could be wrong....If
raced on the turf......the race sets up perfectly for Nat and she'll
have a good shot at place show....and a decent chance to win........
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 17:59:10.05
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Itsy plans [3314]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners in Itsy,
You I would have an opionion on Itsy......If
shes healthy here is how on my 3.74 voting:
The big easy
For me here is my thinking that went into the descion:
1. Last four races in the money with a first and a second.
2. She likes (or a least tolerates the FGturf course)
3. three eighty plus BEYERS this year
4. I want her to get her 100k in purses that should increase her value
as a broodmare when it comes time to sell.
5.and to my thinking WHY SELL A HEALTHY AND FAST HORSE?
6. I want to see her race again under VOP colors with me as owner.
Well thats all I have to say..
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 14:05:36.51
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Re: Pappy [3302] [3305] [3313]
---------------------------------------------------
Steve wrote:
>
>I talked with Liane before Itsy's race about Paparouna. She intends to
>breeze her a half mile on Friday. Depending on her wind she will either
>race on the 29th or the 5th. Liane did say that Pappy was back on her
>regular diet and the hives were gone.
>
>Steve Lewis
>
Liane said she had put Paparouna "back on straw", referring to her bedding
which had been wood shavings. I don't think that there had been a major
change in Poppy's diet recently; might have been early on when the hives
were nasty.
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 09:07:27.30
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: ITSY race [3312]
---------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 23 Oct 1997, Tom Channic wrote:
> She started gaining coming out of the second turn,
> but the traffic on the turf bore an unnerving resemblance to the traffic
> on Cicero avenue at 5pm. (As a matter of fact the *turf* resembled Cicero
> avenue, but that could have been the OTB monitor). Anyway, by the time
> Itsy found some room it was too late. Navajo Move's trip was so much
> smoother, NM drove home by 3 1/2. Song Song Sing sang the seconditis
> blues again, and 2 1/2 lengths later came our girl with daylight
> between her and the also-rans.
>
The replay showed that Itbaya was checked hard and lost a lot of momentum
coming out of the second turn (if I was watching the right horse). That
could be the awkward step Jen mentioned in an earlier post. After the
race, Guidry confirmed to Cal that he was cut off.
From the perspective of the 3rd level of Hawthorne's grandstand, the turf
course looks pretty beat. There appears to be no spring in the turf, so
it looks like every hoofprint from every race this year is still visible.
Apparently, Hawthorne management refuses to water the turf track. Even
with perfect weather, the turf track may close very soon (IMHO).
Silva steered a real nice race on Navajo Run. Navajo Run helped a little
bit too.
Cal, Debbie D., Steve Lewis, and I were the only VOPsters I saw at the
track. I couldn't hang around after the race so I don't have an update
from the barn.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 09:06:01.98
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Itbaya's Race [3311]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
After another really cruddy morning at work, I
was looking forward to the trip to Hawthorne to watch
Itbaya crush a field of 14K claimers. The drive started
much better than last time because my wife remembered to
leave me the good driving CDs (only one Barney in the
bunch!). A quiet 45 minute drive and two tolls later,
I was enjoying the distinctive aroma of Stickney, IL.
I got to the track just before the 6th race went
off. I took a lap of the building and found no other
VOPsters, so I bought a round for myself and watched the
race. I ran into Hershell and he agreed that we had an
excellent chance to win. Itbaya was feeling good and
Guidry was excited to be riding her.
Still no VOPsters around during the seventh, so
I started working out which horses to key with Itbaya in
the late double. The 7/5 favorite with Itbaya was paying
$11, so I opted for a couple of price shots and watched
the favorite win by six. OK, all done betting for the
day.
I headed down to the paddock and ran into Steve
Lewis and Liane. We got a quick update on Paparouna and
then went to the paddock. Dale Herman and Debbie Derlacki
stopped made it for the race and were ready for a big effort
by Itsy.
Itbaya was her typical calm self in the paddock and
looked ready to go. Guidry thought the race set up well with
lots of pace and Itbaya should have an excellent shot. I
headed back upstairs and watched the race from the third floor
grandstands. It was a good start for everyone except Bet
She Wins who was left behind by six lengths at the start.
Guidry was taking Itsy back off the pace and looking for
a spot to drop over to the rail. The spot never materialized
and Itbaya went two wide around the turn. Itsy settled into
8th on the backstretch and was moving along easily. At
about the half mile pole, Bet She Wins caught up with the
field and parked directly outside of Itbaya. Mark was blocked
from the start of the turn until the 8th pole. When he finally
got room to run, Itsy shot from 8th to 3rd, but the damage was
done and Navajo Move was long gone. Itsy came off the race
fine and Mark was upset that the rider of BSW kept boxing
him in when his horse had no shot to win. Mark said Itbaya
ran great today, she just had a rough trip.
Most likely, this was Itbaya's last race on the turf
here this year. We need to come up with a plan on what to
do with Itbaya. I'll cover more on this in a separate post.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 08:51:53.27
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: ITSY race [3298] [3309] [3310]
---------------------------------------------------
I'll add a few details.
>(As a matter of fact the *turf* resembled Cicero
>avenue, but that could have been the OTB monitor).
Yes, I noticed this as well. In fact, when I saw the turf
I realized that even though we were racing at about the
same class, same distance, same surface, many of the same
horses, this track was totally different from AP. The zippy
fractions add weight to the argument that Haw's turf is
very pavementlike.
A lot of the horses broke together in a line, and they
stayed that way for quite a while before the leaders got
ahead of the field and over to the rail. Itsy lost ground
in the turn and sat between horses near the back of the
pack.
A horse outside Itsy started moving ahead, and she initally
followed, but seemed like she couldn't keep up. The field
bunched up in the stretch, and it looked like she was trying
to move ahead, but was hampered by the tight traffic.
Eventually, Mark was able to find some daylight and get her
to the front, but by then there were already two horses clear
of the field.
Basically, Itsy had traffic problems near the beginning and
end of the race. I don't know if she would have done any
better without the problems, but it certainly didn't help.
The turf seemed really hard and fast, and I'd be interested
to hear what Liane and/or Herschell thinks about the safety
of the track and our ability to compete on such a hard turf
course....so maybe one of the local partners could remember
to ask about this during the next barn visit.
===============================================================
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
===============================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
23-OCT-1997 00:30:43.31
From: IN%"bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET" "Brian Brandt"
From: bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET
Subject: Pick [3307]
---------------------------------------------------
I talked to Liane tonight and she would like to join the pick 6 pool. I
thought it would be OK, the more the better. I can say she is a much
better handicapper than I, but that aint much!
Brian B
PS I am thinking of flying up for the day on the 29th, TOS is running
(hopefully) it would be great to see Paparona too. Hope I get to see
some other VOPers too.
BB
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 21:36:54.23
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Another Pick-6 example [3272] [3284] [3286] [3289] [3306]
---------------------------------------------------
elvis@mcs.com wrote:
>
> Pacheco, Joe wrote:
> >
> > Agreed,
> > The question is which longshots, in which races? That, as they say in
> > handicapping 101, is the question.
> > Joe P
>
Elvisware will no doubt contribute a few, with reasons why. But they
probably won't be available until DRF releases it's numbers. Sometimes
they do it a bit earlier than the usual 2-day advance.
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 20:40:24.38
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pappy [3302] [3305]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners:
I talked with Liane before Itsy's race about Paparouna. She intends to
breeze her a half mile on Friday. Depending on her wind she will either
race on the 29th or the 5th. Liane did say that Pappy was back on her
regular diet and the hives were gone.
Steve Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 20:24:07.81
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Another Pick 6 [3304]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPers,
I see there was one winning Pick 6 ticket at Santa Anita today that paid
over $515,000. A little inspiration for our BC pick 6. No pressure on those
that will make the final choices........JUST WIN BABY
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 19:54:25.69
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Canterbury Tails(off) [3303]
---------------------------------------------------
All,
Don't look for Cby to pick up any of the slack left by the closing of AP.
Yesterday, all six proposals for funding a new Minnesota Twins stadium died
in committee. One of these involved the installation of 1500 slot machines
and 25 blackjack tables at Canterbury Park. This state (lottery)-run casino
would have paid for a stadium, contributed to the state's general fund, and
supplemented purses at the track. With the action of our eminently astute
legislature (some, allegedly, in the pockets of the local Indian population),
two things are almost assured: the birth of the Carolina Twins, and a Cby
purse structure stuck at about 65K per day. Wish there was better news,
Bob P. :-(
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 18:52:49.53
From: IN%"ldawson@netins.net"
From: ldawson@netins.net
Subject: Pappy [3302]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Have I missed a post on Pappy? It's been a long time since I've heard
on how she's doing. Did she work last week? Is she gonna be ready for
the race on the 29th?
Curious
Eric Dawson
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 18:20:36.66
From: IN%"Sunwalker@warpnet.net" "Sunwalker Ostrich Ranch"
From: Sunwalker@warpnet.net
Subject: Dance Naturally ( I love that name!) [3301]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
As usual, as soon as I hear Nat's entered to run,
this little internal excitement engine begins to run and
increases in intensity as race time draws nearer. I love
this game!!! :)
I talked Dana into taking the day off (without pay)
to come watch her with me. All I had to do was promise
to win enough to replace her lost wages.( C'mon, Nat!)
So we'll be at Hawthorne Friday. Hope to see a lot of
you there!
Ed "v'room v'room" Blair
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 18:20:21.55
From: IN%"Sunwalker@warpnet.net" "Sunwalker Ostrich Ranch"
From: Sunwalker@warpnet.net
Subject: BC Pic 6 [3300]
---------------------------------------------------
All,
There has been some discussion about how to
make the final selections known to all involved. I'll
be watching the races from the comfort of my couch.
If it would help, Cal could call me with the final ticket
combos. Then anyone could call me to get the info.
That way Cal would just have to make one call and
would be no hassle at all from my end.
Just a thought.
I hope Allan's confidence turns out to be justified!
Ed " the homebody" Blair
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 17:16:22.48
From: IN%"jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu" "Jen Roth"
From: jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: ITSY race [3298] [3299]
---------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Allan Weston wrote:
> Partners,
> Did Hawthorne pave over the turf course while we weren't
> looking........22.1.......110.2....Itsy didn't stand a chance on this
> stuff they called turf.....she came late for third but wayyyyyyyy behind
> Navajo and song sing....she needs a course that has some "give" to
> it......it wasn't at Hawthorne today.......
She was caught in traffic till midstretch, which didn't help much either,
but yeah ... I was pretty surprised at the fractions. Cal (or anyone else
who was there), please let us know how she came out of the race. I
thought I saw her take a funny step at the top of the stretch, but she
looked fine after that, so maybe she clipped heels slightly or I was
hallucinating or something.
Trip notes:
Itsy broke well, and Guidry took her back while constantly looking over
his shoulder for room to slip over to the rail. Either there wasn't room
or Itsy blew the turn, because she ended up wide and losing ground. She
ran 7th-8th most of the race, and was making up some ground as they
started to bunch up going into the final turn, but she just had nowhere to
go. Finally shook free in midstretch, put away the also-rans, and made up
a couple of lengths on Song Song Sing, but never threatened her.
--
Jen Roth
jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu
Thank you for not dumping core.
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 17:04:48.00
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: ITSY race [3298]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Did Hawthorne pave over the turf course while we weren't
looking........22.1.......110.2....Itsy didn't stand a chance on this
stuff they called turf.....she came late for third but wayyyyyyyy behind
Navajo and song sing....she needs a course that has some "give" to
it......it wasn't at Hawthorne today.......
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 16:38:58.75
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: itsy 3rd [3297]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
4-2-9
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 13:26:22.47
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: More Itbaya's Race [3292] [3295]
---------------------------------------------------
>No rain in Chicagoland for some time and Hawthorne's turf times have been
>fairly fast. More dry and cold today.
Lucky. We have premature snow here in Cleveland. Perfect
weather for the World Series, no?
Tomorrow, I'm leaving on a jet plane. I'm going to Denver.
Any advice/things to see? I know the VOP gang is well-
travelled, and I'll bet some of you know a few night spots.
I just found out today that the Breeder's Cup is on Nov 8.
I thought it was on Nov 1. I figured I'd mention it just
in case any of y'all were laboring under a similar mis-
apprehension. Wow, we have TWO WHOLE WEEKS to fight over
the Pic6 picks!
Just about three hours now until Itsy's race. I agree with
Dale that it'll be a jockey's race among the top 4, but I
have little else to add to the handicapping notes.
===============================================================
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
===============================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 13:22:57.49
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: More Itbaya's Race [3292] [3294]
---------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Dale E. Herman wrote:
> I hope to see a couple scratches from trainers who will look for an easier
> spot next week.
I just called Hawthorne. A Derby Day Wedd (the 6) scratched. Baby Gato
Sol is in.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 13:20:58.12
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: More Itbaya's Race [3292] [3293]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_F1zQK5j7SpMvhwK8iETvgQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Dale/all,
That was not just any male turfer that was BREAKFAST CLUB.....
Allan
ps--another Turfer claimed by Pat Cuccurullo
that make Rita (18k) Club (14k) augie my daddie (35K) in the last
week.....what is Pat trying to do corner the market!!!!!!!!!
--Boundary_[ID_F1zQK5j7SpMvhwK8iETvgQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:02:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dale E. Herman"
Subject: More Itbaya's Race [3292]
To: Virtual Owners Partnership
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
This should be a fun race to watch. Bet She Wins, Song Song Sing, Navajo
Move, and Itbaya look to be a step above the rest of these. Looks to be a
strategic battle between Gomez, Meier, Silva, and Guidry. Bet She Wins,
Navajo Move, and Itbaya seem to need a clear lead in the stretch to win,
maybe favoring the closer Song Song Sing. But eight-year-old Song Song
Sing seems to have caught seconditis. I think you'll see more than one
horse in the finish line photo. I wish I knew which one will be in front.
There looks to be enough speed inside Itbaya to make dropping to the rail
a real challenge for Guidry. Will he gun her out of the gate or drop
back?
No rain in Chicagoland for some time and Hawthorne's turf times have been
fairly fast. More dry and cold today. 14K male winner went 1-1/16 in
1:42+ yesterday.
I hope to see a couple scratches from trainers who will look for an easier
spot next week.
Dale H.
--Boundary_[ID_F1zQK5j7SpMvhwK8iETvgQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 13:05:45.03
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: More Itbaya's Race [3292]
---------------------------------------------------
This should be a fun race to watch. Bet She Wins, Song Song Sing, Navajo
Move, and Itbaya look to be a step above the rest of these. Looks to be a
strategic battle between Gomez, Meier, Silva, and Guidry. Bet She Wins,
Navajo Move, and Itbaya seem to need a clear lead in the stretch to win,
maybe favoring the closer Song Song Sing. But eight-year-old Song Song
Sing seems to have caught seconditis. I think you'll see more than one
horse in the finish line photo. I wish I knew which one will be in front.
There looks to be enough speed inside Itbaya to make dropping to the rail
a real challenge for Guidry. Will he gun her out of the gate or drop
back?
No rain in Chicagoland for some time and Hawthorne's turf times have been
fairly fast. More dry and cold today. 14K male winner went 1-1/16 in
1:42+ yesterday.
I hope to see a couple scratches from trainers who will look for an easier
spot next week.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 11:56:23.79
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: RE: Fwd: Another Pick-6 example [3272] [3284] [3286] [3289] [3290]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_EdrfKbtCdCRS4BExyt9BHg]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
pick six partners,
Right now I would say the sprint.......Is
primed for a longshot....
Allan
ps-I will also recommend cal-based with slightly inferior
records.....home field advantage and all that rot....as a possible
upsetter
--Boundary_[ID_EdrfKbtCdCRS4BExyt9BHg]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 09:11:02 -0500
From: "Pacheco, Joe"
Subject: RE: Fwd: Another Pick-6 example [3272] [3284] [3286] [3289]
To: "'mikep@ameritech.net'"
Cc: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Agreed,
The question is which longshots, in which races? That, as they say in
handicapping 101, is the question.
Joe P
>----------
>From: mikep@ameritech.net[SMTP:mikep@ameritech.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 1997 9:03 AM
>To: virtual-owners@vop.org
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Another Pick-6 example [3272] [3284] [3286]
>
>Agreed,
>Maybe we could committ some picks to the longshot possibility that eliminates
>so many people. Thereby keeping us in for the big payoff.
>ap
>
>
>At 09:39 AM 10/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>Tom/Joe/all,
>> Yes it cost a bit but I think it is worth it to
>>consider maybe it some sort of modified version.....The BC pick six will
>>not be won by all favs.......there is always 1 or 2 that knock all the
>>pick 6 players out......to throw in a plausible longshot keeps us in
>>when the other players go out....if it comes in.......the payoff willbe
>>HUGE and I want it.........
>> Allan
>>Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:23:47 -0500 (CDT)
>>From: Tom Channic
>>Subject: Another Pick-6 example [3272]
>>In-reply-to:
>>
>ds.com>
>>Sender: channic@clark.devl.kcco.com
>>To: "Pacheco, Joe"
>>Cc: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
>>Reply-to: Tom Channic
>>Message-id:
>>MIME-version: 1.0
>>Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>>X-BlackMail: root@172.17.1.5, chile.bb.kcco.com, channic@kcco.com,
>>172.17.1.5
>>X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 15:23:49(CDT) on October 21, 1997
>>Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
>>
>>
>>Thanks, Joe for the main-backup example. That particular example by
>>my reckoning would cost us $2144 which may be a little out of our range
>>but time will tell. In any case, it's a good example and a real bargain
>>for going 7 horses deep in a race. Note that having both the main
>>and backup horses on one ticket would cost you 4 x 4 x 4 x 3 x 3 7 x $2 =
>>$8064!!
>>
>>Here's my example, a little more complicated perhaps, but illustrative
>>of a slightly different approach to the problem. Let's say the trackpots
>>have narrowed the contenders down to 4 per race. And furthermore all
>>agree that the #1 pick has an excellent chance of winning in three of
>>the six races. In this case, they could limit the betting by requiring
>>that the #1 pick will win at least two of the three "excellent" races.
>>
>>Then the bet could be made in four tickets as follows: (The ticket
>>assumes the first three races are the "excellent" races for simplicity
>>only. It could be any three races.)
>>
>>Tckt # of Horses per race
>>---- --------------------
>> 1 1/1/1/4/4/4 All #1 horses win the three "excellents"
>> 2 1/1/3/4/4/4 #1 horses win 1st and 2nd races, not 3rd
>> 3 1/3/1/4/4/4 #1 horses win 1st and 3rd races, not 2nd
>> 4 3/1/1/4/4/4 #1 horses win 2nd and 3rd races, not 1st
>>
>>Under the assumptions, this lets us go 4 deep per race for $1280, whereas
>>it would cost $1458 for one ticket going 3 deep per race. In fact, for
>>an extra $320 you could go 5 deep in one of "non-excellent" races.
>>Also note that the first ticket is only $128 and adding a horse to
>>one of the 4-horse races only costs an extra $32, which would be a
>>good place to add a little extra cash.
>>
>>I am not recommending this particular strategy per se. The condition to
>>hit one of three cold doubles is a little stringent (especially if Allan is
>>only picking two races). But it makes a good example. Less stringent
>>conditions can be used with only slightly less dramatic savings.
>>
>>The same idea can be used with Allan's main-backup approach to allow
>>our main ticket to be wrong in one OR TWO races. This would involve
>>16 tickets so I won't list them all here. It would also significantly
>>reduce the number of horses involved, but probably not below the 4
>>horses per race number of the above example.
>>
>>Hope this has been useful.
>>
>>Go Itbaya manyana and Nat on Sat!
>>
>>Tom C.
>>
>
--Boundary_[ID_EdrfKbtCdCRS4BExyt9BHg]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 11:17:51.05
From: IN%"ccbree@uky.campus.mci.net"
From: ccbree@uky.campus.mci.net
Subject: Paparouna [3287]
---------------------------------------------------
Hello everybody!
Just curious if there is any news on Paparouna?
Thanks
Charlie Baker
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 09:08:58.54
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Fwd: Another Pick-6 example [3272] [3284] [3286]
---------------------------------------------------
Agreed,
Maybe we could committ some picks to the longshot possibility that eliminates
so many people. Thereby keeping us in for the big payoff.
ap
At 09:39 AM 10/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Tom/Joe/all,
> Yes it cost a bit but I think it is worth it to
>consider maybe it some sort of modified version.....The BC pick six will
>not be won by all favs.......there is always 1 or 2 that knock all the
>pick 6 players out......to throw in a plausible longshot keeps us in
>when the other players go out....if it comes in.......the payoff willbe
>HUGE and I want it.........
> Allan
>Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:23:47 -0500 (CDT)
>From: Tom Channic
>Subject: Another Pick-6 example [3272]
>In-reply-to:
>
>Sender: channic@clark.devl.kcco.com
>To: "Pacheco, Joe"
>Cc: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
>Reply-to: Tom Channic
>Message-id:
>MIME-version: 1.0
>Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>X-BlackMail: root@172.17.1.5, chile.bb.kcco.com, channic@kcco.com, 172.17.1.5
>X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 15:23:49(CDT) on October 21, 1997
>Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
>
>
>Thanks, Joe for the main-backup example. That particular example by
>my reckoning would cost us $2144 which may be a little out of our range
>but time will tell. In any case, it's a good example and a real bargain
>for going 7 horses deep in a race. Note that having both the main
>and backup horses on one ticket would cost you 4 x 4 x 4 x 3 x 3 7 x $2 =
>$8064!!
>
>Here's my example, a little more complicated perhaps, but illustrative
>of a slightly different approach to the problem. Let's say the trackpots
>have narrowed the contenders down to 4 per race. And furthermore all
>agree that the #1 pick has an excellent chance of winning in three of
>the six races. In this case, they could limit the betting by requiring
>that the #1 pick will win at least two of the three "excellent" races.
>
>Then the bet could be made in four tickets as follows: (The ticket
>assumes the first three races are the "excellent" races for simplicity
>only. It could be any three races.)
>
>Tckt # of Horses per race
>---- --------------------
> 1 1/1/1/4/4/4 All #1 horses win the three "excellents"
> 2 1/1/3/4/4/4 #1 horses win 1st and 2nd races, not 3rd
> 3 1/3/1/4/4/4 #1 horses win 1st and 3rd races, not 2nd
> 4 3/1/1/4/4/4 #1 horses win 2nd and 3rd races, not 1st
>
>Under the assumptions, this lets us go 4 deep per race for $1280, whereas
>it would cost $1458 for one ticket going 3 deep per race. In fact, for
>an extra $320 you could go 5 deep in one of "non-excellent" races.
>Also note that the first ticket is only $128 and adding a horse to
>one of the 4-horse races only costs an extra $32, which would be a
>good place to add a little extra cash.
>
>I am not recommending this particular strategy per se. The condition to
>hit one of three cold doubles is a little stringent (especially if Allan is
>only picking two races). But it makes a good example. Less stringent
>conditions can be used with only slightly less dramatic savings.
>
>The same idea can be used with Allan's main-backup approach to allow
>our main ticket to be wrong in one OR TWO races. This would involve
>16 tickets so I won't list them all here. It would also significantly
>reduce the number of horses involved, but probably not below the 4
>horses per race number of the above example.
>
>Hope this has been useful.
>
>Go Itbaya manyana and Nat on Sat!
>
>Tom C.
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 09:00:52.42
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: NAT on FRI [3285]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
I hope everyone concerned knows NAT is in for friday.
I only got one stablemail instead of the usual 2.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 08:43:00.96
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Another Pick-6 example [3272] [3284]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_JYO2kOw9VE+GVoobZKnDBw]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Tom/Joe/all,
Yes it cost a bit but I think it is worth it to
consider maybe it some sort of modified version.....The BC pick six will
not be won by all favs.......there is always 1 or 2 that knock all the
pick 6 players out......to throw in a plausible longshot keeps us in
when the other players go out....if it comes in.......the payoff willbe
HUGE and I want it.........
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_JYO2kOw9VE+GVoobZKnDBw]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:23:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Channic
Subject: Another Pick-6 example [3272]
In-reply-to:
Sender: channic@clark.devl.kcco.com
To: "Pacheco, Joe"
Cc: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
Reply-to: Tom Channic
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
X-BlackMail: root@172.17.1.5, chile.bb.kcco.com, channic@kcco.com, 172.17.1.5
X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 15:23:49(CDT) on October 21, 1997
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Thanks, Joe for the main-backup example. That particular example by
my reckoning would cost us $2144 which may be a little out of our range
but time will tell. In any case, it's a good example and a real bargain
for going 7 horses deep in a race. Note that having both the main
and backup horses on one ticket would cost you 4 x 4 x 4 x 3 x 3 7 x $2 =
$8064!!
Here's my example, a little more complicated perhaps, but illustrative
of a slightly different approach to the problem. Let's say the trackpots
have narrowed the contenders down to 4 per race. And furthermore all
agree that the #1 pick has an excellent chance of winning in three of
the six races. In this case, they could limit the betting by requiring
that the #1 pick will win at least two of the three "excellent" races.
Then the bet could be made in four tickets as follows: (The ticket
assumes the first three races are the "excellent" races for simplicity
only. It could be any three races.)
Tckt # of Horses per race
---- --------------------
1 1/1/1/4/4/4 All #1 horses win the three "excellents"
2 1/1/3/4/4/4 #1 horses win 1st and 2nd races, not 3rd
3 1/3/1/4/4/4 #1 horses win 1st and 3rd races, not 2nd
4 3/1/1/4/4/4 #1 horses win 2nd and 3rd races, not 1st
Under the assumptions, this lets us go 4 deep per race for $1280, whereas
it would cost $1458 for one ticket going 3 deep per race. In fact, for
an extra $320 you could go 5 deep in one of "non-excellent" races.
Also note that the first ticket is only $128 and adding a horse to
one of the 4-horse races only costs an extra $32, which would be a
good place to add a little extra cash.
I am not recommending this particular strategy per se. The condition to
hit one of three cold doubles is a little stringent (especially if Allan is
only picking two races). But it makes a good example. Less stringent
conditions can be used with only slightly less dramatic savings.
The same idea can be used with Allan's main-backup approach to allow
our main ticket to be wrong in one OR TWO races. This would involve
16 tickets so I won't list them all here. It would also significantly
reduce the number of horses involved, but probably not below the 4
horses per race number of the above example.
Hope this has been useful.
Go Itbaya manyana and Nat on Sat!
Tom C.
--Boundary_[ID_JYO2kOw9VE+GVoobZKnDBw]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
22-OCT-1997 08:15:15.00
From: IN%"HORSEA2@aol.com"
From: HORSEA2@aol.com
Subject: testing [3283]
---------------------------------------------------
hello
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 23:34:38.47
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Itsy's race [3282]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Here are the Weston KOD for tomorrow's Itsy race
1. Bet she wins--heads up the class ladder without moving up in class
the invasion of the 16-18k's...has had high speed at times and I feel
tommorow will br no exception
2. song song sing--this is not this mares fav distance (0 for 17) but of
course as ALWAYS this horse will run its race
3.Easy Data-- No reason to think that this filly can handle this tough
group of mares..toss
4. Navajo Move--Stalking trip by Mr silva a bust last trip your move Mr
silva
5. Plainswomen--By that immortal turf sire American Legion....turf
firster is an easy toss
6. A Derby Day Wedd--Mr Dorris tries fitting a square horse (ie not a
turfer) into a round race (turf).....toss'em
7.Annapolis fan--A warm-up vet scratch last out...has visiited LOURDES
and is CURED....former class horse....should be retired from racing
gracifully....toss and pray for this one to get around safely
8. Tricky Trump--Best chance for this one is to sit and pick up some
late pieces for a minor share....toss
10. Monique mystique--Sprinter strerching out to turf...turf breeding
not that bad...but I'm from missouri so show me...tosse...french accent
a guere on the final e
11.Baby Gato sol---ae--doesn't belong in this class is an
understatement....weston KOD auto toss
12. womanwithanattitude.....ae...another wishful trainer......toss
9.ITBAYA--The NOW horse in this class after breaking looooong losing
skein in a big way....gets rifdden back by GUIDRY
well partners pretty cut and dried race
probable finish: 9-2-1-4
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 21:52:26.47
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: Re: Pick 6 Status [3222] [3281]
---------------------------------------------------
Just checking mail for the first time in a few days. Can elvis and his
ware still get in?
Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>
> Y'all,
> The list stands at 24:
>
> Tom C, Cal, Joe P, Al W., Mark A, Darrell B, Bob P, Steve L, ap
> Jim, Cary A, Lynn C, Kent S, Robert H, Gary L, Jen R, Eric D, Rich B
> Sean, Brian B, Karen, Joe C, Ed B, Drew I
>
> Please review the list to make sure your name is on the list (It was a
> long weekend). Also, we need to think about getting our checks in for
> the wager. Any volunteers to handle the money and the bet?
> Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 21:46:26.01
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: Re: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3280]
---------------------------------------------------
Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>
> Y'all,
> Here is a list of the partners interested in the Pick 6:
>
> Cal
> Joe P
> Tom C
> Big Al
> Mark A.
> Bob P.
> Darrell B
>
> Anybody else interested, just add yourself to the list.
> Joe P
How 'bout a little elvisware? We'd like to get in.
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 17:10:15.96
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: BC Turf-Another one bites the dust [3271] [3278]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_dBzRxcpaEXQA3/o6KJp8bw]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
JOE,
Rainbow Dancer bites the dust.....LIane better have The Flash
ready just in case....:-)
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_dBzRxcpaEXQA3/o6KJp8bw]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:49:58 -0500
From: "Pacheco, Joe"
Subject: BC Turf-Another one bites the dust [3271]
To: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Y'all,
The BC turf lost another speedster when Influent was withdrawn with an
injury. With Marlin also out, the front end speed of the race is gone.
The deep closers like Awad and Rainbow Dancer may have zero pace to run
at. Allen, what says you?
Joe "Turf Beat Reporter" Pacheco
--Boundary_[ID_dBzRxcpaEXQA3/o6KJp8bw]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 16:43:49.16
From: IN%"BOZE8@aol.com"
From: BOZE8@aol.com
Subject: Pick 6 [3277]
---------------------------------------------------
Count me in for $50.
Terry Crozier
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 16:30:01.26
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: More on Sam Houston [3276]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPers,
Going to try this one again because of list problems.
Finally talked to racing sec. office at Sam and they said they will have
turf racing during the whole meet. I still figure 1 per day with 2 turfers
every few days. They also informed me that purses will be on the order of
$80-85k per day. Last year it was $65k per day so some improvement there
though a far cry from the big leagues.
Just a bit more info so decisions can be made at some point.
I also repeated in the missing post that I support sending Nat to Sam if
VOP ships Unsold. I feel she can compete there and if VOP may ship one horse
down it might as well be two.
And banish the thought of my own selfish reason for calling on Nat to ship
down( that of course being that I could drive over and see her run) Has no
bearing on my suggestion.
Darrell B lying a little bit in that last statement
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 16:00:32.89
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: nat's in FRI [3275]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
In case someone hasn't gotten stable mail she is in Fri. 10th race.
Does anyone know what time race 10 go's?
ALLEN? any picks here?
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 15:50:42.89
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: PICK 6 Pool [3260] [3274]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal,
Can we wave the rule #1 requirement. I want to put in $61.42.............
I have to............its my lucky Number.................................
.................copyright(the period)aw..............
ap..............
;-).........................................................................
...
At 09:49 AM 10/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Y'all,
>
> I'll be running the BC picks similar to how
>Tom did the PIC9. Here's the rules for the pool.
>Rules 1,2&6 are cast in stone. The other selection
>rules are open for discussion if someone has an
>idea on how to improve them.
>
>
>
>#1. It's two weeks until the Breeder's Cup so everyone
>should have plenty of time to get a check to me. I'll
>accept credit only in extreme cases. There's no minimum
>or maximum, but please make your buy-in in whole dollar
>amounts. (i.e. no buying in for $82.17) Make your
>checks payable to me and send them to: 4491 Thornbark
>Drive, Hoffman Estates, IL 60195. I'll post the list
>of players as the money arrives so you'll know I got
>your check. Also mark your check for the pic6 pool so
>I won't confuse it with a cash call check.
>
>#2. The BC past performances are typically out two days
>before the races. This should give everyone enough time
>to handicap the races and email me their picks. Entries
>close at 6AM the morning of the Breeder's Cup. I'll be
>off to the track shortly after that and you're input
>won't be used. You are not required to pick the races
>if you don't want. Send in your money and a crack team
>of VOP crackpots will take pot shots with your money.
>
>#3. If you choose to pick horses, each selection must
>be weighted by a dollar amount. The total amount of
>dollars used for the picks must be your buy-in. You
>are not required to pick all the races, use your money
>where you have an opinion.
>
>#4. A summary of all horses selected and their respective
>weightings will be taken to the track where the final
>selections will be made based on weightings assigned
>and what-ever best fit algorithm can be applied. I
>don't have a total yet, but hopefully we can go at
>least two deep in each of the races. The Thursday
>before the BC, I'll announce a time and meeting place
>at Hawthorne where all interested parties can attend
>and possibly participate in the final selections. It
>wasn't too crazy for the pic 9, but we were a little
>rushed at the end. I plan to start this early and
>have all the email picks totaled before getting to
>the track to expidite the process.
>
>#5. I will be the final judge on the ticket to be
>bought. I'll try to include as much input as I can,
>but we need cut-offs somewhere. Most likely, we will
>not be able to be the exact amount collected. The
>excess money will be made as a win bet on the horse
>given the highest weighting by the partners. If a
>partner is willing and available, I'll call after
>the ticket has been purchased and the selections
>can be posted to the list.
>
>#6. Any winning ticket(s) which would require the
>attention of the IRS will not be cashed until our
>accountant advises us on the proper way to report
>and collect the winnings.
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 15:44:53.22
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: PICK 6 Pool IRS!![3260] [3268] [3273]
---------------------------------------------------
Just leave the IRS to me! I make em an offer. You know what kind.
a(the hatchet)p
At 12:52 PM 10/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Excellent guidelines, Cal. We're out of the gate with a flourish.
>Just a few comments which I hope will prove useful.
>
>#1 (Money). Although I expressed support for a $25 min, I agree there's
>no need for it. Participants should realize however that if you send in
>two bucks, you might only get back a thousandth of the payoff.
>
>#2 >>Send in your money and a crack team of VOP crackpots will take pot shots
>with your money.<< Maybe we should do this over pot luck ;>
>
>#3 (Dollar weightings). Sounds good. The more you pay, the more you play.
>
>#4 (Track conclave) Worked good for Pic-9. Should go even smoother with
>e-mails pre-compiled and only six races.
>
>#5 (Final ticket) Regarding excess, maybe one or more of the crackpot VOPrs
>can add any odd amount it would take to add one more horse on one ticket.
>Otherwise, I like Drew's suggestion except I'd rather have all the horses
>in the Sprint to insure we're still alive for race 2. ;>
>
>Regarding final ticket, it seems possible that we can go 3 deep in every
>race on one ticket, but that would be an inefficient use of that size
>pool. Once you can get past two deep per race, it makes sense to go
>deeper in some races and shallower in others on multiple tickets. (I'll
>post more on this later). If we have multiple tickets, we could easily
>run out of cellphone batteries AND voice mail message capacity. Maybe
>we can construct a small phone pyramid, where the trackpots call 2-3
>OOTers, who in turn call 2-3 OOTers, and so on, until everyone who wants
>to know, knows.
>
>#6 (IRS) Bring 'em on!
>
>Go Itbaya!
>
>Tom C.
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 14:54:18.41
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: BC Turf-Another one bites the dust [3271]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
The BC turf lost another speedster when Influent was withdrawn with an
injury. With Marlin also out, the front end speed of the race is gone.
The deep closers like Awad and Rainbow Dancer may have zero pace to run
at. Allen, what says you?
Joe "Turf Beat Reporter" Pacheco
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:33:16.68
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Itsy Race DRF Picks [3269]
---------------------------------------------------
Here the DRF KOD.
ANALYST: Itbaya
Navajo Move
Song Song Sing
TRACKMAN:Song Song Sing
Annapolis Fan
Bet She Wins
HERMIS: Itbaya
Song Song Sing
Bet She Wins
SWEEP: Itbaya
Bet She Wins
Song Song Sing
We're very popular.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:33:11.68
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: PICK 6 Pool [3260] [3266]
---------------------------------------------------
> I'll be running the BC picks similar to how
>Tom did the PIC9. Here's the rules for the pool.
>Rules 1,2&6 are cast in stone. The other selection
>rules are open for discussion if someone has an
>idea on how to improve them.
Whoops. My request for clarification probably went out the
same time as your post was coming in. Sorry to badger you, Cal!
>don't have a total yet, but hopefully we can go at
>least two deep in each of the races. The Thursday
This should be no problem. Two deep in each race is 2^6, or 64
combinations = 128 dollars. In fact, if we raise $1000, we can
easily bet 5/4/3/2/2/2 -- 5 deep in one race, 4 deep in another,
3 deep in a third, and 2 deep in the rest.
> Most likely, we will
>not be able to be the exact amount collected. The
>excess money will be made as a win bet on the horse
>given the highest weighting by the partners.
Suggested alternative: instead of betting the remainder as a
win bet, why not buy a separate Pic6 ticket that has all singles
except for one race, which has "all"? For instance, if there are
$10 left over, and there are 10 horses in the Classic, we can bet
a 1/1/1/1/1/all, except we'll use the horses we actually want as
the singles, instead of 1's. That way, we're keeping our Pic6
money in the Pic6 pool instead of the win pool.
Good luck to us!
===============================================================
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
===============================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:33:07.69
From: IN%"RBDN74A@prodigy.com"
From: RBDN74A@prodigy.com
Subject: PICK 6 Pool [3260] [3264]
---------------------------------------------------
I'm surprised I haven't even seen the suggestion of the winnings from
hitting this Pick 6 being used for the next VOP horse! Unless I've
missed someone's post.
We may win enough for a few new horses! :)
Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:33:03.79
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Pic 6 / Itsy race [3261]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal,
Not to be pushy, but what are the official rules and minimums? I
might be persuaded to play above the $5 level after all.
Yay! Itsy's racing tomorrow. Even better, it's after work (Eastern
Time), so I can see the race. (4:20 CDT). Looks like some old foes
are in there with us.
===============================================================
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
===============================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:32:59.83
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: PICK 6 Pool [3260]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I'll be running the BC picks similar to how
Tom did the PIC9. Here's the rules for the pool.
Rules 1,2&6 are cast in stone. The other selection
rules are open for discussion if someone has an
idea on how to improve them.
#1. It's two weeks until the Breeder's Cup so everyone
should have plenty of time to get a check to me. I'll
accept credit only in extreme cases. There's no minimum
or maximum, but please make your buy-in in whole dollar
amounts. (i.e. no buying in for $82.17) Make your
checks payable to me and send them to: 4491 Thornbark
Drive, Hoffman Estates, IL 60195. I'll post the list
of players as the money arrives so you'll know I got
your check. Also mark your check for the pic6 pool so
I won't confuse it with a cash call check.
#2. The BC past performances are typically out two days
before the races. This should give everyone enough time
to handicap the races and email me their picks. Entries
close at 6AM the morning of the Breeder's Cup. I'll be
off to the track shortly after that and you're input
won't be used. You are not required to pick the races
if you don't want. Send in your money and a crack team
of VOP crackpots will take pot shots with your money.
#3. If you choose to pick horses, each selection must
be weighted by a dollar amount. The total amount of
dollars used for the picks must be your buy-in. You
are not required to pick all the races, use your money
where you have an opinion.
#4. A summary of all horses selected and their respective
weightings will be taken to the track where the final
selections will be made based on weightings assigned
and what-ever best fit algorithm can be applied. I
don't have a total yet, but hopefully we can go at
least two deep in each of the races. The Thursday
before the BC, I'll announce a time and meeting place
at Hawthorne where all interested parties can attend
and possibly participate in the final selections. It
wasn't too crazy for the pic 9, but we were a little
rushed at the end. I plan to start this early and
have all the email picks totaled before getting to
the track to expidite the process.
#5. I will be the final judge on the ticket to be
bought. I'll try to include as much input as I can,
but we need cut-offs somewhere. Most likely, we will
not be able to be the exact amount collected. The
excess money will be made as a win bet on the horse
given the highest weighting by the partners. If a
partner is willing and available, I'll call after
the ticket has been purchased and the selections
can be posted to the list.
#6. Any winning ticket(s) which would require the
attention of the IRS will not be cashed until our
accountant advises us on the proper way to report
and collect the winnings.
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:32:56.04
From: IN%"tonyn@pinenet.com"
From: tonyn@pinenet.com
Subject: Pic6 [3259]
---------------------------------------------------
Hello all VOP'ers, That's sparked my interest, I'd like to drop $50 on
it. Where should the money go and is there any problems with this.TN
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:32:51.97
From: IN%"louisem@future.dsc.dalsys.com"
From: louisem@future.dsc.dalsys.com
Subject: Re: Fearless Leader Accepts Pick 6 Challenge [3226] [3258]
---------------------------------------------------
Pacheco, Joe wrote:
> suggest that you let Cal know how much you are sending so he can plan
> our Pick 6 strategy. I'm sure Cal would appreciate any assistance in
> coordinating our wager (I'm sure we will all have our own input for
> Cal). Below is the current list of those interested:
> Tom C, Cal, Joe P, Al W., Mark A, Darrell B, Bob P, Steve L, ap
> Jim, Cary A, Lynn C, Kent S, Robert H, Gary L, Jen R, Eric D, Rich B
> Sean, Brian B, Karen, Joe C, Ed B, Drew I, Dan N and Louise M
Put me in for $25. As for which horses to pick. I'm just a beginner so
I'll leave it up to y'all, oops, you guys, err, all of you (that
Texas/NJ history bleeds through sometimes).
Louise
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:32:46.54
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: VOP list problems [3251] [3257]
---------------------------------------------------
Ken,
I haven't gotten stable mail either but Mike White since explained in his
post.
I have been able to post.
ap
At 12:18 AM 10/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I just checked out the recent list messages on the VOP website, and
>indeed I missed receiving a few messages, including one from Mike W.
>about a spam attack.
>
>Y'all might have missed some things the same as I did. For example,
>there is a message with Dale's reaction to StableMail on Itbaya (I didn't
>see the StableMail itself, either), and a note from Falstaffguy with
>"More on Sam".
>
>Ken G.
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:32:39.84
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: FW: Test Message, Please Ignore [3255]
---------------------------------------------------
Mike,
Come in Tokyo!
Joe P
>----------
>From: Mike White[SMTP:mwhite@bsu.edu]
>Sent: Monday, October 20, 1997 11:26 PM
>To: Pacheco, Joe
>Subject: Re: Itbaya [3161] [3164] [3169] [3172] [3178]
>
>OK, Joe give it a try again, it sent the subscribe request to me. It
>appears that your mailier puts the domain as exsc01.exch.eds but I can't
>verify it with eds's nameserver. If you do get through you'll probably
>get two messages in return - let me know and I'll take out the other one
>(unless you like to get double mailings)
>
>Mike
>cc high-stakes-gambler-files
>
>Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>> I just figured out the problem. You are in cahoots with the Clinton
>> Administration trying to rob me of my right of free speech! All
>> partners that look, sound, or smell like they are Republicans have had
>>
>> their mail re-routed to the bowels of the White house to be reviewed
>> by
>> a hord of Clinton aides and IRS agents. I bet thats why Cal got
>> audited! You cad!
>> Joe P
>> cc. G. Gordon Liddy
>> Oliver North
>> Great Pumkin
>>
>> >----------
>> >From: Michael E. White[SMTP:00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu]
>> >Sent: Monday, October 20, 1997 5:05 PM
>> >To: Pacheco, Joe
>> >Subject: RE: Itbaya [3161] [3164] [3169] [3172] [3178]
>> >
>> >Joe send a message to: mailserv@vop.org
>> >in the body put:
>> >
>> >subscribe virtual-owners
>> >
>> >
>> >This will subscribe you using the mail routing info your mailier
>> provides
>> >vs the generic name I used when I subscribed you. The problem now is
>> that
>> >the software saying your address doesn't match on file so the message
>> is
>> >rejected. Lets see if a re-subscribe will fix it.
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > . , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
>> > |\/| Ball State University / University Computing
>> Services
>> > /bb "\.
>> > / _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not included.
>> >'\ Action figures sold separately.
>> > ~~ \
>> >
>> >On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>> >
>> >> Mike,
>> >> It blew up again. Below is the text of the message:
>> >>
>> >> This report relates to a message you sent with the following header
>>
>> >> fields:
>> >>
>> >> Message-id:
>> >>
>> > >> .exch.eds.com>
>> >> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:19:04 -0500
>> >> From: "Pacheco, Joe"
>> >> To: "'Michael E. White'" <00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu>
>> >> Subject: RE: Itbaya [3161] [3164] [3169] [3172] [3178]
>> >>
>> >> Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:
>> >>
>> >> Recipient address: virtual-owners-expand@PROCESS.BSU.EDU
>> >> Reason: you are not allowed to use this list:
>> >> virtual-owners-expand@PROCESS.BSU.EDU
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >----------
>> >> >From: Michael E. White[SMTP:00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu]
>> >> >Sent: Monday, October 20, 1997 4:14 PM
>> >> >To: Pacheco, Joe
>> >> >Subject: RE: Itbaya [3161] [3164] [3169] [3172] [3178]
>> >> >
>> >> >Joe try again. I'm not sure who WHQ01/MSUSPLH4 is, but I'm
>> assuming it
>> >> >that account with the corrupt mailbag.
>> >> >
>> >> >Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> > . , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
>> >> > |\/| Ball State University / University Computing
>> Services
>> >> > /bb "\.
>> >> > / _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not
>> included.
>> >> >'\ Action figures sold separately.
>> >> > ~~ \
>> >> >
>> >> >On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Mike,
>> >> >> Mail I send to the post keeps coming back. below are the error
>> >> >> messages:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> [005] The mail retry count was exceeded sending to
>> WHQ01/MSUSPLH4.
>> >> >> [014] Unable to deliver user mail due to a corrupt mailbag
>> >> >>
>> >> >> BTW, whoa are you calling a corrupt mailbag?
>> >> >> Joe P
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >----------
>> >> >> >From: Michael E. White[SMTP:00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu]
>> >> >> >Sent: Friday, October 17, 1997 6:35 PM
>> >> >> >To: virtual-owners
>> >> >> >Subject: Re: Itbaya [3161] [3164] [3169] [3172] [3178]
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, John K Martynus wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Michael E. White wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Well all I can say is I've got two win photo's on my wall
>> and they
>> >> >>both
>> >> >> >> > say 1 mile. Two with Shane up and one with Mark up. Though
>> I'm for
>> >>the
>> >> >> >> > soft spots I think 1 mail is her distance.
>> >> >> >> > But I think the secret is getting saddle cloth #5, #6, or
>> #9.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Hmmm...my first Itbaya win photo says 1 1/16 mi with a time
>> of 1:49.3
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >That's correct, three all together 1 @ 1-1/16 and 2 @ 1 mile.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> John K. Martynus JK-Martynus@govst.edu
>> >>shorts@interaccess.com
>> >> >> >> "Of course I left her a tip.Crazy Horse in the 5th at
>> Aqueduct"-Leroy
>> >> >> >>Lockhorn
>> >> >> >> "Sometimes I wish I knew what was going on here." --Henry
>> Blake
>> >> >> >> "I'm not drunk. I'm sobriety challenged."
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >--
>> >> >> > . , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
>> >> >> > |\/| Ball State University / University Computing
>> Services
>> >> >> > /bb "\.
>> >> >> > / _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not
>> included.
>> >> >> >'\ Action figures sold separately.
>> >> >> > ~~ \
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>--
> . , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
> |\/| Ball State University / University Computing Services
> /bb "\.
> / _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not included.
>'\ Action figures sold separately.
> ~~ \
>
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:32:35.71
From: IN%"00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu" "Michael E. White"
From: 00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Subject: routeing test - again - ignore [3254]
---------------------------------------------------
--
. , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
|\/| Ball State University / University Computing Services
/bb "\.
/ _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not included.
'\ Action figures sold separately.
~~ \
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:32:29.69
From: IN%"00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu" "Michael E. White"
From: 00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Subject: Mailing List Problems [3253]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Sorry about the problems but I have no choice but to tighten the security
screws on all the systems I maintain. It seems someone (none of you I'm
sure) has posted to some spam newsgroup or the such that machines on
BSU's campus allow what is called pass-through routing. Which means you
can send messages to the mail software and have it send the messages(s) on
to the finial destination. Which when used correctly is not a problem
per'say. But these people were sending thousands of spam messages and
forging the headers as though the orgin was from BSU. The overload of all
the invalid messages (bad address etc) about 100,000 in all caused the
mail delivery system to come to a crawl and had to be shutdown to be
cleaned up.
This started to happen again today but I caught it before it got out of
hand luckly.
Hence, I've had to apply strict mailing configuration rules. This has
caused some problems with some of you not being able to post. And it's
also preventing StableMail from sending to the list (I'll have to figure
out a way for those messages to pass but without our mail being sent to
stablemail - I'm sure they're not intersted in VOP stuff).
If any of you are having problems posting please write me back and we'll
work out the kinks.
Mike
--
. , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
|\/| Ball State University / University Computing Services
/bb "\.
/ _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not included.
'\ Action figures sold separately.
~~ \
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:32:23.00
From: IN%"mwhite@bsu.edu" "Mike White"
From: mwhite@bsu.edu
Subject: Itbaya's Race [3252]
---------------------------------------------------
> 9TH RACE HAW OCTOBER 22ND - $2 EXACTA / $2 TRIFECTA
> ==========================
>
> 1 MILE TURF; CLAIMING $14,000; PURSE $11,000; $3,960 added IOA.
> FOR FILLIES AND MARES, THREE YEARS OLD AND UPWARD . Three Year
> Olds, 118 lbs. Older, 122 lbs. Non-winners of two races at a
> mile or over since September 22, 1997, allowed, 3 lbs. Once, 5
> lbs. 2 such races in 1997, 7 lbs. Once, 9 lbs. CLAIMING PRICE
> $14,000. (Claiming races for $12,500 or less not considered.)
>
> PROGRAM SELECTIONS: 9 - 2 - 1
>
> # HORSE NAME ML JOCKEY WT TRAINER
>
> MED EQP
> -- ---------- -- ------ -- -------
>
> --- ---
> 1 BET SHE WINS 9/2 GOMEZ G 113 VINCI C J
>
> L
> 2 SONG SONG SING 4/1 MEIER R 113 HOUGHTON R D
>
> L
> 3 EASY DATA 20/1 CHAVEZ D 110* PRADO A
>
> L
> 4 NAVAJO MOVE 6/1 SILVA C 117 GONZALEZ J L
>
> L
> 5 PLAINSWOMEN 20/1 LASALA J 115 HILD G L
>
> L
> 6 A DERBY DAY WEDD 12/1 SIBILLE R 113 DORRIS T
>
> L
> 7 ANNAPOLIS FAN 8/1 RAZO A 117 REAVIS M L
>
> L
> 8 TRICKY TRUMP 12/1 VALOVICH C J 119 ANDERSON D
>
> L
> 9 ITBAYA 5/2 GUIDRY M 119 DAVIS L P
>
> L
> 10 MONIQUE MYSTIQUE 15/1 CAMPBELL J 113 DARRUS T
>
> L
> 11 BABY GATO SOL 30/1 RETANA G 113 INMAN P
>
> L
> 12 WOMANWITHANATTITUD 15/1 SCHAEFER G A 113 HOLAS S S
>
> L
>
--
. , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
|\/| Ball State University / University Computing Services
/bb "\.
/ _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not included.
'\ Action figures sold separately.
~~ \
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:32:16.30
From: IN%"kgrace@injersey.com" "Ken Grace"
From: kgrace@injersey.com
Subject: VOP list problems [3251]
---------------------------------------------------
I just checked out the recent list messages on the VOP website, and
indeed I missed receiving a few messages, including one from Mike W.
about a spam attack.
Y'all might have missed some things the same as I did. For example,
there is a message with Dale's reaction to StableMail on Itbaya (I didn't
see the StableMail itself, either), and a note from Falstaffguy with
"More on Sam".
Ken G.
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:32:10.22
From: IN%"kgrace@injersey.com" "Ken Grace"
From: kgrace@injersey.com
Subject: Itsy Racing [3250]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPsters,
I don't know whether there's something wrong with my service provider or
perhaps some messages didn't get forwarded by the VOP list. But I got
nothing via the list about Itsy being in a race this week, not even the
usual forwarded automated thingy from the Daily Racing Form. Thanks to
Dale's reply to Terry's off-list email, I was alerted that something was
going on.
Anyhow, by checking with Equibase, I find that Itbaya is entered in the
9th at Hawthorne on Wednesday, Oct. 22. Comments? Allan, what are her
prospects?
Ken G.
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:32:04.17
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Itsy [3240] [3247] [3248]
---------------------------------------------------
At 10:57 PM 10/20/97 -0700, Ken Grace wrote:
>Am I missing something here? Did Mike's screwing around with the mailer
>cause me to miss an important message? What are you talking about, Dale?
>
Probably.
I sent a message from work bzzzzzzzt!'ing Dale on his "ask and ye shall
receive" because Itbaya drew most of the horses Dale was hoping to avoid
in the $18,000 ranks.
I'd bet that message bounced for coming from a non-subscriber.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:31:58.77
From: IN%"kgrace@injersey.com" "Ken Grace"
From: kgrace@injersey.com
Subject: Re: Itsy [3240] [3247]
---------------------------------------------------
Dale E. Herman wrote:
> I asked to avoid Rita Rucker (Tribune chart didn't show the claim), Song
> Song Sing and Myrtle's Music. Two out of three ain't bad. Song Song Sing
> and Bet She Wins are coming back on seven days rest. We'll see how fresh
> they are. Navajo Move was a one race wonder - you read it here first.
>
> Hoping Liane is right about Itsy being ready after only two weeks and
> busy knitting a sweater for Itsy...
>
> Dale H.
>
> BTW, I'm 99.9% sure this was a pure Liane move and even Cal was surprised
> today. No one carried my lobbying from last week to Liane.
Am I missing something here? Did Mike's screwing around with the mailer
cause me to miss an important message? What are you talking about, Dale?
Ken G.
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:31:52.68
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: PAPPYS NEXT [3246]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal,
Has pappy worked in the last month?
I can't see how she'll do a mile race with a 5f work 6 or 7 weeks ago.
IF the race on 10-29 is a mile! I don't have the book.
Whats the plan here?
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:31:47.48
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: The pick 6 [3242] [3243] [3244]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_SMeixDX5N2+8kBr/BTQqfA]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Lynn/all,
I will be posting KOD selections for each of the seven
breeders cup races.......I will be submiting my----turf mile and turf
classic recommondations-----to Cal ONLY for his inclusion in OUR pick 6
ticket---that way if chooses to modify my recommondations there are no
hard feelings....I am in it for a hundred whaether or not Cal takes my
suggestions.....I trust him as MP....I'll trust him with my c-note
anytime.
Allan
ps......ED you can take my top selections in each of the seven races for
my hat ENTRY....ps I am gonna win that hat or die trying
--Boundary_[ID_SMeixDX5N2+8kBr/BTQqfA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 18:43:00 -0400
From: Chris & Lynn Cronin
Subject: Re: The pick 6 [3242] [3243]
To: Allan Weston
Cc: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Message-id: <344BDE74.2FCC@voyager.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
References: <199710202240.PAA08112@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Allan, PLEASE give us the KOD for the whole 6 races...you seem to do
pretty darn well, and I love hearing how many different ways you can say
"toss"
"tossarooski"
"tosssssss"
"noooooo....tosssss"
"tosski"
"tossola"
"tossaroo"
Lynn..................................
--Boundary_[ID_SMeixDX5N2+8kBr/BTQqfA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:31:42.01
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: The pick 6 [3242]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal/Tom/Joe/all,
There is no reason for complicated rules or the
such for such.
Here are the Weston rules for he Pick 6:
1. Since Cal has taken the responsibilty of taking our money and making
sure that all the bets are placed (a massive job)....He should be the
FINAL judge of what horses the syndicate selects (or doesn't)
2. EVERYONE who is in the snyidicate gets to submit selections to
CAL...if they want to.
3. NO MINIMUM OR MAXIMUM on the level of money needed to
participate....every dollar helps...IE the more money we have the more
combos we can cover the greater chances of winning.......(even drew and
his 5 bucks)
4. Tom's claim of it almost being a lotto.....I can't speak for TOM only
MYSELF.......I have NEVER hit the lotto.....but I have hit the PICK 6
twice *for modest sums" and have hit 5 of6 on numerous occations......I
fully expect to hit this pick 6....the way I approach horse handicapping
and betting Is that I am gonna win.
5. I myself will submit selections for only two races.....the mile
turf.......and the turf classic
These are the races I will be highly confident in
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:31:36.59
From: IN%"mew@infocom.com" "Mike White"
From: mew@infocom.com
Subject: mail route test - excernal [3239]
---------------------------------------------------
test
VOP MAIL PAGE
21-OCT-1997 13:31:28.42
From: IN%"mew@infocom.com" "Mike White"
From: mew@infocom.com
Subject: testing again - mapping/routing [3238]
---------------------------------------------------
test
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 16:05:12.79
From: IN%"mew@infocom.com" "Mike White"
From: mew@infocom.com
Subject: mapping test - ignore [3237]
---------------------------------------------------
]
testing
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 15:48:41.47
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: More on Sam [3236]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPers,
Just got off the phone with the Sam Houstom racing sec office. They said
that this year they WILL BE running the turf the whole meet whereas last
season they had no turf racing in January. Still looking at probably 1 turfer
a day with the occassional 2 a day. I was also told this time that purses
would be on the order of $80-85K per day. For comparison last season was
about $65k per day. A bit more money but still a far cry from the big boys.
So let the debate continue with this info and the list of last years turfers.
I of course still support sending Nat to Sam if VOP decides to send
Unsold.
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 14:55:51.90
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: StableMail -- Itbaya [3235]
---------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Daily Racing Form wrote:
> are receiving this message because Itbaya is entered to run
> Claiming Price for Itbaya (if applicable): 14,000
> Surface: Turf
> Distance: 1 Mile
> Jockey: Guidry M
Ask and yee shall receive, I guess. Next, I want a 34 foot Catalina
sailboat for $12.00.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 12:22:37.60
From: IN%"00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu" "Michael E. White"
From: 00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Subject: mail routing and mailing list changes & testing [3234]
---------------------------------------------------
I'm making changes in the mail configuration. Due to a spam attack on our
systems here at BSU. These changes will prevent unauthorized mail routing.
While these mail routing restrictions are good they may very well screw up
the way the mailing list is handled.
Would one or two of you send a test message to the list to see if you get
through or get an error.
If you get an error forward the error directly to me
00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu so I can try and resolve the problem. Thanks.
Mike
P.S. Along with the general routing change it will only allow list members
to post as well. (Terry we need to take off the vop list address from the
web pages as they are updated).
--
. , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
|\/| Ball State University / University Computing Services
/bb "\.
/ _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not included.
'\ Action figures sold separately.
~~ \
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 11:19:14.51
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: September numbers [3228] [3231]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 20, 10:14am, Terry Bjork wrote:
> Subject: re: September numbers [3228]
>
> Cal wrote:
>
> >Sorry for being late on getting this out, but I forgot
> >to pick up an account statement from the horseman's book-
> >keeper last week.
>
> Did we ever find out whether or not we got any of that underpayment
> amount that HAW was supposed to distribute against Fall '95 earnings?
>
> Just curious as to how much it might have been.
>
Yes. Itbaya got an extra $400 or so. It
will show up in the October numbers.
Cal
> Terry
>
>-- End of excerpt from Terry Bjork
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 10:48:32.61
From: IN%"smyrick@concentric.net"
From: smyrick@concentric.net
Subject: Re: Itsy's win / By for now [3229]
---------------------------------------------------
Tom Channic wrote:
> Drew wrote:
> >
> > Larry didn't show up at the track,
> > Joe didn't wager on Itsy, and
> > Allan didn't wear his VOP shirt.
> >
> > Which of these things (or which combination of them) is
> > the true jinx?
> >
This seems like a good spot to do something I've been putting off too
long.
It's quite obvious that the end of the jinx is due to the sale of my
share of Itbaya. Weeks before the wonderful victory, I completed a
very amicable agreement with Debby Derlacky. Free of the burdensome
weight that goes with my ownership, Itsy promptly went returned to
the winners' circle.
I can truthfully say my heart soared with all the rest of you when I
saw the news, and I'll be following Itsy and VOP with interest. The
circumstances of the sale had nothing to do with any dissatisfaction
with the outfit. I've had my disagreements, but on balance found the
whole experience some of the most fun I've ever had with racing. The
problem here is that neither of the tracks simulcast the Chicago
races this year. It's pure torture not being able to see (and
occaisionally bet) Itsy's races.
So this is Goodbye, with many regrets, to all my VOPster friends.
If there are no regulations against it, I'll stay on the mailing list
so I can keep up with the news. Some day, if the simulcasting Gods
get their act straightened out, I might be back in the partnership .
In the meantime, you should have no shortage of good luck now that
I'm officially out of the ownership picture.
Thanks again to everyone. If you're ever in New England drop me a
note, we'll find a good excuse to get to the track.
Steve Myrick
Steve Myrick
smyrick@concentric.net
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 10:16:29.59
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: re: September numbers [3228]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal wrote:
>Sorry for being late on getting this out, but I forgot
>to pick up an account statement from the horseman's book-
>keeper last week.
Did we ever find out whether or not we got any of that underpayment
amount that HAW was supposed to distribute against Fall '95 earnings?
Just curious as to how much it might have been.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 09:49:40.97
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: Dignify Wins [3227]
---------------------------------------------------
Unsold's foe Dignify won the 3rd race at Keeneland on Sunday. He won a $30k
starter allowance going 1 1/4 on the dirt. He drew off to win by seven
lengths. Not too shabby. Win bet returned $18.40.
-Mike Sasso-
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 09:40:29.73
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Fearless Leader Accepts Pick 6 Challenge [3226]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Once again our fearless leader has stepped forth and accepted the
challenge. Cal has kindly volunteered to coordinate the Pick 6 wager.
The list stands at 26 with the addition of Dan N and Louise M. I
suggest that we get our checks in to Cal as soon as possible. I also
suggest that you let Cal know how much you are sending so he can plan
our Pick 6 strategy. I'm sure Cal would appreciate any assistance in
coordinating our wager (I'm sure we will all have our own input for
Cal). Below is the current list of those interested:
Tom C, Cal, Joe P, Al W., Mark A, Darrell B, Bob P, Steve L, ap
Jim, Cary A, Lynn C, Kent S, Robert H, Gary L, Jen R, Eric D, Rich B
Sean, Brian B, Karen, Joe C, Ed B, Drew I, Dan N and Louise M
Cal put me in for $50. The checks in the mail.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 09:26:18.02
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: Pick 6 Status [3222] [3225]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 20, 8:55am, Pacheco, Joe wrote:
> Subject: Pick 6 Status [3222]
> Y'all,
> The list stands at 24:
>
> Tom C, Cal, Joe P, Al W., Mark A, Darrell B, Bob P, Steve L, ap
> Jim, Cary A, Lynn C, Kent S, Robert H, Gary L, Jen R, Eric D, Rich B
> Sean, Brian B, Karen, Joe C, Ed B, Drew I
>
> Please review the list to make sure your name is on the list (It was a
> long weekend). Also, we need to think about getting our checks in for
> the wager. Any volunteers to handle the money and the bet?
Tom Channic did it last time and if he doesn't want the
hassle again, I'll do it.
Cal
> Joe P
>
>-- End of excerpt from Pacheco, Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 09:18:54.57
From: IN%"louisem@future.dsc.dalsys.com"
From: louisem@future.dsc.dalsys.com
Subject: Re: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3223] [3224]
---------------------------------------------------
Count me in too
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 09:06:50.83
From: IN%"dan.m.neurock@ac.com" "dan.m.neurock"
From: dan.m.neurock@ac.com
Subject: RE: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3223]
---------------------------------------------------
Count me in.
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 08:59:45.98
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Pick 6 Status [3222]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
The list stands at 24:
Tom C, Cal, Joe P, Al W., Mark A, Darrell B, Bob P, Steve L, ap
Jim, Cary A, Lynn C, Kent S, Robert H, Gary L, Jen R, Eric D, Rich B
Sean, Brian B, Karen, Joe C, Ed B, Drew I
Please review the list to make sure your name is on the list (It was a
long weekend). Also, we need to think about getting our checks in for
the wager. Any volunteers to handle the money and the bet?
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 07:13:57.30
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: FW: Breeder's Cup Contest [3142] [3151] [3166] [3168] [3180] [3219]
---------------------------------------------------
>I'm interested. Can I play for as little as $25?
I hope so, because I want in for just $5, cheapskate
that I am.
===============================================================
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
===============================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
20-OCT-1997 05:51:16.76
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: September Numbers [3218]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Sorry for being late on getting this out, but I forgot
to pick up an account statement from the horseman's book-
keeper last week. I remembered it this week, so here 'tis.
No big surprises, Paparouna's vet bill is a bit high due to
all of the allergy treatments and Unsold's is a bit high due
to all the work done on his ankles.
Cal
-------------------------------------------------------------
Sep-97 Expense and Income for VOP
Paparouna Itbaya Kristy
Start Balance $1,245.70 $2,832.70 $2,079.98
Training $1,500.00 $1,568.00 $1,425.00
Vet $464.00 $97.00 $184.00
Jockey $50.00 $63.25 $0.00
Shipping $0.00 $0.00 $0.00
Photos $0.00 $0.00 $0.00
Other $25.76 $89.01 $25.76
Horse $0.00 $0.00 $0.00
Total Expenses $2,039.76 $1,817.26 $1,634.76
Purse $600.00 $1,265.00 $0.00
Cash Call $1,000.00 $0.00 $1,000.00
Total Income $1,600.00 $1,265.00 $1,000.00
End Balance $805.94 $2,280.44 $1,445.22
Lady Lomond Unsold Dance Naturally
Start Balance $821.97 $1,869.63 $283.41
Training $1,496.00 $1,702.00 $1,425.00
Vet $187.00 $427.00 $136.00
Jockey $80.00 $110.50 $0.00
Shipping $0.00 $0.00 $0.00
Photos $0.00 $0.00 $0.00
Other $57.11 $149.26 $25.76
Horse $0.00 $0.00 $0.00
Total Expenses $1,820.11 $2,388.76 $1,586.76
Purse $627.00 $2,470.00 $0.00
Cash Call $1,800.00 $0.00 $1,800.00
Total Income $2,427.00 $2,470.00 $1,800.00
End Balance $1,428.86 $1,950.87 $496.65
VOP MAIL PAGE
19-OCT-1997 16:32:23.66
From: IN%"Sunwalker@warpnet.net" "Sunwalker Ostrich Ranch"
From: Sunwalker@warpnet.net
Subject: RE: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181] [3217]
---------------------------------------------------
Count me in for $25. I'll send an ostrich
feather to wave over the tickets for luck. ;)
Ed "Voodoo" Blair
----------
From: Pacheco, Joe[SMTP:joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com]
Sent: Friday, October 17, 1997 9:02 PM
To: 'virtual-owners@vop.org'
Subject: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181]
Y'all,
Here is a list of the partners interested in the Pick 6:
Cal
Joe P
Tom C
Big Al
Mark A.
Bob P.
Darrell B
Anybody else interested, just add yourself to the list.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
19-OCT-1997 09:07:02.58
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Mich. Sire Stakes [3215] [3216]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_E/WkwouMQ/nT7YXOzK66nQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Lynn/all.
Those prices are correct lots of people jumping off of
bridges near the motor city today....both Impy and Agiftfrom Bertie ran
out
so the show prices reflect that.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_E/WkwouMQ/nT7YXOzK66nQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:57:57 -0400
From: Chris & Lynn Cronin
Subject: Mich. Sire Stakes [3215]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Message-id: <344A11E5.14D3@voyager.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
>From the morning paper...can these prices be real??
9th race Sire S. 4 & up F/M-9 furlongs
Time 1:54.4
Pensive Princess 57.00 18.80 32.40!
Pair of Jeans 44.40 49.20!
Double Dani 53.00!
also: Jessie's Alibi, Impulsive Spender, Agiftfrombertie, Majesty's
Sunshine, Rapid Reaction, Imperial Bash, Ruby Ina Red Dress.
Trifecta: $9,434.20
At least Impy picked up a check. I wish I'd gone--would've probably
dropped a $2 show bet on Double Dani for our friend Dani. These 3 must
all have gone off at 99-1!!
Probably a typo.
Lynn
--Boundary_[ID_E/WkwouMQ/nT7YXOzK66nQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
19-OCT-1997 09:02:21.85
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: Mich. Sire Stakes [3215]
---------------------------------------------------
From the morning paper...can these prices be real??
9th race Sire S. 4 & up F/M-9 furlongs
Time 1:54.4
Pensive Princess 57.00 18.80 32.40!
Pair of Jeans 44.40 49.20!
Double Dani 53.00!
also: Jessie's Alibi, Impulsive Spender, Agiftfrombertie, Majesty's
Sunshine, Rapid Reaction, Imperial Bash, Ruby Ina Red Dress.
Trifecta: $9,434.20
At least Impy picked up a check. I wish I'd gone--would've probably
dropped a $2 show bet on Double Dani for our friend Dani. These 3 must
all have gone off at 99-1!!
Probably a typo.
Lynn
VOP MAIL PAGE
19-OCT-1997 08:56:09.60
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: stock contest [3214]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
In unrelated news, theres a fantasy stock market game that has you invest
in 8 stocks with 250k. There are many cash prizes with top prize of 100,000.
The cost is $99.00 to enter. I originally entered from a Chicago Trib. Ad.
Yes, Im in. It ends on Nov. 21. The next one starts Feb. 98
Their site is at
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
19-OCT-1997 08:47:41.41
From: IN%"RBDN74A@prodigy.com"
From: RBDN74A@prodigy.com
Subject: THE PICK 6 [3210] [3213]
---------------------------------------------------
Pick 6........ Count me in. Need to take a ride on Allan's
coattails!
Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
19-OCT-1997 08:33:12.06
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Pick-6 [3205] [3207] [3212]
---------------------------------------------------
Does anyone know what past p-6's paid?
just wondering.
ap
At 06:23 PM 10/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-10-18 16:57:14 EDT, you write:
>
><< I'm not an offical partner yet...Still on the Waiting list but if you need
> another C-Note in the pick 6...I'd be glad to donate...
> The DayDreamer,...Rich B.
> >>
>
>Rich....you'll have no trouble fitting in VOP!!!
>
>Sean
>
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
19-OCT-1997 08:16:24.54
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Pick 6 at 21 [3211]
---------------------------------------------------
The list stands at 21:
Tom C
Cal
Joe P
Al W.
Mark A
Darrell B
Bob P
Steve L
ap
Jim
Cary A
Lynn C
Kent S
Robert H
Gary L
Jen R
Eric D
Rich B
Sean
Brian B
Karen
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 23:33:49.89
From: IN%"quiltera2@webtv.net"
From: quiltera2@webtv.net
Subject: THE PICK 6 [3210]
---------------------------------------------------
Hello
I Want in also.
Karen
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 18:49:56.53
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Pick 6 Interest Grows [3209]
---------------------------------------------------
The list grows to 19:
Tom C
Cal
Joe P
Al W.
Mark A
Darrell B
Bob P
Steve L
ap
Jim
Cary A
Lynn C
Kent S
Robert H
Gary L
Jen R
Eric D
Rich B
Sean
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 17:29:35.11
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Pick-6 [3205] [3207] [3208]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_PsKCHzpCL33ZC4j/k3uLbw]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Sean/all,
Got that right!
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_PsKCHzpCL33ZC4j/k3uLbw]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:23:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pick-6 [3205] [3207]
To: Rich4544@concentric.net, virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <971018182340_-1797121770@emout02.mail.aol.com>
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
In a message dated 97-10-18 16:57:14 EDT, you write:
<< I'm not an offical partner yet...Still on the Waiting list but if you need
another C-Note in the pick 6...I'd be glad to donate...
The DayDreamer,...Rich B.
>>
Rich....you'll have no trouble fitting in VOP!!!
Sean
--Boundary_[ID_PsKCHzpCL33ZC4j/k3uLbw]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 17:26:49.41
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pick-6 [3205] [3207]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-18 16:57:14 EDT, you write:
<< I'm not an offical partner yet...Still on the Waiting list but if you need
another C-Note in the pick 6...I'd be glad to donate...
The DayDreamer,...Rich B.
>>
Rich....you'll have no trouble fitting in VOP!!!
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 17:16:59.58
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: FW: Breeder's Cup Contest [3142] [3151] [3166] [3168] [3175] [3206]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-17 18:33:17 EDT, you write:
<< The Breeder's Cup is now a PIC6. They moved
one of the filly races to the first on the card and made the
pick from 2->7.
I would certainly be up for doing this again and
kicking in a few dollars.
Cal >>
I'm down too...
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 15:59:49.53
From: IN%"Rich4544@concentric.net" "Richard R. Buettner"
From: Rich4544@concentric.net
Subject: Pick-6 [3205]
---------------------------------------------------
I'm not an offical partner yet...Still on the Waiting list but if you need
another C-Note in the pick 6...I'd be glad to donate...
The DayDreamer,...Rich B.
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 15:49:48.01
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: More Sam research [3203] [3204]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_l1nXlqu1DqO9wDBU33lvKA]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Darrell,
You're a good man< charlie Brown....If you keep this up I
might have to promote you to the "third".....Many thanks for the
research....I am sure it will help in our descion.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_l1nXlqu1DqO9wDBU33lvKA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:01:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Re: More Sam research [3203]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <971018150020_-1126035897@emout17.mail.aol.com>
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
In a message dated 97-10-17 18:19:37 EDT, Falstafguy writes:
<< Subj: More Sam research
Date: 97-10-17 18:19:37 EDT
From: Falstafguy
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
VOPers,
Did more research on last year's Sam Houston turf racing. They ran a
little different schedule last year as they took 2 weeks off around Christmas
and New Years and resumed racing January 8th. They went on to race til the
end of April. The dates for this year Nov 28th-April 5th will not include any
big break at the holidays.
First to mention about last season is that apparently there was No turf
races run in January from the 8th until the 30th. After that they seemed to
resume the pattern of 1 turf race a day with an occassional 2 turf race day.
I will also point out that this came out of the Houston Chronicle so some
conditions or claiming prices may not have been printed.
I have a call in to the racing sec at Sam, hoping for a return call
today about this coming season's turf racing including if there will be
January turf racing.
The list of Flash possibles follows. It includes races from the previous
post and final times from the races I looked up today.
12-1 1 1/16 10k claimer purse $5400
12-7 1 1/8 allowance purse $10500
12-8 1 1/16 10k claimer purse$4800
12-12 1 1/8 allowance nw2 other than purse$8900
12-13 1 1/8 10k claimer purse$4800
1-31 1 1/16 allowance purse$10,700 time 1:45.3
2-2 1 1/16 starter allow. purse$5100 time 1:45.4
2-6 1 mile unknown claimer purse$9000
2-7 & 2-8 1 mile 10k claimer purse$5500
2-21 1 1/16 allowance purse$10700
2-22 1 mile allow n3L purse$9000
2-27 1 1/16 allowance purse$8200 time 1:48.3
3-2 1 1/16 10k claimer purse$4800 time 1:47.3
3-8 1 mile allow n4L purse$9700 time 1:39.4
3-19 1 1/16 20k n2L purse$6000 time 1:49.1
3-21 1 mile 16k claimer purse$6200 time 1:39.2
3-23 1 1/8 allowance purse$12700 time 1:51.4
3-26 1 1/16 16k claimer purse$6200 time 1:46.4
3-29 1 1/16 allowance nw3L purse$9000 time 1:47.2
3-29 another 10k claimer also
Darrell B tired of looking at microfilm >>
Sent this on Friday and it never made it to the list--trying again
Saturday afternoon
--Boundary_[ID_l1nXlqu1DqO9wDBU33lvKA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 14:04:10.62
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Re: More Sam research [3203]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-17 18:19:37 EDT, Falstafguy writes:
<< Subj: More Sam research
Date: 97-10-17 18:19:37 EDT
From: Falstafguy
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
VOPers,
Did more research on last year's Sam Houston turf racing. They ran a
little different schedule last year as they took 2 weeks off around Christmas
and New Years and resumed racing January 8th. They went on to race til the
end of April. The dates for this year Nov 28th-April 5th will not include any
big break at the holidays.
First to mention about last season is that apparently there was No turf
races run in January from the 8th until the 30th. After that they seemed to
resume the pattern of 1 turf race a day with an occassional 2 turf race day.
I will also point out that this came out of the Houston Chronicle so some
conditions or claiming prices may not have been printed.
I have a call in to the racing sec at Sam, hoping for a return call
today about this coming season's turf racing including if there will be
January turf racing.
The list of Flash possibles follows. It includes races from the previous
post and final times from the races I looked up today.
12-1 1 1/16 10k claimer purse $5400
12-7 1 1/8 allowance purse $10500
12-8 1 1/16 10k claimer purse$4800
12-12 1 1/8 allowance nw2 other than purse$8900
12-13 1 1/8 10k claimer purse$4800
1-31 1 1/16 allowance purse$10,700 time 1:45.3
2-2 1 1/16 starter allow. purse$5100 time 1:45.4
2-6 1 mile unknown claimer purse$9000
2-7 & 2-8 1 mile 10k claimer purse$5500
2-21 1 1/16 allowance purse$10700
2-22 1 mile allow n3L purse$9000
2-27 1 1/16 allowance purse$8200 time 1:48.3
3-2 1 1/16 10k claimer purse$4800 time 1:47.3
3-8 1 mile allow n4L purse$9700 time 1:39.4
3-19 1 1/16 20k n2L purse$6000 time 1:49.1
3-21 1 mile 16k claimer purse$6200 time 1:39.2
3-23 1 1/8 allowance purse$12700 time 1:51.4
3-26 1 1/16 16k claimer purse$6200 time 1:46.4
3-29 1 1/16 allowance nw3L purse$9000 time 1:47.2
3-29 another 10k claimer also
Darrell B tired of looking at microfilm >>
Sent this on Friday and it never made it to the list--trying again
Saturday afternoon
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 10:59:25.72
From: IN%"jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu" "Jen Roth"
From: jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181] [3197] [3202]
---------------------------------------------------
> >Cal
> >Joe P
> >Tom C
> >Big Al
> >Mark A.
> >Bob P.
> >Darrell B
I'm interested...
--
Jen Roth
jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu
Thank you for not dumping core.
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 10:51:08.72
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Breeders Cup Pick 6 Lives [3200] [3201]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_ILV7NwzQln89JQeIpr3Ilw]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Joe/all,
The best way is to have a main ticket with all of the
contenders selected. 80% of pooled money. The other 20% should go to the
angle/plausible longshot with main ticket contenders.......this way if a
longshot comes in....we won't be dead this will take a lot of time to
fill out the nessasary Pick 6 tickets I figure about 50 or so should get
the job done......It is tedious work....but the payoff will be well
worth our while
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_ILV7NwzQln89JQeIpr3Ilw]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:27:25 -0500
From: "Pacheco, Joe"
Subject: Breeders Cup Pick 6 Lives [3200]
To: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Y'all,
We have alot of interest in the Pic 6. Here's the list
Tom C.
Cal J.
Joe P
Al W.
Mark A
Darrell B
Bob P
Steve L
ap
Jim
Cary A
Lynn C
Kent S
Robert H
Gary L
Now we need to determine the logistic for the selctions. The guys that
handled the Pic 7 should jump in here. It might be good if we could
make the selections prior to the races so we all know where we stand.
Any thoughts from the experts?
Joe P
--Boundary_[ID_ILV7NwzQln89JQeIpr3Ilw]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 10:31:42.59
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Breeders Cup Pick 6 Lives [3200]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
We have alot of interest in the Pic 6. Here's the list
Tom C.
Cal J.
Joe P
Al W.
Mark A
Darrell B
Bob P
Steve L
ap
Jim
Cary A
Lynn C
Kent S
Robert H
Gary L
Now we need to determine the logistic for the selctions. The guys that
handled the Pic 7 should jump in here. It might be good if we could
make the selections prior to the races so we all know where we stand.
Any thoughts from the experts?
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 09:51:08.15
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Paparouna [3191] [3199]
---------------------------------------------------
I think Ed B. lived much closer to AP than Hawth. so we may not see as many
pap reports.
ap
At 11:09 PM 10/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Does anybody know if she worked this week? Ed B., where are ya?
>
> Bob P.
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 09:49:07.73
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: where's allen? [3147] [3198]
---------------------------------------------------
CJ, all,................
I got the scoop on allen's lack of posts the other day....................
Someone stole his period key! ;-).........................................
..................................wasn't me...............................
...............................
ap........................
At 12:51 AM 10/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Do you................. think............... when his mailbox is full
>(happens often -- prolly full.........................of periods.......)
>that then.................... he can't send.........................email?
;-)
>............................................................................
>............................................................................
>....................
>
>At 04:32 PM 10/16/97 -0500, mikep@ameritech.net wrote:
>>Does anyone know where allen is?..............
>>
>>4:30pm and not ONE message!.......................
>>
>>Someone out east better check............
>>
>>ap.....................;-)............
>>
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 09:06:54.00
From: IN%"oaklawn@apci.net" "Robert J. Hillebrand"
From: oaklawn@apci.net
Subject: Re: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181] [3197]
---------------------------------------------------
I'll throw in some money.
Bob Hillebrand
-----Original Message-----
From: Pacheco, Joe
To: 'virtual-owners@vop.org'
Date: Friday, October 17, 1997 8:53 PM
Subject: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181]
>Y'all,
>Here is a list of the partners interested in the Pick 6:
>
>Cal
>Joe P
>Tom C
>Big Al
>Mark A.
>Bob P.
>Darrell B
>
>Anybody else interested, just add yourself to the list.
>Joe P
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 09:01:43.74
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Pick 6 [3194] [3195] [3196]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_e5jivZQG73v1hqIwepat+A]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Kent,
I send a couple of my "boys" over to see you. Darrell "the
fourth" B. and "crazy" Joe P.
part of the Lone Star-Retema mob. Give them the loot in unmarked
twenties and a tip on the 8th at Hawthorne and no one gets hurt.
Don Allana
--Boundary_[ID_e5jivZQG73v1hqIwepat+A]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:35:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: KWSWPS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pick 6 [3194] [3195]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <971018093508_1993415599@emout14.mail.aol.com>
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
I'd like to participate (how do you collect the money?)
Kent Saunders
--Boundary_[ID_e5jivZQG73v1hqIwepat+A]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 08:38:16.50
From: IN%"KWSWPS@aol.com"
From: KWSWPS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pick 6 [3194] [3195]
---------------------------------------------------
I'd like to participate (how do you collect the money?)
Kent Saunders
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 07:52:51.71
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: Pick 6 [3194]
---------------------------------------------------
Shoot, why not? I'm in too for $25 or so.
Lynn
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 07:30:50.47
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: The Scoop: 10/16/97 [3154] [3158] [3183] [3193]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I don't know if Guidry is available for Paparouna.
Liane wants to keep some continuity with horse and rider
and since Gomez will be leaving for California at the start
of November and Guidry will be leaving for Louisianna after
the Breeder's Cup, we aren't going to have them available.
From the jocks that will be left until the end of the year,
Ray is a good choice.
I don't know the exact plans for Nat. Guidry was
the first call before, but he took the day off. Shane was
the replacement, but he got hurt. Ray filled in for most
of Shane's mounts the rest of the day. The last I had
heard, Guidry had first call.
Cal
----------
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Sent: Friday, October 17, 1997 10:27 PM
To: biggestal2@webtv.net; virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/16/97 [3154] [3158] [3183]
Cal:
If Guidry was available for Paparouna why must we
give the ride to Ray? Inquiring minds want to know?
Also is Liane going to let Ray ride Nat again on the
turf? Hell i'd rather see Kelly Sampson!
Sorry I just got back from the Hawks game, maybe
I have had one cold one to much. But I seriously would
like to see someone other than Ray on our horses.
Steve Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 06:43:28.72
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: where's allen? [3147] [3190] [3192]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_zrL50eLG4BI+sEgs/+pRXQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
AP,Chris/all,
Yes, I do post and use periods prolifically. As
I've told a few partners this is the way I think. Some people think (and
type) in full sentences, I don't. So I can do it. It is just exceddingly
difficult for me. I took me 5 minutes to type this.
Allan (the non-conformist)
--Boundary_[ID_zrL50eLG4BI+sEgs/+pRXQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:51:36 -0500
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com (Chris Jenner)
Subject: Re: where's allen? [3147] [3190]
X-Sender: chris.jenner@mail.tdata.com
To: mikep@ameritech.net, virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <3.0.32.19971017190606.00b0230c@mail.tdata.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Do you................. think............... when his mailbox is full
(happens often -- prolly full.........................of periods.......)
that then.................... he can't send.........................email? ;-)
............................................................................
............................................................................
....................
At 04:32 PM 10/16/97 -0500, mikep@ameritech.net wrote:
>Does anyone know where allen is?..............
>
>4:30pm and not ONE message!.......................
>
>Someone out east better check............
>
>ap.....................;-)............
>
--Boundary_[ID_zrL50eLG4BI+sEgs/+pRXQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 02:35:42.96
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Paparouna [3191]
---------------------------------------------------
Does anybody know if she worked this week? Ed B., where are ya?
Bob P.
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 00:42:28.45
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: where's allen? [3147] [3190]
---------------------------------------------------
Do you................. think............... when his mailbox is full
(happens often -- prolly full.........................of periods.......)
that then.................... he can't send.........................email? ;-)
............................................................................
............................................................................
....................
At 04:32 PM 10/16/97 -0500, mikep@ameritech.net wrote:
>Does anyone know where allen is?..............
>
>4:30pm and not ONE message!.......................
>
>Someone out east better check............
>
>ap.....................;-)............
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
18-OCT-1997 00:42:13.03
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: Trainer at Sam Houston [3146] [3189]
---------------------------------------------------
Joe, thanks for the efforts. Can anyone who's talked to Sirota confirm
whether he's officially declined interest in Wes?
At 04:08 PM 10/16/97 -0500, Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>Y'all,
>I've got the name and number of a trainer at Sam Houston, Gilbert
>Ciavaglia. He had 17 turf route starters with 4 wins (23.5%). He had a
>total of 82 starts last meet with 18 wins (22%). He is one of the top
>trainers at Sam Houston. I plan to contact him to discuss the
>possiblity of sending him the pud (high level stuff only). If it goes
>OK, I suggest we have Cal and/or Liane talk with him. This is just a
>"Fact Finding Mission", I'm not commiting dittlely swat (Thats sales
>ligo)! Does anybody know anything about Gilbert or have any suggestions
>on a particular question that should be asked?
>Joe P
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 22:59:04.12
From: IN%"arbourc@flash.net" "Cary Arbour"
From: arbourc@flash.net
Subject: Re: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181] [3188]
---------------------------------------------------
You can add me to the Pick 6 list also.
Cary A.
----------
> From: Pacheco, Joe
> To: 'virtual-owners@vop.org'
> Subject: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181]
> Date: Friday, October 17, 1997 9:02 PM
>
> Y'all,
> Here is a list of the partners interested in the Pick 6:
>
> Cal
> Joe P
> Tom C
> Big Al
> Mark A.
> Bob P.
> Darrell B
>
> Anybody else interested, just add yourself to the list.
> Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 22:47:17.22
From: IN%"RJVS65A@prodigy.com"
From: RJVS65A@prodigy.com
Subject: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181] [3187]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
Add me to the list interested in the Pick 6. You know what they say
about a fool and his money...."How'd that fool get any money in the
first place?"
Jim
<< Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>
From: "Pacheco, Joe"
Subject: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181]
Date: 10/17
Time: 10:06 PM
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17 Oct 1997 21:00:19 -0500
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:02:29 -0500
From: "Pacheco, Joe"
Subject: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181]
To: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.
0.994.63
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Y'all,
Here is a list of the partners interested in the Pick 6:
Cal
Joe P
Tom C
Big Al
Mark A.
Bob P.
Darrell B
Anybody else interested, just add yourself to the list.
Joe P
<< End of Forwarded message >>
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 22:46:22.81
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/16/97 [3154] [3158] [3183] [3186]
---------------------------------------------------
At 11:27 PM 10/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Cal:
>
>If Guidry was available for Paparouna why must we
>give the ride to Ray? Inquiring minds want to know?
>Also is Liane going to let Ray ride Nat again on the
>turf? Hell i'd rather see Kelly Sampson!
>
>Sorry I just got back from the Hawks game, maybe
>I have had one cold one to much. But I seriously would
>like to see someone other than Ray on our horses.
>
DITTO
ap
>Steve Lewis
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 22:44:27.45
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: breeders cup 6 [3185]
---------------------------------------------------
tom,
I'm in for .10. ;-)
No, I'm in. What kind of stats or numbers do you have for P-6?
when is the race?
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 22:35:07.84
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: Re: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181] [3184]
---------------------------------------------------
I'm interested;
Steve Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 22:30:47.68
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/16/97 [3154] [3158] [3183]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal:
If Guidry was available for Paparouna why must we
give the ride to Ray? Inquiring minds want to know?
Also is Liane going to let Ray ride Nat again on the
turf? Hell i'd rather see Kelly Sampson!
Sorry I just got back from the Hawks game, maybe
I have had one cold one to much. But I seriously would
like to see someone other than Ray on our horses.
Steve Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 21:44:31.82
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3182]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I reviewed the Breeders Cup home page "www.hollywoodpark.com" and Cal is
right, its a pick 6 with a $2 bet. They also have a $1 rolling pick 3.
The $2 wager will cut down on our number of selections, but what the
hell its Breeders Cup!
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 21:06:45.71
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Breeders Cup Pick 6 [3181]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Here is a list of the partners interested in the Pick 6:
Cal
Joe P
Tom C
Big Al
Mark A.
Bob P.
Darrell B
Anybody else interested, just add yourself to the list.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 18:41:21.63
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Michigan Sire Stakes [3148] [3179]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_TylurTo1P5zXfp2cp7+3uQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Lynn,
I downloaded the PP's at lunchtime and while I admire the
gumption of Mr. Speiless for entering his 8k claim two back in a 125k
sire stakes race...Rapid reaction would need a race of Jim Dandy-like
proportions to pull the old upset.......Better chances are Impy who has
to beat the improving Agiftfrom Bertie....but thats all for all the
money Sibille will get the leg up on Impy....impy smashed her last year
by 4...so I am expecing the same tomorrow.....Impy will get no help from
her stablmate so i see it as an easy 1-4 exacta
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_TylurTo1P5zXfp2cp7+3uQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:52:21 -0400
From: Chris & Lynn Cronin
Subject: Michigan Sire Stakes [3148]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Message-id: <34468C95.4138@voyager.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Has anyone handicapped the division of the Michigan Sire Stakes in which
Liane's Impulsive Spender will be running? I just got word from Stable
Mail that Rapid Reaction, who is the daughter of my best, favorite filly
I took care of when I worked at the track (That's My Gal) is running in
it, too. Small world! What are the two fillies' chances?
Lynn
--Boundary_[ID_TylurTo1P5zXfp2cp7+3uQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 18:38:36.31
From: IN%"00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu" "Michael E. White"
From: 00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Subject: Re: Itbaya [3161] [3164] [3169] [3172] [3178]
---------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, John K Martynus wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Michael E. White wrote:
> > Well all I can say is I've got two win photo's on my wall and they both
> > say 1 mile. Two with Shane up and one with Mark up. Though I'm for the
> > soft spots I think 1 mail is her distance.
> > But I think the secret is getting saddle cloth #5, #6, or #9.
>
> Hmmm...my first Itbaya win photo says 1 1/16 mi with a time of 1:49.3
That's correct, three all together 1 @ 1-1/16 and 2 @ 1 mile.
>
> John K. Martynus JK-Martynus@govst.edu shorts@interaccess.com
> "Of course I left her a tip.Crazy Horse in the 5th at Aqueduct"-Leroy Lockhorn
> "Sometimes I wish I knew what was going on here." --Henry Blake
> "I'm not drunk. I'm sobriety challenged."
>
>
>
>
--
. , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
|\/| Ball State University / University Computing Services
/bb "\.
/ _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not included.
'\ Action figures sold separately.
~~ \
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 17:57:52.89
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Itbaya [3161] [3177]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_/utSXkhXwjd7nZY2uzJUgg]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Itsy partners,
Of course alot depend on the weather,
partners.........given her last I like Liane favor the flat mile.....the
only horse I am remotely concerned about is Rita and I doubt her new
connections will opt for this spot....(she was claimed out of WED
race)......sing song wants the extra 1/16 as does nice star......This
time we are sitting in the catbirds seat we are the top looking
down....we have #1 in the 18k-14k class NOW....assuming Rita connections
jump her for her first race for them.......anything close to that 24.2
closing quarter in this class and the partnership makes its shipping
MONEY. As for a claim it is always possible but I think we will be
seeing the VOP silks running down at the FG turf track if all goes well.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_/utSXkhXwjd7nZY2uzJUgg]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:08:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dale E. Herman"
Subject: Itbaya [3161]
In-reply-to:
To: Virtual Owners Partnership
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Cal Jestice wrote:
> Itbaya is doing exceptionally well after her win. She's
> more outgoing and is actually sticking her head out of the stall
> when partners come to visit. Liane is pointing her towards the
> 18K claimer on the 28th(?). Guidry will be taking the ride back.
> Liane is impressed with the way Itbaya is running lately. She
> said that if Itbaya could put in another race like she did the last
> time, she'd feel good about taking her to the FG to race over the
> winter in the 25K claimers. She's impressed with the way Itbaya
> has found a renewed interest in racing.
On Wednesday, 10/16, there were two 3+, f&m turf races at Hawthorne:
18K, purse $12,500, 1-1/16m, Won by Rita Rucker with Song Song Sing and
Myrtle's Music right behind. Nice Star got 4th. Sunny Syrianna got 5th.
That's a pretty tough 18K field.
14K, purse $11,000, 7-1/2f, Won by Bet She Wins by four lengths as a
0.70-1 favorite. The rest of the field was trash.
The 14K race was an order of magnitude easier than the 18K race. It's the
end of the season "I better drop this turf horse in class and pick up a
check" time. We've only got one more shot at a win in Chicago this year.
If a 14K race comes up when Itbaya is ready, we better not pass it up.
I'm not buying that Itbaya is suddenly Ms. Superhorse based on one win and
a suddenly charming personality. :)
Let's be sensible and go for an easy 14K spot if it comes along (I don't
have a Hawthorne book). I don't want to wait another two years for her
next win. :)
If she wins back-to-back races we can consider racing her this winter.
Dale H.
--Boundary_[ID_/utSXkhXwjd7nZY2uzJUgg]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 17:22:22.97
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Sam turf for Nat [3173]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPers,
There were also some turf possibles for Nat at Sam. She would have to
stretch out to a mile or more in these from last season. There were of course
a number of dirt races for her as well. All are for fillys/mares
11-30 1 mile 10k nw3L purse$4800
12-5 1 1/8 allowance purse$10000
Don't have anything else written down from December but was looking more for
Unsold races at the time.
1-30 1 1/16 10k claimer purse$5500 time 1:47.1
2-8 1 mile starter allow purse$5100
2-9 1 1/16 ??? purse$10700
2-19 1 1/16 $6250 claimer purse$4700
2-20 1 1/16 ??? off turf
2-23 1 mile allowance purse$12700
3-9 1 1/16 allowance purse ?? time 1:39.4
3-13 1 mile $6250 purse$4700 2 scheduled-both off turf
3-22 1 1/16 starter allowance purse$5100 time 1:46.4
3-27 1 1/16 allowance purse$9000 time 1:48,4
3-28 1 1/16 12.5k claimer purse5800 time 1:47.3
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 17:06:52.15
From: IN%"shorts@interaccess.com" "John K Martynus"
From: shorts@interaccess.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya [3161] [3164] [3169] [3172]
---------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Michael E. White wrote:
> Well all I can say is I've got two win photo's on my wall and they both
> say 1 mile. Two with Shane up and one with Mark up. Though I'm for the
> soft spots I think 1 mail is her distance.
> But I think the secret is getting saddle cloth #5, #6, or #9.
Hmmm...my first Itbaya win photo says 1 1/16 mi with a time of 1:49.3
John K. Martynus JK-Martynus@govst.edu shorts@interaccess.com
"Of course I left her a tip.Crazy Horse in the 5th at Aqueduct"-Leroy Lockhorn
"Sometimes I wish I knew what was going on here." --Henry Blake
"I'm not drunk. I'm sobriety challenged."
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 17:03:35.23
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: FW: Breeder's Cup Contest [3142] [3151] [3166] [3168] [3171]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_QbbV1QHpLDwVcLSVZ6t3Fg]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Tom,
Put me in for a hundred........I thought that pick 9 was a
gamble with cheap claimers....now were are talking creme de creme so put
me in for a C note.......oh boy just wait until you hear my opionions
...............
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_QbbV1QHpLDwVcLSVZ6t3Fg]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:25:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Channic
Subject: Re: FW: Breeder's Cup Contest [3142] [3151] [3166] [3168]
In-reply-to:
Sender: channic@clark.devl.kcco.com
Cc: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
Reply-to: Tom Channic
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
X-BlackMail: root@172.17.1.5, chile.bb.kcco.com, channic@kcco.com, 172.17.1.5
X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 16:25:55(CDT) on October 17, 1997
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Well, we raised (or dropped depending on your outlook) almost $1000 dollars
for the Pick 9 at Sportsman's in May. If I'm not mistaken the Pick 7 is
only $1 minimum wager, so a similar amount would go a lot farther than
our Pick 9 which singled two races (both lost). For example, $864 would
allow us 2 horses in 3 races, 3 horses in 3 other races and 4 horses in
the remaining race.
This does sound like fun. Anyone else game?
Tom C.
PS. Can someone else verify the $1 minimum?
--Boundary_[ID_QbbV1QHpLDwVcLSVZ6t3Fg]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 16:40:14.16
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: re: Itbaya [3170]
---------------------------------------------------
Dale H. wrote:
>The distance does make the 18K race a little more attractive, but I think
>I still would prefer the 14K race (assuming a neutral weather forecast).
I would always prefer the mile distance, myself.
1-1/16 is poopout distance for Itbaya.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 16:37:51.09
From: IN%"00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu" "Michael E. White"
From: 00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Subject: Re: Itbaya [3161] [3164] [3169]
---------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Dale E. Herman wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Dale E. Herman wrote:
>
> > The 14K race was an order of magnitude easier than the 18K race. It's the
> > end of the season "I better drop this turf horse in class and pick up a
> > check" time. We've only got one more shot at a win in Chicago this year.
> > If a 14K race comes up when Itbaya is ready, we better not pass it up.
> > I'm not buying that Itbaya is suddenly Ms. Superhorse based on one win and
> > a suddenly charming personality. :)
>
> I picked up a 10/19 to 11/8 condition book at lunch. It says:
>
> 10/28 18K, F&M, 1 mile, $12,500 purse
> 10/29 14K, F&M, 1-1/16 mile, $11,000 purse
> 11/5 35K, F&M, 1-1/16 mile, $17,000 purse
>
> Good news: 18K race is one mile - better for Itbaya
> Bad news: Lack of 25K races will shove better horses into 18K race
>
> The distance does make the 18K race a little more attractive, but I think
> I still would prefer the 14K race (assuming a neutral weather forecast).
>
> Easy wins are way more fun than "almost got there" seconds.
> What say yee, Cal?
>
> Dale H.
>
>
Well all I can say is I've got two win photo's on my wall and they both
say 1 mile. Two with Shane up and one with Mark up. Though I'm for the
soft spots I think 1 mail is her distance.
But I think the secret is getting saddle cloth #5, #6, or #9.
Mike
--
. , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
|\/| Ball State University / University Computing Services
/bb "\.
/ _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not included.
'\ Action figures sold separately.
~~ \
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 15:27:50.76
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: FW: Breeder's Cup Contest [3142] [3151] [3166]
---------------------------------------------------
>----------
>From: Pacheco, Joe
>Sent: Friday, October 17, 1997 3:20 PM
>To: 'biggestal2@webtv.net'
>Cc: 'vitual-owners@vop.org'
>Subject: RE: Breeder's Cup Contest [3142] [3151]
>
>Y'all,
>I think Big Al has a good idea, but how about taking it further. I had a
>blast with our last effort at the "Big Score". We fell a bit short last
>time, but how about pooling our resources and going after the PIC 7 for the
>Breeders Cup? I can't remember how much we put together last time, but with
>the Breeders Cup three weeks away, we should be able to put a similar pool
>together.
>Any interest?
>Joe P
>
>----------
>From: biggestal2@webtv.net[SMTP:biggestal2@webtv.net]
>Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 5:44 PM
>To: virtual-owners@vop.org
>Subject: Fwd: Breeder's Cup Contest [3142] [3151]
>
><>
>Ed/all,
> As usual I am going to make myself the 3/5 ML fav to win the
>hat......might as well hand it over now......will save everybody else
>alot of heartache.......I expect to sweep the card like I did last
>year.......oh i had one winner out of seven.......not a good
>example.......okay how about the VOP handicapping chalange.......I
>finish with about 10 bucks from a large bankroll
>but ahead of McChump.......not exactly the best moment this
>year..........come to think of it better make me a longshot :-)
>
> Allan
>
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 14:57:27.71
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya [3161] [3164] [3165]
---------------------------------------------------
>10/28 18K, F&M, 1 mile, $12,500 purse
>10/29 14K, F&M, 1-1/16 mile, $11,000 purse
>11/5 35K, F&M, 1-1/16 mile, $17,000 purse
>
>Good news: 18K race is one mile - better for Itbaya
>Bad news: Lack of 25K races will shove better horses into 18K race
Better distance and tougher competition? Or easier competition
and a less attractive distance? What a quandry. I think both
races will be about the same. Maybe Liane can sniff around and
see just how hard the 18K race is likely to be.
Also, the 14K is slightly more likely at attract a claim (though
I think a claim at any price is highly unlikely), which would be
a very nice price at a time when we're looking to exit.
====================================================
Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care.
----------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
====================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 14:44:02.10
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya [3161] [3164]
---------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Dale E. Herman wrote:
> The 14K race was an order of magnitude easier than the 18K race. It's the
> end of the season "I better drop this turf horse in class and pick up a
> check" time. We've only got one more shot at a win in Chicago this year.
> If a 14K race comes up when Itbaya is ready, we better not pass it up.
> I'm not buying that Itbaya is suddenly Ms. Superhorse based on one win and
> a suddenly charming personality. :)
I picked up a 10/19 to 11/8 condition book at lunch. It says:
10/28 18K, F&M, 1 mile, $12,500 purse
10/29 14K, F&M, 1-1/16 mile, $11,000 purse
11/5 35K, F&M, 1-1/16 mile, $17,000 purse
Good news: 18K race is one mile - better for Itbaya
Bad news: Lack of 25K races will shove better horses into 18K race
The distance does make the 18K race a little more attractive, but I think
I still would prefer the 14K race (assuming a neutral weather forecast).
Easy wins are way more fun than "almost got there" seconds.
What say yee, Cal?
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 14:11:42.30
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: Dignify [3163]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners:
Dignify, the horse that bettered Wes by a nose a few races back and then
beat em by about 5 lengths in the N1X is running in a Starter Allowance at
Keeneland on Sunday. It will be interesting to see how he does against the
much tougher competition. This one is going to be a dirt route.
-Mike Sasso-
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 09:11:51.14
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Itbaya [3161]
---------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Cal Jestice wrote:
> Itbaya is doing exceptionally well after her win. She's
> more outgoing and is actually sticking her head out of the stall
> when partners come to visit. Liane is pointing her towards the
> 18K claimer on the 28th(?). Guidry will be taking the ride back.
> Liane is impressed with the way Itbaya is running lately. She
> said that if Itbaya could put in another race like she did the last
> time, she'd feel good about taking her to the FG to race over the
> winter in the 25K claimers. She's impressed with the way Itbaya
> has found a renewed interest in racing.
On Wednesday, 10/16, there were two 3+, f&m turf races at Hawthorne:
18K, purse $12,500, 1-1/16m, Won by Rita Rucker with Song Song Sing and
Myrtle's Music right behind. Nice Star got 4th. Sunny Syrianna got 5th.
That's a pretty tough 18K field.
14K, purse $11,000, 7-1/2f, Won by Bet She Wins by four lengths as a
0.70-1 favorite. The rest of the field was trash.
The 14K race was an order of magnitude easier than the 18K race. It's the
end of the season "I better drop this turf horse in class and pick up a
check" time. We've only got one more shot at a win in Chicago this year.
If a 14K race comes up when Itbaya is ready, we better not pass it up.
I'm not buying that Itbaya is suddenly Ms. Superhorse based on one win and
a suddenly charming personality. :)
Let's be sensible and go for an easy 14K spot if it comes along (I don't
have a Hawthorne book). I don't want to wait another two years for her
next win. :)
If she wins back-to-back races we can consider racing her this winter.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 08:22:00.06
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: RE: Michigan Sire Stakes [3148] [3160]
---------------------------------------------------
Lynn:
I talked to Herschell briefly before Lady Lomond's race. He seemed to be
very positive about Impulsive Spender's chances. When I asked if he was
familiar with any of the other horses, he mentioned Rapid Reaction saying
that Spender beat her handily last time they faced each other.
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net@INTERNET on Thu, Oct 16, 1997 5:10 PM
Subject: Michigan Sire Stakes [3148]
Has anyone handicapped the division of the Michigan Sire Stakes in which
Liane's Impulsive Spender will be running? I just got word from Stable
Mail that Rapid Reaction, who is the daughter of my best, favorite filly
I took care of when I worked at the track (That's My Gal) is running in
it, too. Small world! What are the two fillies' chances?
Lynn
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 06:58:28.56
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: The Scoop: 10/16/97 [3154] [3155] [3159]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Liane wants to give Nat one more shot on the
turf before the end of the season. Since there's no N2L
in the book, the N3L should get most of the same horses
as her last race.
Cal
----------
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 9:27 PM
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/16/97 [3154] [3155]
Cal,
Why is a nw3l being considered for nat?
I didn't realize she won 2 races.
I don't think she has to have turf......
ap
At 01:35 AM 10/17/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Y'all,
>
> I'm still waiting on cash call checks from the following
>partners. Please get your checks to me as soon as possible.
>
>Charles Baker Brian Brandt Joe Calvo Eric Dawson
>Dave Polewka Nick Urso Dave Verret
>
> Lady Lomond is doing fine after her race. Liane put on
>front wraps for Lady's last race to give the sore ankle a little more
>support and it seemed to help. Carlos said he did not notice Lady
>favoring the ankle and there wasn't much heat in the ankle after the
>race. Lady is feeling good and will be ready to go before the end
>of the month. Unfortunately, the 7K race then is at 6.5 and Liane is
>going to try to get an extra written going 6f. She's leaning towards
>skipping the 6.5 and waiting if needed.
>
> Paparouna is doing well and is pointed towards the race
>on the 29th. She'll work at Hawthorne early next week and should
>be set to go. Ray will be riding Paparouna again.
>
> KLH is doing well and will have his first breeze next week
>after Liane moves to the other side. Liane says that his knees
>bother him a bit on some days, but that's to be expected. He had
>an exceptionally good gallop today and overall, he's coming along
>well and has a good attitude.
>
> Dance Naturally is doing great, but doesn't have a definite
>race planned. There's no N2L races on the turf. The closest we
>have for her is a N3L and N1X at the end of the month. Liane is
>leaning towards the N3L, but as always, the weather and how
>Nat is feeling will play a role in which race we'll shoot for. Liane
>is trying to get Guidry for the ride.
>
> Itbaya is doing exceptionally well after her win. She's
>more outgoing and is actually sticking her head out of the stall
>when partners come to visit. Liane is pointing her towards the
>18K claimer on the 28th(?). Guidry will be taking the ride back.
>Liane is impressed with the way Itbaya is running lately. She
>said that if Itbaya could put in another race like she did the last
>time, she'd feel good about taking her to the FG to race over the
>winter in the 25K claimers. She's impressed with the way Itbaya
>has found a renewed interest in racing.
>
> Unsold is still sore in his ankle and is training as best he
>can. Liane is looking at an N1X on 11/3 for his next race. She'd
>prefer the N2L, but Unsold needs as much time as possible to
>let his ankle cool down. I told Liane about our investigation of
>Sam Houston to find an easier spot for Unsold and she thought
>he would appreciate the easier competition there. She's going
>to get me a list of trainers she knows that are reputable and have
>worked with in the past. Hopefully, I'll get a list by the beginning
>of next week. She also mentioned that the FG are carding starter
>8K races on the turf, but that's still a bit of a stretch.
>
> Hawthorne was kind enough to send me passes for 10
>box seats and programs for my birthday this Saturday. If anyone
>wants one, let me know and we'll pick a spot to meet at the track.
>
>Cal
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
17-OCT-1997 02:18:38.70
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: The Scoop: 10/16/97 [3154] [3158]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_WHbep4cS2sjmNYuTLdjbDA]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Cal/all,
I too was impressed with Itsy's race. It was a nice time esp.
when compared to the 50k claimer the same day at the same distance won
by golden genie ws only 2/5 of a second faster and she won by
7.......One of those 7.5 dealies
at the 25k level at the FG seems right up her alley if she stays in her
present form. She raised her game the last time out. It will be
interesting to see her next from a handicapping perceptive.
Thanks for asking Liane about trainers
down at Sam Houston. Sorry to hear about his ankle.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_WHbep4cS2sjmNYuTLdjbDA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:35:28 +0000 (UT)
From: Cal Jestice
Subject: The Scoop: 10/16/97 [3154]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id:
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Y'all,
I'm still waiting on cash call checks from the following
partners. Please get your checks to me as soon as possible.
Charles Baker Brian Brandt Joe Calvo Eric Dawson
Dave Polewka Nick Urso Dave Verret
Lady Lomond is doing fine after her race. Liane put on
front wraps for Lady's last race to give the sore ankle a little more
support and it seemed to help. Carlos said he did not notice Lady
favoring the ankle and there wasn't much heat in the ankle after the
race. Lady is feeling good and will be ready to go before the end
of the month. Unfortunately, the 7K race then is at 6.5 and Liane is
going to try to get an extra written going 6f. She's leaning towards
skipping the 6.5 and waiting if needed.
Paparouna is doing well and is pointed towards the race
on the 29th. She'll work at Hawthorne early next week and should
be set to go. Ray will be riding Paparouna again.
KLH is doing well and will have his first breeze next week
after Liane moves to the other side. Liane says that his knees
bother him a bit on some days, but that's to be expected. He had
an exceptionally good gallop today and overall, he's coming along
well and has a good attitude.
Dance Naturally is doing great, but doesn't have a definite
race planned. There's no N2L races on the turf. The closest we
have for her is a N3L and N1X at the end of the month. Liane is
leaning towards the N3L, but as always, the weather and how
Nat is feeling will play a role in which race we'll shoot for. Liane
is trying to get Guidry for the ride.
Itbaya is doing exceptionally well after her win. She's
more outgoing and is actually sticking her head out of the stall
when partners come to visit. Liane is pointing her towards the
18K claimer on the 28th(?). Guidry will be taking the ride back.
Liane is impressed with the way Itbaya is running lately. She
said that if Itbaya could put in another race like she did the last
time, she'd feel good about taking her to the FG to race over the
winter in the 25K claimers. She's impressed with the way Itbaya
has found a renewed interest in racing.
Unsold is still sore in his ankle and is training as best he
can. Liane is looking at an N1X on 11/3 for his next race. She'd
prefer the N2L, but Unsold needs as much time as possible to
let his ankle cool down. I told Liane about our investigation of
Sam Houston to find an easier spot for Unsold and she thought
he would appreciate the easier competition there. She's going
to get me a list of trainers she knows that are reputable and have
worked with in the past. Hopefully, I'll get a list by the beginning
of next week. She also mentioned that the FG are carding starter
8K races on the turf, but that's still a bit of a stretch.
Hawthorne was kind enough to send me passes for 10
box seats and programs for my birthday this Saturday. If anyone
wants one, let me know and we'll pick a spot to meet at the track.
Cal
--Boundary_[ID_WHbep4cS2sjmNYuTLdjbDA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 22:33:06.96
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: re: Michigan sire stakes [3157]
---------------------------------------------------
Lynn C. asked:
> Has anyone handicapped the division of the Michigan Sire Stakes in
> which Liane's Impulsive Spender will be running? I just got word from > Stable Mail that Rapid Reaction, who is the daughter of my best,
> favorite filly I took care of when I worked at the track (That's My
> Gal) is running in it, too. Small world! What are the two fillies' > chances?
If I was going to bet this one, which I'm not, I'd lay off Impulsive
Spender. Can't say why.
Now watch her win.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 21:28:37.01
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/16/97 [3154] [3155]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal,
Why is a nw3l being considered for nat?
I didn't realize she won 2 races.
I don't think she has to have turf......
ap
At 01:35 AM 10/17/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Y'all,
>
> I'm still waiting on cash call checks from the following
>partners. Please get your checks to me as soon as possible.
>
>Charles Baker Brian Brandt Joe Calvo Eric Dawson
>Dave Polewka Nick Urso Dave Verret
>
> Lady Lomond is doing fine after her race. Liane put on
>front wraps for Lady's last race to give the sore ankle a little more
>support and it seemed to help. Carlos said he did not notice Lady
>favoring the ankle and there wasn't much heat in the ankle after the
>race. Lady is feeling good and will be ready to go before the end
>of the month. Unfortunately, the 7K race then is at 6.5 and Liane is
>going to try to get an extra written going 6f. She's leaning towards
>skipping the 6.5 and waiting if needed.
>
> Paparouna is doing well and is pointed towards the race
>on the 29th. She'll work at Hawthorne early next week and should
>be set to go. Ray will be riding Paparouna again.
>
> KLH is doing well and will have his first breeze next week
>after Liane moves to the other side. Liane says that his knees
>bother him a bit on some days, but that's to be expected. He had
>an exceptionally good gallop today and overall, he's coming along
>well and has a good attitude.
>
> Dance Naturally is doing great, but doesn't have a definite
>race planned. There's no N2L races on the turf. The closest we
>have for her is a N3L and N1X at the end of the month. Liane is
>leaning towards the N3L, but as always, the weather and how
>Nat is feeling will play a role in which race we'll shoot for. Liane
>is trying to get Guidry for the ride.
>
> Itbaya is doing exceptionally well after her win. She's
>more outgoing and is actually sticking her head out of the stall
>when partners come to visit. Liane is pointing her towards the
>18K claimer on the 28th(?). Guidry will be taking the ride back.
>Liane is impressed with the way Itbaya is running lately. She
>said that if Itbaya could put in another race like she did the last
>time, she'd feel good about taking her to the FG to race over the
>winter in the 25K claimers. She's impressed with the way Itbaya
>has found a renewed interest in racing.
>
> Unsold is still sore in his ankle and is training as best he
>can. Liane is looking at an N1X on 11/3 for his next race. She'd
>prefer the N2L, but Unsold needs as much time as possible to
>let his ankle cool down. I told Liane about our investigation of
>Sam Houston to find an easier spot for Unsold and she thought
>he would appreciate the easier competition there. She's going
>to get me a list of trainers she knows that are reputable and have
>worked with in the past. Hopefully, I'll get a list by the beginning
>of next week. She also mentioned that the FG are carding starter
>8K races on the turf, but that's still a bit of a stretch.
>
> Hawthorne was kind enough to send me passes for 10
>box seats and programs for my birthday this Saturday. If anyone
>wants one, let me know and we'll pick a spot to meet at the track.
>
>Cal
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 20:44:33.93
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: The Scoop: 10/16/97 [3154]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I'm still waiting on cash call checks from the following
partners. Please get your checks to me as soon as possible.
Charles Baker Brian Brandt Joe Calvo Eric Dawson
Dave Polewka Nick Urso Dave Verret
Lady Lomond is doing fine after her race. Liane put on
front wraps for Lady's last race to give the sore ankle a little more
support and it seemed to help. Carlos said he did not notice Lady
favoring the ankle and there wasn't much heat in the ankle after the
race. Lady is feeling good and will be ready to go before the end
of the month. Unfortunately, the 7K race then is at 6.5 and Liane is
going to try to get an extra written going 6f. She's leaning towards
skipping the 6.5 and waiting if needed.
Paparouna is doing well and is pointed towards the race
on the 29th. She'll work at Hawthorne early next week and should
be set to go. Ray will be riding Paparouna again.
KLH is doing well and will have his first breeze next week
after Liane moves to the other side. Liane says that his knees
bother him a bit on some days, but that's to be expected. He had
an exceptionally good gallop today and overall, he's coming along
well and has a good attitude.
Dance Naturally is doing great, but doesn't have a definite
race planned. There's no N2L races on the turf. The closest we
have for her is a N3L and N1X at the end of the month. Liane is
leaning towards the N3L, but as always, the weather and how
Nat is feeling will play a role in which race we'll shoot for. Liane
is trying to get Guidry for the ride.
Itbaya is doing exceptionally well after her win. She's
more outgoing and is actually sticking her head out of the stall
when partners come to visit. Liane is pointing her towards the
18K claimer on the 28th(?). Guidry will be taking the ride back.
Liane is impressed with the way Itbaya is running lately. She
said that if Itbaya could put in another race like she did the last
time, she'd feel good about taking her to the FG to race over the
winter in the 25K claimers. She's impressed with the way Itbaya
has found a renewed interest in racing.
Unsold is still sore in his ankle and is training as best he
can. Liane is looking at an N1X on 11/3 for his next race. She'd
prefer the N2L, but Unsold needs as much time as possible to
let his ankle cool down. I told Liane about our investigation of
Sam Houston to find an easier spot for Unsold and she thought
he would appreciate the easier competition there. She's going
to get me a list of trainers she knows that are reputable and have
worked with in the past. Hopefully, I'll get a list by the beginning
of next week. She also mentioned that the FG are carding starter
8K races on the turf, but that's still a bit of a stretch.
Hawthorne was kind enough to send me passes for 10
box seats and programs for my birthday this Saturday. If anyone
wants one, let me know and we'll pick a spot to meet at the track.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 20:42:52.45
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Where is Hawthorne on my TV Part II [3153]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPers
Sooooooooooooooo I call Retama back and talk to Steve the simulcasting
man and ask about Hawthorne. He says that there was very little interest in
Arlington plus some contractual thing about Haw signal costing more so they
hadn't picked it up.
"But Steve" I said " How about all that money I put in the Retama coffers"?
"If there is no Hawthorne then there is no need to drive down there".
He did say that they might consider picking up the signal on Monday thru
Weds. I guess that is better than nothing if they do that. Soooooooooooooo we
will see.
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDarrell
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 19:55:28.25
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: More Sam research to come [3152]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPers,
I'll be heading back to the library on Friday to get more info on Sam
Houston turf racing from last season Why this time I'll even remember to note
those winning times for comparison.
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 17:47:59.66
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Breeder's Cup Contest [3142] [3151]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_syZHerI7amdKFu5SeN/OkA]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Ed/all,
As usual I am going to make myself the 3/5 ML fav to win the
hat......might as well hand it over now......will save everybody else
alot of heartache.......I expect to sweep the card like I did last
year.......oh i had one winner out of seven.......not a good
example.......okay how about the VOP handicapping chalange.......I
finish with about 10 bucks from a large bankroll
but ahead of McChump.......not exactly the best moment this
year..........come to think of it better make me a longshot :-)
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_syZHerI7amdKFu5SeN/OkA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:30:08 -0500
From: Sunwalker Ostrich Ranch
Subject: Breeder's Cup Contest [3142]
To: "'All VOP'sters'"
Message-id: <01BCD9B1.B9AA0F20@sunwalker>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
All
Well, one contest ends and another begins! Dana
and I are sponsoring a contest to pick the most winners
of the seven Breeder's Cup races. A tough assignment
but I'm sure there will be many of you ready to accept
the challenge.
What prize could be worth such a difficult task? The
winner will be the first non-family member to receive one
of the limited, first-run SunWalker Ranch caps! Yes, you'll
be the envy of everyone you meet when you appear in
public wearing this attractive hat featuring a trio of ostriches
silhouetted against a rising sun with the ranch name
emblazoned across the top.
So sharpen your pencils and break out your forms. The
deadline for entries will be midnight before BC day. Good
luck to all who dare to enter!
Ed
--Boundary_[ID_syZHerI7amdKFu5SeN/OkA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 17:29:34.35
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Re: where's allen? [3147] [3150]
---------------------------------------------------
>Does anyone know where allen is?..............
>
>4:30pm and not ONE message!.......................
>
>Someone out east better check............
>
>ap.....................;-)............
>
He's probably reading thru 3.5MB of Arlington results, race by race by race
by..........
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 17:14:40.17
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Trainer at Sam Houston [3146] [3149]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_b1DAx7kMgmJUJzGAqKoECQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Joe,
Here are he questions I would like asked of him.
1. What does he charge per day?
2. Does he train at Lone Star too?
Well thats all that I can think of right now!
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_b1DAx7kMgmJUJzGAqKoECQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:08:11 -0500
From: "Pacheco, Joe"
Subject: Trainer at Sam Houston [3146]
To: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Y'all,
I've got the name and number of a trainer at Sam Houston, Gilbert
Ciavaglia. He had 17 turf route starters with 4 wins (23.5%). He had a
total of 82 starts last meet with 18 wins (22%). He is one of the top
trainers at Sam Houston. I plan to contact him to discuss the
possiblity of sending him the pud (high level stuff only). If it goes
OK, I suggest we have Cal and/or Liane talk with him. This is just a
"Fact Finding Mission", I'm not commiting dittlely swat (Thats sales
ligo)! Does anybody know anything about Gilbert or have any suggestions
on a particular question that should be asked?
Joe P
--Boundary_[ID_b1DAx7kMgmJUJzGAqKoECQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 16:56:55.80
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: Michigan Sire Stakes [3148]
---------------------------------------------------
Has anyone handicapped the division of the Michigan Sire Stakes in which
Liane's Impulsive Spender will be running? I just got word from Stable
Mail that Rapid Reaction, who is the daughter of my best, favorite filly
I took care of when I worked at the track (That's My Gal) is running in
it, too. Small world! What are the two fillies' chances?
Lynn
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 16:37:29.18
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: where's allen? [3147]
---------------------------------------------------
Does anyone know where allen is?..............
4:30pm and not ONE message!.......................
Someone out east better check............
ap.....................;-)............
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 16:12:20.73
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Trainer at Sam Houston [3146]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I've got the name and number of a trainer at Sam Houston, Gilbert
Ciavaglia. He had 17 turf route starters with 4 wins (23.5%). He had a
total of 82 starts last meet with 18 wins (22%). He is one of the top
trainers at Sam Houston. I plan to contact him to discuss the
possiblity of sending him the pud (high level stuff only). If it goes
OK, I suggest we have Cal and/or Liane talk with him. This is just a
"Fact Finding Mission", I'm not commiting dittlely swat (Thats sales
ligo)! Does anybody know anything about Gilbert or have any suggestions
on a particular question that should be asked?
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 10:20:17.97
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: RE: silks [3144] [3145]
---------------------------------------------------
>>Did he get Brian's silks? Those are pretty bright.<<
Nope. Similar color scheme, but Brian's are better looking.
I think they had an "H" on the back.
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com@INTERNET on Thu, Oct 16, 1997 10:03 AM
Subject: silks [3144]
Mike Sasso asked:
>Hey, did anyone notice Silva's funky silks yesterday. Made it pretty easy
to
>spot our horse from across the track, huh?
Did he get Brian's silks? Those are pretty bright.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 09:51:32.29
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: silks [3144]
---------------------------------------------------
Mike Sasso asked:
>Hey, did anyone notice Silva's funky silks yesterday. Made it pretty easy
to
>spot our horse from across the track, huh?
Did he get Brian's silks? Those are pretty bright.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
16-OCT-1997 01:31:05.53
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lady's Third [3117] [3143]
---------------------------------------------------
Debbie,
Heeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!???
Bob P. ;-)
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 21:14:05.80
From: IN%"Sunwalker@warpnet.net" "Sunwalker Ostrich Ranch"
From: Sunwalker@warpnet.net
Subject: Breeder's Cup Contest [3142]
---------------------------------------------------
All
Well, one contest ends and another begins! Dana
and I are sponsoring a contest to pick the most winners
of the seven Breeder's Cup races. A tough assignment
but I'm sure there will be many of you ready to accept
the challenge.
What prize could be worth such a difficult task? The
winner will be the first non-family member to receive one
of the limited, first-run SunWalker Ranch caps! Yes, you'll
be the envy of everyone you meet when you appear in
public wearing this attractive hat featuring a trio of ostriches
silhouetted against a rising sun with the ranch name
emblazoned across the top.
So sharpen your pencils and break out your forms. The
deadline for entries will be midnight before BC day. Good
luck to all who dare to enter!
Ed
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 21:13:50.46
From: IN%"Sunwalker@warpnet.net" "Sunwalker Ostrich Ranch"
From: Sunwalker@warpnet.net
Subject: RE: Let's go 3 for 3 [2841] [3141]
---------------------------------------------------
Lynn
What was the final outcome? Did you and Kelly
complete the triple? I'm interested in how things
worked out for you two.
Ed
----------
From: Chris & Lynn Cronin[SMTP:cnlcronin@voyager.net]
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 1997 10:38 PM
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: Let's go 3 for 3 [2841]
Ok, people, I'm asking for your good luck vibes/wishes once more...they
seem to have done really well for us the last 2 weeks, with blues on
both occasions. This time, my goals are a little less lofty: I want to
get around cross country and for me and the mare to finish connected to
one another! Yikes, jump number 15 is damn scary looking! Keep those
fingers crossed for us, and thanks in advance.
Lynn
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 17:55:27.79
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Itsy Beyer [3140]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Beyer gave Itsy an 86 for winning her race....a couple of
points better than what I gave her (84)...oh well Beyer figs are better
than MIne (ha).... but I ain't gonna quibble over a couple of
points.........OTOH nat, Beyer gave her a 57 about 7 points too low
IMHO....the DRF did catch NAT being interfered with the 3rd place
finisher.........Unsold's offical Beyer is 69 I gave him a 71...pretty
close again
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 17:44:07.54
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Itsy win picture [3139]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Yeah there ain't nothing better than a win picture of the
horse you own.......I went to the mailbox after work....my feet barely
touching the floor........Yes It was there.....I greedily tore open the
envolope and there it was......Itsy inall her glory....in mid
stride........plus her connections...at least some of them......It was a
wonderful feeling....if I could can it I'd make a mint
Allan
ps--cal don't forget my extra one the check for $17 is in the
mail.......
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 17:27:30.31
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Sam turf races [3123] [3138]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_xGn0UfEOSYFqvTHZkfM4yg]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Darrell/all,
If you wouldn't mind could you please continue your
research......If it is good research,
I'll share my first place prize of pick Itsy and streak prize........If
your research is excellent,
I won't ;-)....the more we know the better descion we can come up with
for The flash and any other horse who might consider coming down to Sam
Houston to race.......
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_xGn0UfEOSYFqvTHZkfM4yg]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:30:25 -0700
From: Darrell Becker <"dbecker5@ix.netcom.com"@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Sam turf races [3123]
To: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Cc: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: "dbecker5@ix.netcom.com"@ix.netcom.com
Message-id: <199710150130.UAA05202@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; I)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Joe/All,
Had a chance to stop by the library today for a look at some of last
season's Sam Houston entries. The Austin library has the Houston
Chronicle on microfilm some I sampled some of last December and most of
February. I would have looked at the whole meet but my eyes were
spinning as the microfilm rolled by and I had to stop with those.
Basically Sam has about a turf race per day. Every few days they threw
in 2 turfers with one usually being a 5 furlong race. Remember that this
list is far from complete, it only includes Half of December and most of
February.
In December here is what Unsold could have run:
12-7 1 1/8 allowance purse$10,500
12-12 1 1/8nw2 other than purse$8900
12-1,12-8,12-13 1 1/16 open 10k claimers purse$5400
February
2-6 1 mile claimer(price not listed) purse$9000
2-8,2-9 open 10k claimers 1 mile purse$5500
2-21 1 1/16 allowance purse$10,700
2-22 1 mile allowance n3L Purse$9000
Again this is far from the entire meet. More research can be done if
the partners desire.
There were also 3 or 4 turf races that might work for Nat plus plenty
of filly/mare races on the dirt. purses in the $4-5k range.
Ya'll let me know if you need me to check more of the last meet.
Darrell B
--Boundary_[ID_xGn0UfEOSYFqvTHZkfM4yg]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 17:09:07.60
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: re: Sam Houston [3128] [3137]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_KFc91+JJrRs7wX6qUorsdA]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Terry/all.
no turf at Steinbenner place......If we want
cheap......Its SH or TuP..........
Allan
ps.........I agree with terry....with liberal licensing laws in
place.....Texas is the ideal place....looked all over the net for info
on SH....no go.......Cary, any luck yet...not to put pressure on you at
all :-)
--Boundary_[ID_KFc91+JJrRs7wX6qUorsdA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:10:04 -0700
From: Terry Bjork
Subject: re: Sam Houston [3128]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: tlbjork@ais.net
Message-id: <34446C4C.6484@ais.net>
Organization: The Big Home Computer
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Steve Moses wrote:
>
> I'm for sending Unsold wherever he can be effective. Right now the
> talk seems to be centered on Texas. According to the Blood-Horse
> magazine, the Sam Houston meet lasts only one month from 11/27 to > 12/29.
I think those are only the 1997 dates. 1998 picks up 1st thing in
January 1998.
FWIW - I've been pushing Hou for the simple fact that it is a
cheaper turf course than Florida of Louisiana, and because I've
seen Turf Paradise over the winter and don't think it is a proper
place for Unsold. If anyone else has other ideas let's hear 'em.
I don't mean to be moving this discussion one way or another.
Will Tampa be running this winter? That's another possibility if
so.
Terry
--Boundary_[ID_KFc91+JJrRs7wX6qUorsdA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 13:41:51.98
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: AP story [3136]
---------------------------------------------------
Mark,
I received the story you did on AP.
Great job.
thanks
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 10:13:38.47
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: RE: Lady's race [3113] [3129] [3134]
---------------------------------------------------
>>Just a suggestion, but maybe we should try Lady without Blinkers. I was at
the last few races and it seems that she got beat at the last second, by a
horse she didn't see gaining on her. We first started using them because she
wouldn't pass other horses. Maybe it's going against us now. Any other
opinions?<<
Yeah. Get Silva back up. Get her loose on the lead. Control a moderate pace.
Then run like hell coming down the stretch.
Lady needs to get loose on the lead or pass the lead horse before making her
stretch drive. Because of her problems, she's not gonna pass many horses
coming down the stretch. She's most likely to be the horse tiring with 1/16
to go. That's okay if we're in front by a couple lengths. Unfortunately Mon
Baisar and Terror Times were a couple of legit speedballs we've come up
against in Lady's last 2 races. Sibille and Silva both rode perfect races
considering the circumstances.
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: biggestal2@webtv.net@INTERNET; virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
From: CRAZZYB@aol.com@INTERNET on Wed, Oct 15, 1997 5:24 AM
Subject: Re: Lady's race [3113] [3129]
Just a suggestion, but maybe we should try Lady without Blinkers. I was at
the last few races and it seems that she got beat at the last second, by a
horse she didn't see gaining on her. We first started using them because she
wouldn't pass other horses. Maybe it's going against us now. Any other
opinions?
Bob J
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 10:13:25.15
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: Lady's Silks [3133]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal/Partners:
Hey, did anyone notice Silva's funky silks yesterday. Made it pretty easy to
spot our horse from across the track, huh?
-Mike Sasso-
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 06:39:51.12
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: Fairgrounds [3120] [3130]
---------------------------------------------------
Len (et al),
I don't know if VOP will be shipping anything
to the FG this year. It would be nice to have a horse
or two that's capable of competing down there'
Cal
----------
From: elvis@mcs.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 7:16 PM
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: Fairgrounds [3120]
Liane couldn't make it either as she was
> in New Orleans, getting prepared for the FG meet.
When are we potentially shipping?
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 05:13:50.63
From: IN%"CRAZZYB@aol.com"
From: CRAZZYB@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lady's race [3113] [3129]
---------------------------------------------------
Just a suggestion, but maybe we should try Lady without Blinkers. I was at
the last few races and it seems that she got beat at the last second, by a
horse she didn't see gaining on her. We first started using them because she
wouldn't pass other horses. Maybe it's going against us now. Any other
opinions?
Bob J
VOP MAIL PAGE
15-OCT-1997 00:17:24.95
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: re: Sam Houston [3128]
---------------------------------------------------
Steve Moses wrote:
>
> I'm for sending Unsold wherever he can be effective. Right now the
> talk seems to be centered on Texas. According to the Blood-Horse
> magazine, the Sam Houston meet lasts only one month from 11/27 to > 12/29.
I think those are only the 1997 dates. 1998 picks up 1st thing in
January 1998.
FWIW - I've been pushing Hou for the simple fact that it is a
cheaper turf course than Florida of Louisiana, and because I've
seen Turf Paradise over the winter and don't think it is a proper
place for Unsold. If anyone else has other ideas let's hear 'em.
I don't mean to be moving this discussion one way or another.
Will Tampa be running this winter? That's another possibility if
so.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 23:33:12.23
From: IN%"StLMo@aol.com"
From: StLMo@aol.com
Subject: Sam Houston [3127]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPsters,
I'm for sending Unsold wherever he can be effective. Right now the talk
seems to be centered on Texas. According to the Blood-Horse magazine, the
Sam Houston meet lasts only one month from 11/27 to 12/29. I thought I read
somewhere that Lone Star then does not reopen until some time in April. Does
anyone know if this info is correct? Do we plan on being idle for almost 4
months if it is?
Steve Moses
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 23:21:46.49
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Where's hawthorne on my TV [3124] [3126]
---------------------------------------------------
At 08:45 AM 10/14/97 -0700, you wrote:
>VOPers,
> I noticed in the paper today that Retama Park's simulcast schedule for
>today didn't list Hawthorne. Sooooooooooooo I called the simulcast line
>and again no mention of Haw. Sooooooooooooo I talked to a live person
>asking if Retama was going to carry Haw. She didn't know and said she
>saw no listing of it through the 25th. I say "Well you carried Sportsman
>and then Arlington sooooooooooooooo why not move with the circuit to
>Haw. She said I should call back tomorrow (Weds) and talk to Steve, the
>simulcasting director. Sooooooooooooooooooo, Who thinks that I will be
>calling Steve at Retama tomorrow?
>
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII do!
ap
Give me Hawthorne or give me a healthy Phonebet account for the VOP
>races that I may not be able to see.
>
> Darrell the most Disenchanted
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 21:07:13.39
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: Lady Lomond [3125]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners:
Lady put in a very nice effort today. Carlos did a nice
job getting her into position from the 9 hole and hussled
her out second behind the one horse who blazed the first
quarter in 22/1. Positions stayed much the same until the top of
the lane when Carlos eased Lady out for the stretch run. Lady
tried awful hard but hung the last 1/16th. The last 1/4 went
in 14 flat and Lady had nothing left. The 3 horse closed late to
beat the one by a nose on the wire with Lady a length back in third.
It was another 2 lengths back to Thrilling Tango in fourth. Final
time was 1:13 flat.
Certainly better than either Cal or I expected. Once again Cal
and I each had 2/3 of the tri. Perhaps I should have talked to
Cal before the race so we could have put together our picks for the
$ 900.00 tri. Well 11% of 7,200.00 isn't terrible. After all the streak
lives!!!!
Steve Lewis
P.S. Cal commented that the cooler weather probably helped. I agree!
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 20:49:36.24
From: IN%"\ddbecker5@ix.netcom.com\d@ix.netcom.com"
From: \ddbecker5@ix.netcom.com\d@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Where's hawthorne on my TV [3124]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPers,
I noticed in the paper today that Retama Park's simulcast schedule for
today didn't list Hawthorne. Sooooooooooooo I called the simulcast line
and again no mention of Haw. Sooooooooooooo I talked to a live person
asking if Retama was going to carry Haw. She didn't know and said she
saw no listing of it through the 25th. I say "Well you carried Sportsman
and then Arlington sooooooooooooooo why not move with the circuit to
Haw. She said I should call back tomorrow (Weds) and talk to Steve, the
simulcasting director. Sooooooooooooooooooo, Who thinks that I will be
calling Steve at Retama tomorrow?
Give me Hawthorne or give me a healthy Phonebet account for the VOP
races that I may not be able to see.
Darrell the most Disenchanted
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 20:16:58.79
From: IN%"ChicoMaki@aol.com"
From: ChicoMaki@aol.com
Subject: Race Recap [3122]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners:
I've gotta start off by saying that IMO today Lady Lomond ran her best race
since her maiden victory.
I got to Hawthorne just in time to see Silva win the 7th race. I couldn't
stand too much of the creepy people and hazy cloud of cigarette smoke, so I
hung out below in the paddock area during the 8th race. I know I've said it
before, but what a difference between Arlington and SPT/HAW. What a shame.
Anyhow, the smell in the paddock was more refreshing than upstairs near the
betting windows.
The 8th race ended and the horses were beginning to be brought into the
paddock for the 9th race. I didn't see any VOPsters, Liane, Cal, Lady
Lomond...Nine horses were brought into the paddock and still no Lady. Then
finally, her groom walked her into the paddock with a big smile on his face
as he gasped for air. It must have been a long walk. Lady was already wearing
her blinkers. Still no sign of Liane. There was a guy I didn't recognize over
by her stall. Someone was shouting to LL's groom to walk her over to her
stall. It was Herschell. Hooray, a friendly face.
I walked over and chatted with Herschell a bit. He told me that Liane was in
New Orleans. He said the horses were still stabled at AP and the planned on
moving them after a $125,000 Impulsive Spender stakes race this weekend in
Detroit. I asked him who was saddling Lady Lomond. He said his buddy John
Something who was an assistant to somebody. Sorry, I didn't get the names but
just as Hershell and I were discussing that matter, Carlos Silva walked into
the paddock area wearing some neon pink and purple silks. WOW! Herschell and
I both almost went into shock. Herschell leaned over to me and said, "at
least we're racing today...unless she gets scratched for wearing the wrong
silks". Oh boy.
The saddling went pretty quick and LL and "Neon" Silva were on the track.
During the post parade I was just waiting for the announcer to say, "and #9
is Lady Lomond wearing the familiar pink and purple of the Virtual Owners
Partnership". Thankfully, that didn't happen. Carlos looked a little
unfamiliar with LL as they headed towards the gate. That was probably just in
my mind though.
She loaded well and got a very good break. The #8 horse jumped a bit in the
gate, but LL broke clear of her and Carlos moved her quickly out front of the
other horses and moved her towards the rail. Randy Meier aboard Terror Time
was gonna go to the front no matter what. Terror Time shot to the front and
ran the quarter in 22.1. Carlos settled LL into 2nd about 3 lengths back of
the leader. The rest of the field was stretched out with the closest horse to
LL being about 4 lengths back. Carlos was the only jock that stayed close to
Terror Time at the 1/2, which was run in 46 flat. If Carlos hadn't stalked
Terror Time, she would have been loose by at least 6 lengths and Meier would
have been home free. Even though she was a few lengths behind, LL kept the
leader honest.
As they turned for home, LL was in striking position. A female voice behind
me yelled "go Karla" (the #10 horse). Then I heard a male voice behind me
say, "go Lady". It was either Jeff Yelke or Bob Jungles who were now standing
behind me. At last, some VOPsters. Cool!
We cheered Lady on as she headed towards the wire. She was gaining slowly on
Terror Time, but seemed to be hanging a bit. Out of nowhere, with about
1/16th to go, Gall made a bold move coming off the rail with Target of Love
and passed Lady Lomond and nosed Terror Time at the wire. Helluva ride by
Gall. Lady finished exactly 1 length behind the photo finishers with the rest
of the field spread out pretty far behind. The final time was 1:13 flat. The
track was running fast today. But a great effort by Lady Lomond and Carlos
Silva. She got tired and hung a bit, but she also handily beat seven other
horses. If she ever gets in a race with not much speed and gets loose on the
lead, nobody's gonna catch our girl.
I saw Hershell immediately after the race and he seemed very happy with
Lady's race. I spoke with Carlos Silva for a couple minutes afterwards.
Basically, the conversation was:
ME: Nice race Carlos, how did she do out there.
CARLOS: I thought I had it won...yata yata yata...I thought I had it
won...yata yata yata...I thought I had it won!
Carlos said she was racing nicely and coming out of the turn he felt he could
go by Terror Time and win the race. But he said that with about 1/16 of a
mile to go, LL tired and couldn't pass the leader. I asked how she was
breathing. He said he thought that she was breathing pretty hard but really
couldn't tell because it was very windy and all he could hear was the wind. I
thanked him for and excellent ride and he said "you're welcome, I thought I
had it won!"
Watching the replay inside afterwards, it looked like Lady was indeed really
running well. The head-on shot showed her racing very straight and she looked
to be running faster than I've ever seen her run. Although she never passed
the lead horse, she didn't seem to tire as badly as she had in her past few
races. It was about 45 degrees at race time, so that probably helped.
I tried to wear as much lucky attire as possible today. On the way home, I
realized why she came so close but didn't win the race. My mom was wearing a
Chicago Bears sweatshirt! New rule: along with no purple VOP shirts, no
Chicago Bears shirts!
-Mike Sasso-
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 19:41:27.22
From: IN%"jeffy@megsinet.net" "Jeff Yelke"
From: jeffy@megsinet.net
Subject: Re: Lady's Race [3116] [3121]
---------------------------------------------------
All,
Pretty much as Cal said. I didn't get there till the 6th, and didn't
see anyone till just before the 9th when I bumped into Bob J.
Lady just chased the speed around, which hurt her chance.
Too bad there wasn't someone else out with the 1.
I didn't get the times. I know the 1/4 was 22:1, and I think
the 1/2 in 46:1.
Mike Sasso talked to Carlos after so he can post what he all said,
but briefly he mentioned he thought he could make it, but Lady
just had nothing left before the finish. Not bad for 17-1.
Don't know who saddled Lady. I saw Herschel come out of the tunnel
looking for Lady, who didn't get to the paddock
till 13 minutes before post. Talked to Karen Z. after so didn't watch
the replay, but all in all seemed like a good effort. With more
of a battle for the front, things might have worked out.
Jeff
----------
> From: Cal Jestice
> To: virtual-owners@vop.org
> Subject: Lady's Race [3116]
> Date: Tuesday, October 14, 1997 6:19 PM
>
> Y'all,
>
> Due to work constraints, I couldn't make it to Hawthorne
> today to watch the race. Liane couldn't make it either as she was
> in New Orleans, getting prepared for the FG meet. I don't know
> who saddled Lady, but hopefully _somebody_ made it to the track
> to give a hands on report.
>
> I made it to the Arlington Intertrack just after the 8th race
> finished. The word was that Hawthorne was favoring speed and
> the inside. That didn't sound good for Lady breaking from the nine
> hole. Lady looked good in the paddock and I saw that Liane had
> fronts put on Lady, most likely to help support her sore ankle and
> because all the rain.
>
> I didn't get to see very much of Lady on the track, but she
> looked OK in the post parade and galloped out nicely. She went
> into the gate with no problems, but just before the start, the eight
> horse fell against the side of her stall. She righted herself and the
> race was off. The one horse shot for the lead and Carlos put Lady
> into a clear second after an 1/8th of a mile. The fractions were quick
> with the quarter going in 22:1. Lady held her ground and came up
> to challenge in the stretch. She just didn't have enough closing kick
> and was third, beaten a length. A great ride by Carlos and a big
> effort by Lady. I think the cooler weather helped her a bit. I couldn't
> see how she came back after the race, but she seemed to finish well.
>
> Cal
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 19:21:05.86
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: Fairgrounds [3120]
---------------------------------------------------
Liane couldn't make it either as she was
> in New Orleans, getting prepared for the FG meet.
When are we potentially shipping?
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 19:18:19.29
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: Re: oh offical finish [3111] [3119]
---------------------------------------------------
Allan Weston wrote:
>
> 3-1-9....I tossed the top two...can't hitem all
>
> Allan
By the way, the #3 was also the co-favorite with elvisware.
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 19:17:01.76
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: Re: LADY third [3110] [3118]
---------------------------------------------------
Allan Weston wrote:
>
> Partners,
> well elvis ware hit this one squareon the nose......lady
> finished third at 17-1
>
> Allan
And if you made the recommended accross bet, you eeked out a profit.
LL looked like she ran a pretty good race. She was in second most of
the race, and made some charges on Terror Time, the leader for all but
the final nose of the race. You figured someone was going to come out
of nowhere, and in in case it was the winner, Target of Love, in what
was the closest photo finish without being declared a draw that we've
ever seen. LL was third, but a sold third in a decent effort.
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 19:01:09.71
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Lady's Third [3117]
---------------------------------------------------
Good going, Lady L; the purse streak continues!
And Allan is the big winner in the Streak Contest; frosting on the cake
after Itsy's win. Hey Al, would you like to trade 3.5MB of result files for
a wonderful winter weekend of ice fishing in Minnesota?
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 18:29:52.13
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: Lady's Race [3116]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Due to work constraints, I couldn't make it to Hawthorne
today to watch the race. Liane couldn't make it either as she was
in New Orleans, getting prepared for the FG meet. I don't know
who saddled Lady, but hopefully _somebody_ made it to the track
to give a hands on report.
I made it to the Arlington Intertrack just after the 8th race
finished. The word was that Hawthorne was favoring speed and
the inside. That didn't sound good for Lady breaking from the nine
hole. Lady looked good in the paddock and I saw that Liane had
fronts put on Lady, most likely to help support her sore ankle and
because all the rain.
I didn't get to see very much of Lady on the track, but she
looked OK in the post parade and galloped out nicely. She went
into the gate with no problems, but just before the start, the eight
horse fell against the side of her stall. She righted herself and the
race was off. The one horse shot for the lead and Carlos put Lady
into a clear second after an 1/8th of a mile. The fractions were quick
with the quarter going in 22:1. Lady held her ground and came up
to challenge in the stretch. She just didn't have enough closing kick
and was third, beaten a length. A great ride by Carlos and a big
effort by Lady. I think the cooler weather helped her a bit. I couldn't
see how she came back after the race, but she seemed to finish well.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 17:55:32.81
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Sarner [3115]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-14 14:22:19 EDT, bounce@slewpy.drf.com writes:
<< Sarner is entered to run
in the 4th race at Hawthorne Racecourse on October 17, 1997. For more
information
about the race, be sure to check out Daily Racing Form's web site
at http://www.drf.com/ or view the entries for this race at
http://www.drf.com/entries/17/HAW.html.
You also wrote the following notes about this horse:
Other Information About this Race
---------------------------------
Race Type:
Purse: $17,000
Claiming Price for Sarner (if applicable): 32,500
Surface: Turf
Distance: 1 1/16 Miles
Jockey: Silva C H
Post Position: 2
# of horses in race: 8
-------------------------------- >>
looks like Sarner is movin' on up........
Sean
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: bounce@slewpy.drf.com (Daily Racing For)
Reply-to: milesm@slewpy.drf.com
Date: 97-10-14 14:22:19 EDT
This is a notice from the Daily Racing Form's online StableMail which
informs you when certain horses will be running in the near future. You
are receiving this message because Sarner is entered to run
in the 4th race at Hawthorne Racecourse on October 17, 1997. For more
information
about the race, be sure to check out Daily Racing Form's web site
at http://www.drf.com/ or view the entries for this race at
http://www.drf.com/entries/17/HAW.html.
You also wrote the following notes about this horse:
Other Information About this Race
---------------------------------
Race Type:
Purse: $17,000
Claiming Price for Sarner (if applicable): 32,500
Surface: Turf
Distance: 1 1/16 Miles
Jockey: Silva C H
Post Position: 2
# of horses in race: 8
--------------------------------
If you'd like to remove Sarner from your list of horses to watch,
go to the StableMail removal form at
http://www.drf.com/stablemail/remove.html.
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 17:33:49.72
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: VOPalooza pix [3102] [3114]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_kG7olm081d6ovj9f9ubMNg]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Terry,
Thanks for the memories of the GREAT time I had....those pics
and the one's Drew and Lynn took...will be memories that will last a
lifetime....looking forward to VOPfest 98 at Hawthorne.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_kG7olm081d6ovj9f9ubMNg]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:46:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Terry Bjork
Subject: VOPalooza pix [3102]
X-Sender: tlbjork@mailhost.ais.net
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <1.5.4.16.19971013234221.090726a6@mailhost.ais.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
New VOPalooza pictures online at www.vop.org/www/vopalooz.htm
This page still needs some work but at least you can see the pictures.
Terry
--Boundary_[ID_kG7olm081d6ovj9f9ubMNg]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 17:04:16.88
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Lady's race [3113]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Lady stalked the speed.loomed boldly and weakened at the
very end beaten 1 1/4 lengths for ALL the $$$$$$.
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 16:51:39.21
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Dale vs. Allan Today [3109] [3112]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_yJ8wX4LlCat3HwVopIsK4Q]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Tom,
Would you please send my prize at your earliest
convinence......Translation in biggestal talk..........Gimme my
prizes!!! as runner-up Dale
and second runner-up Terry B. the ONLY partners withconfidence in
ITSY......and I who has unbridled optimism about the rest of the
stable...........
Allan (you can't take it with you)
--Boundary_[ID_yJ8wX4LlCat3HwVopIsK4Q]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:59:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Channic
Subject: Dale vs. Allan Today [3109]
In-reply-to: <199710121420.HAA09194@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
Sender: channic@clark.devl.kcco.com
Cc: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: Tom Channic
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@kcco.com to report spam.
X-Comments: See http://www.bitgate.com/spam/ for info on this software.
X-Comments: These headers are here for you to report spam!
X-Authenticated-Connect: root@172.17.1.5
X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 09:59:29(CDT) on October 14, 1997
X-HELO-From: chile.bb.kcco.com
X-Mail-From: channic@kcco.com
X-Sender-IP-Address: 172.17.1.5
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
In addition to the 117 pounds Lady carries today go all the hope of
biggestal2 to win the Guess the Streaks Contest today. 3.5 megabytes
of ascii AP charts are loaded and ready to foul up ... er, I mean, *fill* up
the lucky winner's mailbox. Unfortunately I ran out of whiskey sour mix
shortly after the Bears missed the two-point conversion that would have
beat the Packers on Sunday. Fortunately, all you need for a good whiskey
sour is the juice of one lemon, some ice, and, of course, some good
whiskey. Unfortunately, on Sunday I also ran out of lemons, but I digress...
In our last episode, Unsold's 4th extended the purse streak to 12.
Dale's guess was 10, Allan's 15. Allan wins if Lady makes the streak 13,
otherwise Dale earns the bittersweet (& sour) victory. Good luck to both
contestants and especially to Lady and Carlos "Hi-Ho" Silva! (Oops --
another Arlington flashback. They started Friday and won't stop --
especially the time when I won my first $20 win bet -- on Alydar @ 1-20.
Regretfully I have not been able to sustain that high level of
handicapping profitability since. ;>)
Texas anyone? (This would *definitely* require a nickname change.)
Tom C.
--Boundary_[ID_yJ8wX4LlCat3HwVopIsK4Q]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 16:39:01.49
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: oh offical finish [3111]
---------------------------------------------------
3-1-9....I tossed the top two...can't hitem all
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 16:36:40.64
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: LADY third [3110]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
well elvis ware hit this one squareon the nose......lady
finished third at 17-1
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 08:58:06.03
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Lady's Race [3108]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I should probably leave the selections to Allan
considering his record lately, but here goes:
#1 Terror Time - 3yo coming off a sharp maiden win for state
bred 7K claimers. Coming back in eight days. Had plenty of
speed last time out and jockey Meier knows how to use it.
Could be on an easy lead if Brighter Than Air doesn't fire.
#2 Thrilling Tango - Nice move in last race to get 4th, but
1 for 20 record doesn't inspire. Only win came in the slop,
but the track should be dry by the 9th race today.
#3 Target of Love - Was scratched at the gate in her last
race. Showed good speed winning a MdSpWt at FP then was
overmatched in a statebred stake at Hawthorne. Big unknown.
#4 Miss Ritchie Court - Takes a drop from allowance and moves
back to 6f. Should be very competitive with this bunch.
#5 Sister Mary Carol - One for twenty-six lifetime and zero for
ten at the track. Not today.
#6 Brighter Than Air - Best bet to push or clear Terror Time.
Hopefully hooks up with the one horse and dies off.
#7 Jasana - Nice maiden win at FP, but Gall gets off to ride
Target of Love. However, Guidry gets on and she should come
flying late.
#8 Yukon Blond - Back in eight days after a dull effort on the
turf. Valovich gets off to ride Sister Mary Carol. Still has
a shot to be close.
#9 Lady Lomond - Comes back to a better distance, but this race
may be a touch too soon for this gal. Pace sets up well for her
and she'll make a showing somewhere in the lane.
#10 Karla Can Due - Speed from the outside will have a hard time
trying to keep up with the #1 & #6. Likely to fade big time in
the stretch.
#11 Incadar - Comes back to the track where she had her career
best race. Looks to get a rough trip from the outside.
Looks to be a couple of runners in here, but Lady should
be able to get another check. I see it coming back: 4-7-6-9
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 08:05:40.07
From: IN%"ksimpson@umich.edu" "Karen Simpson"
From: ksimpson@umich.edu
Subject: Paparouna Zone [3106]
---------------------------------------------------
Hello everyone /Bob,
News of whenPaparaouna's next race will be, as well as a vist to the
Paparouna Zone has really made my morning.
Bob can't wait to see what comes next.
Karen Simpson
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 06:52:56.53
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Texas, no alias problem [3091] [3095] [3105]
---------------------------------------------------
> A few VOP thanks........first to Drew and to
>terry....nice job on the Web site
...Credit where credit is due department...
Although I'd like to gladly and graciously accept your
thanks, I can not do so in good conscience. Terry B is
the main man for the VOP web site. I didn't have any-
thing to do with the new changes.
====================================================
Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care.
----------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
====================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 06:49:00.55
From: IN%"LCZYZNIE@allstate.com" "Len Czyzniejewski"
From: LCZYZNIE@allstate.com
Subject: elvisware has LL third [3104]
---------------------------------------------------
The numbers:
Fitness - Target of Love (10), Yukon Blond (8), LL (7)
Ability - Yukon Blond (10), Target of Love (9), LL (4)
Class - Yukon Blond (10), LL (2)
Speed - Jasana (10), LL (9), Terror Time (9)
Pace - Brighter than Air and Terror Time (10), LL (8)
Overall - Yukon Blond and Target of Love both 18%, 9/2
- Lady Lomond 13%, 7-1
A quick look at the Tribune has the head guy picking her 4th at 8-1, with
a comment about being a threat here. If the price of at least 7-1 holds up,
definately worth an accross bet.
VOP MAIL PAGE
14-OCT-1997 05:44:15.62
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: Lone Star Park turf races [3087] [3103]
---------------------------------------------------
Joe, thanks for all the research. Texas looks like a possibility. So what
would be the strategy for trainers? Can anyone suggest / recommend some
Texas-based trainers to look at? How far apart are Hou, Lone Star, and FG?
At 08:34 AM 10/13/97 -0500, Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>Y'all,
>I had a chance to review the Lone Star conditions books for the spring
>meet. The lowest level turf claiming races were written at $18,000.
>The vast majority of these were conditioned claimers (Non winners of one
>or two). The pursue was $16,000 for these level races and there were
>alot of races written for fillies and mares. They also wrote a number
>if Starter Allowances, $12,000 purse. The distances on the turf were
>from 7 1/2 furlongs to 1 1/8 miles, with the majority being at 1 mile.
>Lone Star had a large number of conditioned Allowance races, ranging
>from $22,000 to $29,000. Lone Star wrote at least two turf races per
>day, with upto four on certain days. I don't have the pars on these
>races, but I believe they will be equivalent to Arlington's. Lone Star
>will be writing turf races on the first day of the meet this spring
>(Early April start).
>Joe P
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 23:50:04.81
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: VOPalooza pix [3102]
---------------------------------------------------
New VOPalooza pictures online at www.vop.org/www/vopalooz.htm
This page still needs some work but at least you can see the pictures.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 22:22:06.95
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Party time! [3101]
---------------------------------------------------
I was visitor #10001 to the VOP page tonight. We finally made it
into 5 digits!
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 22:10:36.86
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: LL's race [3100]
---------------------------------------------------
Well best of luck to all who are there, and all the rest of us
who can't be. I really and truly cannot make it to this one. :-(
This is what I've been waiting for. Boo hoo.
Let's hope there's some good luck waiting on the 'net when I get
home!
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 21:17:47.49
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Another Paparouna Page [3099]
---------------------------------------------------
All,
You may want to check out: http://www.skypoint.com/~bloby/papa
My daughter's husband likes to build Web pages. Please note the "under
construction" icon, and bear with us as we build. Terry B., sure hope you
have no copyrights on those pix ;-).
Bob P.
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 19:49:19.54
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Cool Weather for Lady L [3098]
---------------------------------------------------
Predicted hight for tomorrow is around 50 degrees. Hope this keeps LL's
breathing problem at bay.
Good Luck to Lady!
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 18:54:27.52
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Lady's race (part 2) [3097]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
sorry
10. Karla can due---the cheap speed on the outside....no....toss
11. Incadar----sorry about this John and Bosk.....but this one gonna
have to beat me....toss
9. Lady Lomond--Believe it or not the leading money earner in this crew
for 97....doesn't say alot for these horses...MUCH improved last
race..weakened a bit in the last furlong should put her in good stead
for this race..........
Well as I have said before not a bunch of world beaters in this
race.......I'll call it 4-9-8-6-2
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 18:38:47.11
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Lady's race [3096]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
nice spot for Lady tomorrow here are the Weston KOD picks
for the race.....
1. Terror time---perfect example of loose lead horse......she fold up
like an accordian tomorrow....toss
2. Thrilling tango- major clunk horse hasn't hit the board since beating
Lady in her comebacker back in Feb...minor share
3. Target of Love--late scratch last out and slow show wok...I'll be
tossing
4. Miss ritchie court---better spotted tomorrow after mission impossible
spot last out
5. sister Mary Carol---pray for this one to stay out of thefield
way.....not terrible but not fast enough....tossarooney
6. Brigherthan air----would not suprise me in the least if I see this
horse on the lead....ala 8/8 race or 7/16...tough call
7. Jasana--- what sob story did this trainer tell Guidrys agent to have
him put Guidry up on this one.....38 day layoff and one slow work..not
with Paulsen's money
8. Yukon Blood--An Interesting saga if the PP's are correct claimed
12/30 for 25k...shipped to SA...freshened a bit...and ran WAYYYY up the
trck and was reclaimed....worst reclaim I have ever seen found out that
she is not a turfer last outsettle to the bottom of the barrell...on
her best she is obviously there
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 18:19:39.76
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Texas, no alias problem [3091] [3095]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_MFY4e2zIz+zbJj0rIj4Irg]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Partners,
A few VOP thanks........first to Drew and to
terry....nice job on the Web site
second to Cal and to Joe P. Real good research fellas.
And lastly to Liane, for getting itsy sharp enough to
EASILY take those horses last time out. That was a good piece of
training....
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_MFY4e2zIz+zbJj0rIj4Irg]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:19:12 -0500
From: "Pacheco, Joe"
Subject: Texas, no alias problem [3091]
To: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
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Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Y'all,
I just got off the phone with the Texas Racing Commission and I was
informed that, in Texas, individuals can run horses under multiple
aliases (sp). I requested several partnership applications and the
rules and regs for racing in Texas (mine are dated). They do have a
licensing requirement for partners owning more than 5% of a horse. I'll
forward the info to Cal when I receive it.
Joe (Tex) Pacheco
P.S. There is no truth to the rumor that Crazy Eddie went flying with
John Denver.
--Boundary_[ID_MFY4e2zIz+zbJj0rIj4Irg]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 17:49:49.28
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: The Scoop: 10/13/97 [3088] [3094]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_JK0OnXvItw+m2agLILuKhg]
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Cal/all,
If we are going to make a good descion regarding Unsold after
his next race (and I assume his last on Chicago). these are the question
I need anwered so I can make the correct call for my vote on his future
as a VOP horse.
1. How long a rest is he going to require?
2. If we do send him to SH after his rest who is going to be our
trainer?
3. How bad are his ankles?
My resoning behind the questions I need answer are the following.......
1.If he needs 6 weeks or so at the farm I can understand that......he
has been raced pretty hard over the last two months so he does need some
rest.
2.I want Liane to have some input as to what trainer we use......Only
because I trust her judgement when I come to horse training she's seen
enough of the trainers to know which one takes care of his or her horses
and which one don't
3. If his ankles are bad enough to effect his form.....and he has
slightly regressed in form
off his last two....He ran decent three back......
he does have problems swithching leads as I pointed out before...and
Liane concurred at the time (thanks terry)...I know that his ankles are
a chronic condition....but just how bad are they again according to
Liane?
If someone could find out the answers to these questions I am sure I can
vote my share with confidence fully informed with no regrets
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_JK0OnXvItw+m2agLILuKhg]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:55:32 -0500
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com (Cal Jestice)
Subject: The Scoop: 10/13/97 [3088]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <9710130955.ZM23115@lion51.pcs.mot.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com,
sender jestice@pcs.mot.com )
Y'all,
I'm still waiting for cash call checks from about
fifteen partners. Please get them to me ASAP.
As everyone knows by now, Lady Lomond is in for
Tuesday's 9th race. Liane was borderline on Saturday
morning on whether or not to enter Lady. The only other
N2L's in Hawthorne's next book were 6.5 furlongs and Lady
can't get that last 16th. However, Tuesday's race is
probably a touch soon. On the bright side, the weather
in Chicago calls for cool temperatures and rain all day
today, so the track should be how Lady likes it.
Paparouna's shin has calmed down and Liane will
breeze her this week when the track dries out and then
find a race. There are two MdSpWts coming up at Hawthorne
on the 22nd & 29th. If the track dries out soon and
Paparouna bounces back fast from the work, Liane will
go for the 22nd, otherwise, it's the 29th.
KLH is doing OK. He's gotten a little filling in
his knee. Liane isn't too concerned about it, but she's
going to have the vet check him over before breezing him.
If all goes well, he should work in a week or so. If that
changes, I'll let everyone know.
Nat has come off her race in good shape. She was
a touch ouchy on her shin the day after her last race, but
things have calmed down and is training with no problems.
There's not another N2L on the turf in the latest book, but
they'll probably write an extra. Liane will play it by ear
and we'll just need to watch for StableMail on Nat.
Itbaya is feeling very good after her last race.
She knows she's done well and is more outgoing than usual.
There's plenty of 14K and 18K turf races in the book for
Itsy. Liane's just going to keep an eye on the weather
and how Itsy is feeling and enter her near the end of the
month. Again, we'll probably find out via StableMail.
Unsold came up a bit sore in his ankles after his
last race. This was to be expected. Liane watched the
race a couple more times and thought Unsold was a little
clumsy changing leads. She talked to Garret and he agreed.
It's the ankles that are causing it and there isn't much
more we can do about it. Liane hopes he should be ready
to come back around the end of the month. There's another
N2L on 11/3.
Cal
--Boundary_[ID_JK0OnXvItw+m2agLILuKhg]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 15:45:21.41
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: leads [3092]
---------------------------------------------------
Sean asked:
>geez...is this the first she's noticed that he had trouble changing
>leads...I've said this since he came back from FG this past spring.....
No. I asked her about it a long time ago when Allan asked about it, and
she said he's always been clumsy. I think I posted that here.
What it has to do at this point with sore ankles I don't know. Maybe this
case was worse than usual.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 15:23:16.77
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Texas, no alias problem [3091]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I just got off the phone with the Texas Racing Commission and I was
informed that, in Texas, individuals can run horses under multiple
aliases (sp). I requested several partnership applications and the
rules and regs for racing in Texas (mine are dated). They do have a
licensing requirement for partners owning more than 5% of a horse. I'll
forward the info to Cal when I receive it.
Joe (Tex) Pacheco
P.S. There is no truth to the rumor that Crazy Eddie went flying with
John Denver.
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 14:15:32.85
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/13/97 [3088] [3090]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-13 10:56:34 EDT, Cal wrote:
<< KLH is doing OK. He's gotten a little filling in
his knee. >>
is this just edema, like water on the knee??....maybe Lynn could elaborate a
bit....thanks...
<< Liane watched the
race a couple more times and thought Unsold was a little
clumsy changing leads. She talked to Garret and he agreed.
It's the ankles that are causing it and there isn't much
more we can do about it. >>
geez...is this the first she's noticed that he had trouble changing
leads...I've said this since he came back from FG this past spring......
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 10:33:49.38
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Itbaya Photos [3089]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I couldn't get to the post office on Saturday,
so the Itbaya win photos will go out today. I messed
up at AP and didn't order enough pictures, so Greg
Gulliver and myself will be waiting for another set
to be printed. If anyone wants an extra, please let
me know and I'll have extras made for your. They're
$17 each which includes shipping. Please let me know
by Wednesdays if you want another copy.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 09:58:54.10
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: The Scoop: 10/13/97 [3088]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I'm still waiting for cash call checks from about
fifteen partners. Please get them to me ASAP.
As everyone knows by now, Lady Lomond is in for
Tuesday's 9th race. Liane was borderline on Saturday
morning on whether or not to enter Lady. The only other
N2L's in Hawthorne's next book were 6.5 furlongs and Lady
can't get that last 16th. However, Tuesday's race is
probably a touch soon. On the bright side, the weather
in Chicago calls for cool temperatures and rain all day
today, so the track should be how Lady likes it.
Paparouna's shin has calmed down and Liane will
breeze her this week when the track dries out and then
find a race. There are two MdSpWts coming up at Hawthorne
on the 22nd & 29th. If the track dries out soon and
Paparouna bounces back fast from the work, Liane will
go for the 22nd, otherwise, it's the 29th.
KLH is doing OK. He's gotten a little filling in
his knee. Liane isn't too concerned about it, but she's
going to have the vet check him over before breezing him.
If all goes well, he should work in a week or so. If that
changes, I'll let everyone know.
Nat has come off her race in good shape. She was
a touch ouchy on her shin the day after her last race, but
things have calmed down and is training with no problems.
There's not another N2L on the turf in the latest book, but
they'll probably write an extra. Liane will play it by ear
and we'll just need to watch for StableMail on Nat.
Itbaya is feeling very good after her last race.
She knows she's done well and is more outgoing than usual.
There's plenty of 14K and 18K turf races in the book for
Itsy. Liane's just going to keep an eye on the weather
and how Itsy is feeling and enter her near the end of the
month. Again, we'll probably find out via StableMail.
Unsold came up a bit sore in his ankles after his
last race. This was to be expected. Liane watched the
race a couple more times and thought Unsold was a little
clumsy changing leads. She talked to Garret and he agreed.
It's the ankles that are causing it and there isn't much
more we can do about it. Liane hopes he should be ready
to come back around the end of the month. There's another
N2L on 11/3.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
13-OCT-1997 08:38:49.06
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Lone Star Park turf races [3087]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I had a chance to review the Lone Star conditions books for the spring
meet. The lowest level turf claiming races were written at $18,000.
The vast majority of these were conditioned claimers (Non winners of one
or two). The pursue was $16,000 for these level races and there were
alot of races written for fillies and mares. They also wrote a number
if Starter Allowances, $12,000 purse. The distances on the turf were
from 7 1/2 furlongs to 1 1/8 miles, with the majority being at 1 mile.
Lone Star had a large number of conditioned Allowance races, ranging
from $22,000 to $29,000. Lone Star wrote at least two turf races per
day, with upto four on certain days. I don't have the pars on these
races, but I believe they will be equivalent to Arlington's. Lone Star
will be writing turf races on the first day of the meet this spring
(Early April start).
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
12-OCT-1997 21:34:01.45
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: LL Lineup, courtesy of DRF [3086]
---------------------------------------------------
TH ( 4:20).
Distance: 6 Furlongs
Surface: Dirt
Sex: Fillies and Mares
Age: 3 year olds and up
(Illinois registered, conceived, and/or foaled) 7,500-7,500
PURSE $7,200
(11) to go.
Post #
Horse
Jockey
Weight
Claim
Price
Equip.
Med.
1
Terror Time
Meier R
118
7,500
2
Thrilling Tango
Meza N
117
7,500
3
Target of Love
Gall D
113
7,500
4
Miss Ritchie Court
Diaz J L
115
7,500
5
Sister Mary Carol
Valovich C J
114
7,500
6
Brighter Than Air
Laviolette B S
113
7,500
7
Jasana
Guidry M
115
7,500
8
Yukon Blond
Schaefer G A
113
7,500
9
Lady Lomond
Silva C H
117
7,500
10
Karla Can Due
Macias G
114
7,500
11
Incadar
Sibille R
113
7,500
VOP MAIL PAGE
12-OCT-1997 18:26:52.63
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: Hawthorne [3075] [3085]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Everything is set at Haw.
Cal
----------
From: 73774.323@compuserve.com
Sent: Friday, October 10, 1997 9:43 PM
To: VOP
Subject: Hawthorne [3075]
Cal,
Forgot to ask you today, is Lianne's owners list at Hawthorne? I was
thinking of getting my card "stickered" this coming Sunday.
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
12-OCT-1997 09:23:36.25
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: lady-incadar rematch [3084]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Okay it ain't alyadar-affirmed but still makes for a fun
rivalry......john and jason and the rest of Banner headline stables have
entered their pride and joy--Incadar vs. The VOP's Lady lomond.
hopefully it will come out better than the last time when they ran last
and next-to-last with lady getting the nod.......good luck to both but
of course I am prejuided on the side of VOP.
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
12-OCT-1997 03:06:28.16
From:
From:
Subject: Are You Listed? [3083]
---------------------------------------------------
Site traffic is so critically important, and as the web contact for
your domains, we wondered if you could forward this to the person in charge
of site marketing and traffic building.
As a webmaster or webmarketer, you know that getting traffic from the
search engines and directories is absolutely crucial to the success of your
(or your client's) site. You have probably heard of submission services,
and some of them area really great service .... but, as you may be aware,
the search engines don't always process the submissions, and they also drop
many sites that used to be listed out of the directories to keep the size
of their database down, so you never can be sure if you have an active
listing, till now.
So, we have launched a new service called did-it.com at
http://www.did-it.com. The did-it.com Detective will check any URL to see
if the URL is listed in the search engines, as well as the RANK for a
particular key word. It then e-mails you a status report FREE OF CHARGE.
If you find you're not listed, you can utilize our Did-it submission and
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monitor the status of your site on all the popular search engines and
automatically resubmit you wherever you're not listed. Today, that's the
ONLY way you can be sure you get listed and stay listed, automatically.
Come take a look... http://www.did-it.com and use our detective service FREE!
BTW, If you like our service you can also become a did-it.com Partner. In
exchange for putting a small icon next to a link to us, you will become
eligible for did-it.com Partner benefits. Check out the partner program
at: http://www.did-it.com/ click on the partner icon.
Thanks so much.
Regards,
The did-it.com team.
VOP MAIL PAGE
11-OCT-1997 15:36:20.23
From: IN%"milesm@slewpy.drf.com"
From: milesm@slewpy.drf.com
Subject: StableMail -- Lady Lomond [3082]
---------------------------------------------------
This is a notice from the Daily Racing Form's online StableMail which
informs you when certain horses will be running in the near future. You
are receiving this message because Lady Lomond is entered to run
in the 9th race at Hawthorne Racecourse on October 14, 1997. For more information
about the race, be sure to check out Daily Racing Form's web site
at http://www.drf.com/ or view the entries for this race at
http://www.drf.com/entries/14/HAW.html.
You also wrote the following notes about this horse:
Other Information About this Race
---------------------------------
Race Type:
Purse: $7,200
Claiming Price for Lady Lomond (if applicable): 7,500
Surface: Dirt
Distance: 6 Furlongs
Jockey: Silva C H
Post Position: 9
# of horses in race: 11
--------------------------------
If you'd like to remove Lady Lomond from your list of horses to watch,
go to the StableMail removal form at http://www.drf.com/stablemail/remove.html.
VOP MAIL PAGE
11-OCT-1997 11:24:37.42
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Itbaya win photo [3081]
---------------------------------------------------
Now online behind the _WINS!_ thumbnail in the "Latest Racing News"
section of the front page.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
11-OCT-1997 11:04:36.56
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Hou [3080]
---------------------------------------------------
Cary -
What would be real helpful knowledge about Sam Houston would be to
find out just how many turf races were run last winter, how often,
and what levels. I wonder if there was somewhere at the racetrack
you could find that out?
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
11-OCT-1997 06:22:21.38
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Turf figs [3076]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Got around to doing my turf figs for the VOP
horses.........Nat 64 Beyer........Unsold 71 Beyer........and for Itsy a
Best in two years 84.....with a final fraction 24.1......she was cookin'
down the stretch in her AP finale.
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 21:49:31.24
From: IN%"73774.323@compuserve.com"
From: 73774.323@compuserve.com
Subject: Hawthorne [3075]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal,
Forgot to ask you today, is Lianne's owners list at Hawthorne? I was
thinking of getting my card "stickered" this coming Sunday.
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 18:13:29.46
From: IN%"arbourc@flash.net" "Cary Arbour"
From: arbourc@flash.net
Subject: Re: Sam Houston [3072] [3074]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
I haven't been one to keep up with the stats at Sam Houston like some of
you do at your local tracks, but I live about 15 minutes from there and
frequent it quite often. If there is any information, or assistance needed
from a partner close to the track let me know.
Cary Arbour
----------
> From: Allan Weston
> To: virtual-owners@vop.org
> Subject: Sam Houston [3072]
> Date: Friday, October 10, 1997 5:16 PM
>
> Partners,
> While I still feel Unsold can improve his performance over
> his AP races.....into the 85-90 Beyer fig range....and given Keith
> Sirota lukewarm response to the pud PP's Perhaps Terry's suggestion of
> Sam Houston and its easier comp is the answer the Unsold partnership has
> been seaching for.
> I see a few immediate benifits:
>
> 1. No CRT horses even thinking about Texas
> ie no liscenseing problems
>
> 2. we have partners within the stateand nearby
> in Louisanna
>
> 3. The easier comp should be good for the pud
> win albiet probalbly in the 10k for nw1 range 6k winning purse.
>
> I started to think about what Cal said and also looked at Itbaya winning
> race and how we got into the winners circle with her.....dropped her in
> class...she was doing the same as the pud is now in the early
> summer.......finishing 4 or 5th every time out we dropped her in class
> and although it took a couple of races she finaaly broke her 21 race
> losing streak......well Unsold is in the same canoe as Itsy was
> in....and the way to the winners circle is dropping him until he
> wins....and Sam houston sounds like just the ticket.......
> Allan
>
> ps......I was so excited terry I downloaded the requirements for
> ownership in Texas.......One of the partners has to make a sworn
> statement that the partnership can can conduct business in Texas. The
> track needs the names and addresses of all the partners. theusual 5%
> rule
> (all those with over 5% ownership must be lisenced owners.Cost 20 bucks)
> . And VOP must either fill out the authorized agent stuff
> OR designiate a partner
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 17:26:35.99
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Bob b idea [3073]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners.
Iam so excited I almost forgot if we can establish
somewhere in the midwest where we can send our turf horses and cheaper
stock
it will benefit VOP in both the long and short run
to do it ib Texas.
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 17:19:13.64
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Sam Houston [3072]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
While I still feel Unsold can improve his performance over
his AP races.....into the 85-90 Beyer fig range....and given Keith
Sirota lukewarm response to the pud PP's Perhaps Terry's suggestion of
Sam Houston and its easier comp is the answer the Unsold partnership has
been seaching for.
I see a few immediate benifits:
1. No CRT horses even thinking about Texas
ie no liscenseing problems
2. we have partners within the stateand nearby
in Louisanna
3. The easier comp should be good for the pud
win albiet probalbly in the 10k for nw1 range 6k winning purse.
I started to think about what Cal said and also looked at Itbaya winning
race and how we got into the winners circle with her.....dropped her in
class...she was doing the same as the pud is now in the early
summer.......finishing 4 or 5th every time out we dropped her in class
and although it took a couple of races she finaaly broke her 21 race
losing streak......well Unsold is in the same canoe as Itsy was
in....and the way to the winners circle is dropping him until he
wins....and Sam houston sounds like just the ticket.......
Allan
ps......I was so excited terry I downloaded the requirements for
ownership in Texas.......One of the partners has to make a sworn
statement that the partnership can can conduct business in Texas. The
track needs the names and addresses of all the partners. theusual 5%
rule
(all those with over 5% ownership must be lisenced owners.Cost 20 bucks)
. And VOP must either fill out the authorized agent stuff
OR designiate a partner
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 16:41:11.52
From: IN%"jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu" "Jen Roth"
From: jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu
Subject: Chicago Racing Report (fwd) [3071]
---------------------------------------------------
Well, I complained about the 10 minutes spent covering the casinos, and
got the following reply.
--
Jen Roth
jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu
Thank you for not dumping core.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 17:19:19 -0400
Subject: Chicago Racing Report
Thank you for informing us of the Chicago Racing Report gambling segments.
I was not aware of it and will followup. This program should be covering
the actual race results from the local tracks.
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 16:38:08.81
From: IN%"robws@ix.netcom.com" "Bob Schaefer"
From: robws@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Itsy's win [2991] [3058] [3070]
---------------------------------------------------
I didn't know the shoes were available. I'd also like to have one.
Bob Schaefer
----------
> From: LARRY M MARCUS
> To: virtual-owners@vop.org
> Subject: Itsy's win [2991] [3058]
> Date: Friday, October 10, 1997 3:10 PM
>
> I'm sure all of the other Itsy partner's were happy I didn't show up
> in person to jinx her again.
>
> In fact - I WAS at Belmont to see the other horse I have a share in
> run - she ran 11th. The jinx is still intact.
>
> Then ran to New Haven to see Itsy win in a great race!!! - perfect
> ride by Guidry. I'd like a copy of the video if one is available.
> Can't wait to get the picture. And - is there any horseshoe
> distribution plan? - I'm still one of the partners who hasn't gotten
> one.
>
> Congratulations to Liane, Cal, Mark and all of Itsy's partners.
> Isn't is amazing how well she runs when she's healthy!!??(VBSEG)
>
>
> Larry
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 16:37:16.15
From: IN%"robws@ix.netcom.com" "Bob Schaefer"
From: robws@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya win photos [3052] [3069]
---------------------------------------------------
Thanks Cal. I'm really looking forward to receiving mine. Its been a long
long time.
BS
----------
> From: Cal Jestice
> To: virtual-owners@vop.org
> Subject: Itbaya win photos [3052]
> Date: Thursday, October 09, 1997 11:47 PM
>
> Y'all,
>
> I'll be picking up the Itbaya win photos on
> Friday and getting them out in the mail on Saturday.
> Any local partners wanting to grab theirs at the track
> should let me know.
>
> Cal
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 14:31:13.69
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: Cal [3068]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal:
Could you call me at (847) 835-2400 if you get this E-mail
before 5 pm on Friday.
Steve Lewis
P.S. Have me paged
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 11:50:47.39
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sam Houston [3060] [3067]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-10 10:51:26 EDT, tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com writes:
<< Joe or Darrell - know the actual dates? >>
Terry/all,
Sam runs from Nov 27th to April 4th I believe. I know Lone Star opens on
April 9th.
As I mentioned in an earlier post when I spoke to the racing sec at Sam a few
months back he mentioned daily purse schedule of $70-75k. Certainly not great
but a place where I believe Unsold could be competitive. He also said at that
time that they hoped to card 1 or 2 turf races a day. That of course remains
to be seen.
I would also mention again that if the Sam Houston option is explored and
VOP might consider shipping Wes down, that we should also consider Nat a
candidate for Sam. I don't see FG as an option for Nat but she could likely
compete at Sam.
I have a call into Sam now and am waiting on a call back.
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 10:57:21.28
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: Itsy's win [2991] [3058] [3066]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 10, 10:10am, LARRY M MARCUS wrote:
> Subject: Itsy's win [2991] [3058]
> I'm sure all of the other Itsy partner's were happy I didn't show up
> in person to jinx her again.
>
> In fact - I WAS at Belmont to see the other horse I have a share in
> run - she ran 11th. The jinx is still intact.
>
> Then ran to New Haven to see Itsy win in a great race!!! - perfect
> ride by Guidry. I'd like a copy of the video if one is available.
> Can't wait to get the picture. And - is there any horseshoe
> distribution plan? - I'm still one of the partners who hasn't gotten
> one.
>
As a matter of fact, I think I still have the set of shoes
from her N2X win sitting in my basement. The first attempt at this
caused such grief that I really question the value of doing it again.
I'll talk to Liane to see when Itsy will be shod next.
Cal
>
> Larry
>-- End of excerpt from LARRY M MARCUS
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 10:42:42.21
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Horseshoe request [3065]
---------------------------------------------------
< And - is there any horseshoe
>distribution plan? - I'm still one of the partners who hasn't gotten
one.>
>
>Larry
Put in your horseshoe request's to pancho,or if your not local have a local
partner ask pancho.
I asked him to get me a set of pappy's shoe's and he remembered even though
I hadn't been around the barn for 2 month's. You can expect a set to be
replaced
every 3-4 weeks, so there should be plenty for those interested.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 10:29:08.83
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: FW: Sam Houston [3060] [3064]
---------------------------------------------------
>----------
>From: Pacheco, Joe
>Sent: Friday, October 10, 1997 10:24 AM
>To: 'tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com'
>Subject: RE: Sam Houston [3060]
>
>Terry,
>I haven't a clue. Darrell can you look at this? I'm currently reviewing the
>Lone Star conditions books to pull some races for comparison.
>Joe P
>
>----------
>From: Terry Bjork[SMTP:tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com]
>Sent: Friday, October 10, 1997 9:51 AM
>To: virtual-owners@vop.org
>Subject: Sam Houston [3060]
>
>
>TB meet opens Nov. 27th and then runs through ??? of 1998.
>
>Joe or Darrell - know the actual dates?
>
>Also, anyone got the turf pars for Sam Houston, as well as an idea
>of what levels of races they run and purses during the winter meet?
>Purses were pretty stinky during the Sept. mixed meet.
>
>FYI - They ran a turf stakes there during the Sept. mixed meet, with
>a purse of $20,550. There was even the claim that this was a G3 race!
>
>Over 1-1/16, finish time was 1:58.12. Wes' 1-1/8 was won yesterday in
>1:52.76, so call Wes 1:54 for the 1-1/8 . Wes could be a graded stakes
>winner at Sam Houston!
>
>Terry
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 10:02:35.96
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: Sam Houston [3060] [3061]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I agree that SH would be a much easier spot for
the flash should we wish to continue with him. I know
Chicago trainer Steve Assmussen races in Texas along
with a couple others who have been on this circuit. The
purses aren't great, but the competition should be a
notch or two below Hialeah.
The National Charts Weekly doesn't carry Sam
Houston, so I can't pull up a year's worth of results.
I'll dig through all of last year's forms to see if
I've got a few with SH in it to get a handle on the
level of competition. I'll also get in touch with
the racing office to get a condition book.
Cal
On Oct 10, 9:51am, Terry Bjork wrote:
> Subject: Sam Houston [3060]
>
> TB meet opens Nov. 27th and then runs through ??? of 1998.
>
> Joe or Darrell - know the actual dates
>
> Also, anyone got the turf pars for Sam Houston, as well as an idea
> of what levels of races they run and purses during the winter meet?
> Purses were pretty stinky during the Sept. mixed meet.
>
> FYI - They ran a turf stakes there during the Sept. mixed meet, with
> a purse of $20,550. There was even the claim that this was a G3 race!
>
> Over 1-1/16, finish time was 1:58.12. Wes' 1-1/8 was won yesterday in
> 1:52.76, so call Wes 1:54 for the 1-1/8 . Wes could be a graded stakes
> winner at Sam Houston!
>
> Terry
>
>-- End of excerpt from Terry Bjork
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 09:53:39.92
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: Sam Houston [3060]
---------------------------------------------------
TB meet opens Nov. 27th and then runs through ??? of 1998.
Joe or Darrell - know the actual dates?
Also, anyone got the turf pars for Sam Houston, as well as an idea
of what levels of races they run and purses during the winter meet?
Purses were pretty stinky during the Sept. mixed meet.
FYI - They ran a turf stakes there during the Sept. mixed meet, with
a purse of $20,550. There was even the claim that this was a G3 race!
Over 1-1/16, finish time was 1:58.12. Wes' 1-1/8 was won yesterday in
1:52.76, so call Wes 1:54 for the 1-1/8 . Wes could be a graded stakes
winner at Sam Houston!
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 09:25:32.46
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: Itsy's win [2991] [3058] [3059]
---------------------------------------------------
>I'm sure all of the other Itsy partner's were happy I didn't show up
>in person to jinx her again.
So...
Larry didn't show up at the track,
Joe didn't wager on Itsy, and
Allan didn't wear his VOP shirt.
Which of these things (or which combination of them) is
the true jinx?
====================================================
Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care.
----------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
====================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 09:15:59.04
From: IN%"DWRE56A@prodigy.com"
From: DWRE56A@prodigy.com
Subject: Itsy's win [2991] [3058]
---------------------------------------------------
I'm sure all of the other Itsy partner's were happy I didn't show up
in person to jinx her again.
In fact - I WAS at Belmont to see the other horse I have a share in
run - she ran 11th. The jinx is still intact.
Then ran to New Haven to see Itsy win in a great race!!! - perfect
ride by Guidry. I'd like a copy of the video if one is available.
Can't wait to get the picture. And - is there any horseshoe
distribution plan? - I'm still one of the partners who hasn't gotten
one.
Congratulations to Liane, Cal, Mark and all of Itsy's partners.
Isn't is amazing how well she runs when she's healthy!!??(VBSEG)
Larry
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 08:50:26.45
From: IN%"Sally_Jestice-CSJ007@email.mot.com" "Sally Jestice-CSJ007"
From: Sally_Jestice-CSJ007@email.mot.com
Subject: RE: "End of an Era?" [2932] [3057]
---------------------------------------------------
Mark,
Looks like you worked really hard on this section and the result is very
impressive. I really enjoyed your very personal and heartfelt article.
Sally
________________________________________________________
To: virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
From: malesia@home.com@INTERNET on Tue, Oct 7, 1997 7:30 PM
Subject: "End of an Era?" [2932]
Partners,
If you have a chance to pick up the Daily Herald on Friday, please
check out the special section "End of an Era?" If you're at Arlington,
the paper is giving it away as part of a promotion. I did much of the
writing and design, and I'm kind of proud of it. It's a 12-page tabloid
on the history of the track, with an analysis by our political writer on
whether this is really the end (she says yes). For out-of-towners, we're
a 130,000-circulation paper covering much of the Chicago suburban area.
I'd be happy to snail mail you a copy if you give me your address.
Thanks.
-- Mark
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 07:43:48.49
From: IN%"RBDN74A@prodigy.com"
From: RBDN74A@prodigy.com
Subject: re: Unsold and licensing [3043] [3056]
---------------------------------------------------
Terry wrote:
It is not as bad as it seems, but in the case of Unsold and Florida
we do
have a problem with Joe Calvo (and possibly others) that would have
to get resolved before Wes could go there, perhaps by leasing,
although
I think technically that's kind of a shady approach and the rules on
this
differ in every state as well (California was a real stickler about
this,
with
written lease agreements required and all sorts of hoop-jumping).
*************
I'm not sure we'd have a problem in Florida. As I mentioned in an
earlier post, the only CRT horse Keith trains right now is Village
Fair. Her status for Florida has not been set yet so it could
actually be possible that CRT will not have any horses in Florida.
Also, I had Keith take a look at the form for Unsold. His first
thought wasn't a positive one. Knowing Keith, I wasn't surprised of
his thinking after seeing 1 win in 21 starts (make it 22). I know he
doesn't care about cashing checks as much as he looks for the win. I
know he'd only be concerned about where the horse could win. I'm
seeing him tomorrow morning and I'll discuss the situation further.
If anyone has other thoughts or questions they would like me to relay
in person, let me know.
Regards Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
10-OCT-1997 07:07:59.32
From: IN%"oaklawn@apci.net" "Robert J. Hillebrand"
From: oaklawn@apci.net
Subject: Re: Itsy Wins [2978] [3055]
---------------------------------------------------
Sorry; my mistake about the venue. My brain was apparently stuck in Tuesday
with the Nat race.
Bob H.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert J. Hillebrand
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Date: Wednesday, October 08, 1997 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Itsy Wins [2978]
>Congratulations to the proud owners if Itbaya. Nice work, and glad that
>non-win streak has ended. It appears that all we needed was to get away
from
>AP, where it was definitely a long, hot summer.
>
>Bob Hillebrand
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 21:28:56.11
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Paparouna pictures [3054]
---------------------------------------------------
Originally I made one extra set of my Paparouna race pictures for Joe P.
Since then I've had an additional request for a set. As long as I have
to take the negatives in anyhow, I'd be willing to order extra sets.
There's about 15 pictures in the entire set, the best 3 of which you've
already seen. To get them dup'ed and mailed will probably cost about
$7-$8 the set. If anyone else wants a set let me know by Monday.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 20:05:45.77
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: Unsold's Race [3053]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
It was another typical Unsold performance today as
he loped around the track with no problems to finish 4th.
Garret's comments after the race were that Unsold didn't
have any problems and ran the best he could.
Watching the replay inside with Mike Sasso, Dale
Herman, Mark Alesia and a couple other VOPsters, we
couldn't see any reason why Unsold didn't fire. It looked
like Garret may have gotten Unsold a little tight a couple
of times, but the head-on replay shows he always had a
clear path to run through.
The top two finishers in the race had never had a
career best BSF over 73. The third place finisher overcame
a wide troubled trip to pass Unsold. With a perfect trip,
the Flash could do no better than fourth.
I'm urging the Unsold partners to put a lot of thought
into what they want to do with him. Our six year old mare,
Itbaya, is consistantly running BSF's just under 80. Unsold
isn't close to that and he needs to run against males. I've
burned a half day of vacation digging up the BSF's for Calder,
Hialeah and Monmouth for the claiming ranks there. They're
on par with Arlington and if the Flash repeats his career best
he could get third in _some_ of those races. Those tracks don't
have conditioned claiming races, so he'll either face open races
or go back into allowances. I'm posting a table of the win,place
and show BSF from the last year of races at those tracks
(Calder: Oct->Dec, Hia: Mar->May, Mth/Mea: Jun-> Sept).
If a majority of partners are hell-bent on keeping the Flash
another year, we'll do it. However, I see no opportunity for
the Flash to make money or break even on that circuit.
Cal
Date Class Dist Win Place Show
10/24/96 25K 8.5 93 85 85
10/26/96 N1X 8.5 81 80 78
10/28/96 32K 9.0 88 86 80
11/4/96 32K 9.0 89 87 87
11/5/96 N2X 8.5 89 87 77
11/7/96 N1X 9.0 83 83 77
11/9/96 25K 9.0 92 86 83
11/18/96 N2X 8.5 90 87 84
11/21/96 N1X 8.5 86 71 71
11/23/96 25K 9.0 89 87 83
11/24/96 32K 8.5 88 86 74
11/28/96 N1X 9.0 79 78 77
11/29/96 N1X 9.0 80 80 76
11/30/96 N2X 8.5 86 86 83
12/7/96 25K 9.0 87 84 82
12/12/96 N2X 8.5 90 87 83
12/13/96 25K 8.5 83 75 75
12/14/96 N1X 9.0 84 76 74
12/21/96 N2X 8.5 86 85 82
12/26/96 25K 9.0 89 87 87
12/28/96 N1X 9.0 83 82 78
12/31/96 40K 9.0 94 85 81
3/18/97 N2X 8.5 90 88 85
3/19/97 35K 9.0 90 85 82
3/23/97 N1X 9.0 86 80 80
3/28/97 35K 9.5 89 82 80
3/29/97 N2X 9.0 102 88 74
4/8/97 35K 8.5 90 89 88
4/19/97 35K 9.5 93 91 90
4/21/97 N1X 8.5 83 80 79
4/21/97 35K 9.0 87 80 73
4/23/97 N2X 8.5 91 89 89
5/3/97 N1X 9.0 84 78 78
5/4/97 N2X 9.0 92 88 88
5/4/97 35K 8.5 90 88 80
5/14/97 25K 8.5 93 89 81
5/14/97 N2X 8.5 86 86 85
5/31/97 22K 9.0 86 84 80
5/31/97 N1X 8.5 89 79 79
6/5/97 35K 8.5 86 85 84
6/11/97 N1X 8.5 84 84 84
6/14/97 20K 8.5 82 80 78
6/15/97 30K 8.5 94 86 84
6/21/97 N1X 9.0 85 81 81
6/26/97 N2X 9.0 88 80 79
6/26/97 N2X 9.0 91 90 80
6/28/97 20K 8.0 91 84 80
6/28/97 25K 9.0 85 85 85
7/2/97 N1X 8.5 83 83 76
7/3/97 N1X 8.5 85 76 76
7/6/97 20K 8.5 85 82 82
7/9/97 35K 9.0 86 84 84
7/12/97 N1X 8.5 83 80 80
7/12/97 N1X 8.5 83 83 82
7/13/97 20K 8.5 82 82 81
7/16/97 N2X 9.0 85 82 78
7/17/97 25K 8.0 90 85 71
7/17/97 25K 8.0 94 90 89
7/30/97 20K 8.5 86 86 85
7/31/97 N2X 8.5 86 84 84
8/1/97 22K 8.5 89 82 79
8/1/97 22K 8.5 87 84 82
8/3/97 N1X 8.5 94 86 85
8/8/97 20K 8.0 81 79 78
8/9/97 N2X 8.0 88 87 84
8/9/97 25K 8.5 84 79 79
8/16/97 20K 8.5 89 82 81
8/16/97 N1X 8.5 97 87 81
8/17/97 20K 8.5 82 82 82
8/29/97 N1X 9.0 90 84 80
8/31/97 22K 8.5 80 79 78
8/31/97 N2X 9.0 88 88 83
9/6/97 N1X 8.5 84 84 80
9/12/97 16K 8.5 84 84 82
9/16/97 22K 8.5 90 89 88
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 20:05:33.79
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: Itbaya win photos [3052]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I'll be picking up the Itbaya win photos on
Friday and getting them out in the mail on Saturday.
Any local partners wanting to grab theirs at the track
should let me know.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 20:04:52.53
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: The Pud [3035] [3051]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Steve Lewis was being interviewed by the Associated
Press. He was laying it on pretty thick.
They stopped by to talk to me before Dawn's race and
I'm sure I'll make the papers. I said that Arlington's closing was
a good thing because someone has finally taken action as
opposed to talking about changing things for Illinois racing.
I'm dying to see how that statement reads when it hits the
wires.
Cal
----------
From: Terry Bjork
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 1997 3:16 PM
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: The Pud [3035]
Looked real good on the track pre-race. Got a good start and then
settled at the back of the pack inside going into the 1st turn, well
back of the leaders. Moved up some on the backstretch, and went into
the 2nd turn 4th (or 5th). Had a good position in 4th coming into the
stretch, still on the inside, with a few horses in front but a clear lane
to
run in. Made a run down the top of the stretch but flattened out to
finish in 4th, maybe 4 or 5 back of the winner. Couple of longshots
finished 1-2 on a moderate pace.
No mishaps, no excuses. Garrett always had plenty of room. Just wasn't
fast enough.
Went off as the 9/5 fave.
Big crowd of VOPsters on hand including Mike Sasso and clan,
Steve Lewis, Steve Brannon, Dale who it seems never has to work,
Karan Z., Bob B., Mark Alesia, Cal and Sally, and I don't know who
else as the little owner's tent was getting too crowded so I went down
by the rail to watch the race and particularly the stretch run.
As I left Steve Lewis was getting interviewed by someone and was
lying his ass off. ;-)
Made good money on race #2 betting the 4. Lost it back on the Pud.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 17:59:48.81
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Re: "End of an Era?" [2932] [3050]
---------------------------------------------------
Mark wrote:
> Partners,
>
> If you have a chance to pick up the Daily Herald on Friday, please
>check out the special section "End of an Era?" If you're at Arlington,
>the paper is giving it away as part of a promotion. I did much of the
>writing and design, and I'm kind of proud of it. It's a 12-page tabloid
>on the history of the track,..........
>
> -- Mark
>
Last weekend, AP said that they'd be giving away lots of T-shirts and
Arlington Million poster, too.
If the Starting Gate (2nd fl) is still open, they're selling their books at
50% off. They have Nafzger's Traits of a Winner, Helm's A Breed Apart, and
the old standby, Feldman's Woulda Coulda Shoulda (or Coulda Shoulda Woulda,
whatever).
Last Saturday, AP was giving out coupons for a free hot dog at Trackside or
at the Mudbug; hope none of you missed that really great prize! Sunday, the
coupon was for FREE admission to the same places; admission at the Mudbug is
$1, big deal. I can hardly wait for tomorrow's coupon, probably $0.50 off a
program at Balmoral. :^)
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 17:16:42.97
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Eudora pro 3.0 [3049]
---------------------------------------------------
V's,
Those of you using the above e-mail program, there is a free download at
their site. www.eudora.com
It includes pgp (encryption program). Beware its 9.1 mg
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 16:55:29.22
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Pud [3035] [3047]
---------------------------------------------------
Terry:
I was only lying about you! Actually the interview was from the Associated
Press. They were asking questions about how owners felt about Arlington
closing. They reporter also seemed very interested in the VOP ownership
angle for a future story. They asked for a number to contact us in the
future.
First the Associated Press then the White House. Is that moving up or down?
I'm so confused.
GOOOOOOOO BLACKHAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 16:54:51.63
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Partnership blues [3042] [3046]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_KoW0QabGMPl3+2SrxnKgjg]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Steve/all,
Just image how the 6 horses who finished behind him today
feel....beaten by a pud
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_KoW0QabGMPl3+2SrxnKgjg]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:47:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: Re: Partnership blues [3042]
To: biggestal2@webtv.net, virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <971009174609_1045127183@emout14.mail.aol.com>
A dollar a year is too much for Unsold!
Steve Lewis
--Boundary_[ID_KoW0QabGMPl3+2SrxnKgjg]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 16:51:12.66
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: re: the Pud [3045]
---------------------------------------------------
Drew wrote:
>Three races and three checks in three days. Somebody's
>going to have a lot of work to do on the Web page. ;-)
Neener. Someone already has it all done and ready to upload this
evening, at least the front page.
BTW Drew - give me the URL of your VOPalooza page again. Hopefully
tonight the "official" VOPalooza page will also be added to the site, with
a link to Drew's page.
Send your response to tlbjork@ais.net as I'm about ready to head out
of here.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 16:50:38.57
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: Re: Partnership blues [3042] [3044]
---------------------------------------------------
A dollar a year is too much for Unsold!
Steve Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 16:46:13.62
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: re: Unsold and licensing [3043]
---------------------------------------------------
Bob Bowman wrote:
> We have to figure out where we can run. If we have to avoid
>other partnerships then we can't run in Kentucky, Indiana,
>(Post Call) California, New Jersey, Florida (CRT) and ...
We can run anywhere we don't have a VOP partner involved in the
horse we want to run who is also a partner in another partnership's
horse, and where we can get licensed.
For instance, if no one in VOP horse A is also in Post Call then we
can run in Kentucky. Etc. It all boils down to who is on the partner's
list. In Louisiana we only turned in the names of those who owned
pieces of the horses we intended to run there (which was all last year
but will be substantially less this year).
The list above, which should technically include New York, Maryland,
Delaware, Virginia, Arizona, and Pennsylvania (all CRT-licensed), are
states where we need to be very careful, but are not states where we
could never run.
I do not expect CRT to license every single CRT partner in Florida; just
those who have a horse with Keith. My name will not be turned in as a CRT
partner, for instance, as I technically don't have a piece of any CRT
horses
right now. My piece of the cheap gray filly is leased out and only runs in
AZ
in the first place. CRT partners who only own in AZ and Cal. and MD will
not
be turned in for Florida licensing. Nor would I expect VOP to try and
license every single partner in every horse if we were just sending one.
It is not as bad as it seems, but in the case of Unsold and Florida we do
have a problem with Joe Calvo (and possibly others) that would have
to get resolved before Wes could go there, perhaps by leasing, although
I think technically that's kind of a shady approach and the rules on this
differ in every state as well (California was a real stickler about this,
with
written lease agreements required and all sorts of hoop-jumping).
And of course I don't think he should go to FL in the 1st place anymore
than
he should go to Louisiana. Sam Houston - that's a different story. ;-) And
maybe someone would claim the Pud off us there, which is an extremely
unlikely outcome in either FL or LA.
We do need to know the specific rules in each and every state. Those of
you who weren't here at the beginning can't imagine all the baloney we
had to go through for Illinois. Getting our Kentucky license was a piece of
cake. Louisiana was somewhere in between. But we still don't know the
specific dual-stable name rules for either KY or LA.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 16:42:12.85
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Partnership blues [3042]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
If we do vote to send the flash to Florida at the end of
the month.....the only person person effected is Joe Calvo....Joe could
do as Terry did in arizona and Lease his share back to the partnership
for a dollar a year.......I am sure this is doable...Can anybody think
of why this can't be done?
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 16:32:27.72
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Re: The Pud [3035] [3036] [3041]
---------------------------------------------------
Drew wrote:
>
>Three races and three checks in three days. Somebody's
>going to have a lot of work to do on the Web page. ;-)
>
Thanks for the new pics of Poppy, Terry.
Next time, let's hope that they all show nobody in front of her, just space
and a finish line!
Debby D
>
>====================================================
> Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
> I don't know and I don't care.
>----------------------------------------------------
>Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
>====================================================
>
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 16:21:39.27
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Dueling Partnerships [3040]
---------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, RTBOWMAN wrote:
> We have to figure out where we can run. If we have to avoid
> other partnerships then we can't run in Kentucky, Indiana,
> (Post Call) California, New Jersey, Florida (CRT) and ...
The only thing we HAVE to avoid is partners hiding behind two aliases at
the same venue (as many others have already posted).
I think the gentleperson's agreement that has CRT and VOP avoid operating
in the same geographic region should be terminated, but I'm not worried
about growing a partnership. If VOP had one or two horses and ten
partners, that would be fine with me.
I'm a free market proponent, so giving one partnership a regional monopoly
looks inefficient to me (obligatory pompous, academic sounding statement).
Let the money flow to the partnership doing the best job.
I think a toe-to-toe rivaly with CRT would be a lot of fun.
Hope this isn't too controversial,
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 16:13:12.45
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: The flash [3039]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Another 4th....I am gonna cry.......780
into the bank..........another close but no cigar
after yesterday Itsy win I had high hopes for the flash ran 4 by 5 1/4
lengths...what a life.....
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 15:48:00.36
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Unsold [3037] [3038]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_rvSKG0GkXhOFzxGPdH70JA]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Bob,
CRT east partnership ran village fair twice at Belmont
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_rvSKG0GkXhOFzxGPdH70JA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 15:34:44 -0500
From: RTBOWMAN
Subject: Unsold [3037]
To: Virtual Owners Partnership
Reply-to: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net
Message-id: <343D3FE4.50B4@prodigy.net>
Organization: Prodigy Internet
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
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Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
I went to the track to watch Unsold run.
I'll leave the race commentary to others who saw the race.
I watched Gomez take him to the back and settle him in about 8th.
The I lost him on the back stretch and didn't pick him up again
until the stretch.
I did get there before the second race though and found
Liane sitting alone in the paddock. Talked to her for a few
minutes about Unsold.
I mentioned the talk about selling Unsold and that a number
of owners weren't ready for that step yet. I asked what she
thought about Unsold after Hawthorne.
She said that depending on what he did at Hawthorne, a
couple week layoff and then try a couple races at FG and
we could still make the January sale at that time.
I said that I had reservations about running Unsold at FG
after last year results. Liane said his efforts weren't that
bad and she thought it was a little tough for him last year
coming off of injury and catching some tough fields.
I also asked her about next year when Arlington closes.
Liane said that if we needed to we could send a horse to
Kentucky for a race. I pointed out that we have a lot of
discussion currently on the list about running in states where
we have partners in other partnerships. She basically said
that it was a problem with a partnership like ours and went
to watch the second race.
We have to figure out where we can run. If we have to avoid
other partnerships then we can't run in Kentucky, Indiana,
(Post Call) California, New Jersey, Florida (CRT) and ...
I guess we're forever locked to Chicago and FG unless we
want to try Saratoga or Belmont.
Bob B.
--Boundary_[ID_rvSKG0GkXhOFzxGPdH70JA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 15:44:11.81
From: IN%"RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net"
From: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net
Subject: Unsold [3037]
---------------------------------------------------
I went to the track to watch Unsold run.
I'll leave the race commentary to others who saw the race.
I watched Gomez take him to the back and settle him in about 8th.
The I lost him on the back stretch and didn't pick him up again
until the stretch.
I did get there before the second race though and found
Liane sitting alone in the paddock. Talked to her for a few
minutes about Unsold.
I mentioned the talk about selling Unsold and that a number
of owners weren't ready for that step yet. I asked what she
thought about Unsold after Hawthorne.
She said that depending on what he did at Hawthorne, a
couple week layoff and then try a couple races at FG and
we could still make the January sale at that time.
I said that I had reservations about running Unsold at FG
after last year results. Liane said his efforts weren't that
bad and she thought it was a little tough for him last year
coming off of injury and catching some tough fields.
I also asked her about next year when Arlington closes.
Liane said that if we needed to we could send a horse to
Kentucky for a race. I pointed out that we have a lot of
discussion currently on the list about running in states where
we have partners in other partnerships. She basically said
that it was a problem with a partnership like ours and went
to watch the second race.
We have to figure out where we can run. If we have to avoid
other partnerships then we can't run in Kentucky, Indiana,
(Post Call) California, New Jersey, Florida (CRT) and ...
I guess we're forever locked to Chicago and FG unless we
want to try Saratoga or Belmont.
Bob B.
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 15:31:42.38
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: The Pud [3035] [3036]
---------------------------------------------------
>As I left Steve Lewis was getting interviewed by someone and was
>lying his ass off. ;-)
Maybe he's gearing up for a career in politics. Then
he could get something done about those pesky licensing
laws.
>Made good money on race #2 betting the 4. Lost it back on the Pud.
Three races and three checks in three days. Somebody's
going to have a lot of work to do on the Web page. ;-)
====================================================
Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care.
----------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
====================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 15:18:20.70
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: The Pud [3035]
---------------------------------------------------
Looked real good on the track pre-race. Got a good start and then
settled at the back of the pack inside going into the 1st turn, well
back of the leaders. Moved up some on the backstretch, and went into
the 2nd turn 4th (or 5th). Had a good position in 4th coming into the
stretch, still on the inside, with a few horses in front but a clear lane
to
run in. Made a run down the top of the stretch but flattened out to
finish in 4th, maybe 4 or 5 back of the winner. Couple of longshots
finished 1-2 on a moderate pace.
No mishaps, no excuses. Garrett always had plenty of room. Just wasn't
fast enough.
Went off as the 9/5 fave.
Big crowd of VOPsters on hand including Mike Sasso and clan,
Steve Lewis, Steve Brannon, Dale who it seems never has to work,
Karan Z., Bob B., Mark Alesia, Cal and Sally, and I don't know who
else as the little owner's tent was getting too crowded so I went down
by the rail to watch the race and particularly the stretch run.
As I left Steve Lewis was getting interviewed by someone and was
lying his ass off. ;-)
Made good money on race #2 betting the 4. Lost it back on the Pud.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 14:59:19.74
From: IN%"punchman@COMMUNIQUE.NET" "Glenn Punch"
From: punchman@COMMUNIQUE.NET
Subject: David Verrett [3034]
---------------------------------------------------
Sorry to everyone for this..
David or Bart,
Beep me 477-7706
Brian
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 14:39:31.79
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Wes' Race Results [3033]
---------------------------------------------------
From the AP result page:
#8 Alfred's Bluff
#10 Refiner's Challenge
#11 Sangue
A profitable race for some: $2 EX 722.00
$2 Tri 3402.60
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 14:39:09.71
From: IN%"channic@kcco.com" "Tom Channic"
From: channic@kcco.com
Subject: Unsold Yields [3032]
---------------------------------------------------
A solid fourth for the Flash today. Make that purse winning streak
an even dozen. He took off from the gate like the race was 1/8 of
a mile but Gomez quickly reeled him in. He maintained good position
throughout and moved up on the leader in the stretch but the
pace was just too slow (49+ ; 1:14) for him to catch the front
runners.
Better luck at Hawthorne,
Tom C.
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 14:29:43.04
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Wes finishes up the track [3031]
---------------------------------------------------
Race is offical 8-10-11.
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 12:27:42.29
From: IN%"Dale.Herman@tellabs.com"
From: Dale.Herman@tellabs.com
Subject: Re: Unsold Race changes [3030]
---------------------------------------------------
I forgot to add: Track Muddy, Turf Yielding.
>Race 3
>
>3 - Prince Of Arabia: Scratched
>7 - Onetimeforbrittany: Scratched
>9 - +1
>10 - Refiners Challenge, jockey T.B.A.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 12:23:24.75
From: IN%"Dale.Herman@tellabs.com"
From: Dale.Herman@tellabs.com
Subject: Unsold Race changes [3029]
---------------------------------------------------
Race 3
3 - Prince Of Arabia: Scratched
7 - Onetimeforbrittany: Scratched
9 - +1
10 - Refiners Challenge, jockey T.B.A.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 12:22:47.39
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: re: Joe P. does it ... [3028]
---------------------------------------------------
Mike Sasso wrote:
>It's all our race now.
Let's hope so. I'm a little leery of the Pud going 1-1/8 myself, but I sure
hope I am wrong! On my way out the door ...
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 11:48:17.42
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: Joe P does it again [3027]
---------------------------------------------------
I wrote:
>>Just talked to the racing office at 10:45 CDT and found out that Prince of
Arabia was scratched<<
Hey Joe: You get your bet down in early bird wagering? Thanks, pal. Ask and
you shall receive, huh?
It's all our race now. Too bad I'm probably gonna get stuck in a meeting and
miss the race. I'm sending family members to represent me in the winner's
circle though.
-Mike Sasso-
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 11:32:28.64
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: Internet World article [3026]
---------------------------------------------------
Anyone have a copy of this they could send me?
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 11:11:24.57
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: Prince of Arabia Scratched [3024]
---------------------------------------------------
Just talked to the racing office at 10:45 CDT and found out that Prince of
Arabia was scratched. The race is still on the turf.
-Mike Sasso-
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 10:20:06.91
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: RE: Eddie Lives! [3016] [3022]
---------------------------------------------------
>>Anyway, I can't remember if MF has run on a yielding course
before.<<
Not in his races at AP. He ran on a "Good" course at FG and of course he
didn't do so good.
It seems like it's almost always overcast when he runs and the turf has
taken some rain in a couple of his AP races even though the course wasn't
listed as "yielding". I rememeber one race in particular when I spoke to
Hershcell before the race and was told that it was a little soft and giving
a bit. So he's experienced a course that's been a little soft.
I remember Wally out at Tower Farm commenting to me that he thought the pud
(don't think he called him that) might like a soft course because of his
apparently sensitive feet. That's just one man's opinion though. It's all up
to that darn horse. He's one of those horses that needs a perfect trip, and
fortunately we've got a jock that gives us a great opportunity to get that
trip.
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com@INTERNET on Thu, Oct 9, 1997 9:11 AM
Subject: Eddie Lives! [3016]
Y'all,
I just got a collect call from Matamoros, Mexico. On the other end of
the line, in a bit of an unstable state, was Crazy Eddie. He said, fear
not! He said the Chicago area will get some showers this morning, but
that it will clear up a bit around 11:00 a.m. (is this Chicago time or
Matamoros time?). He said the turf course may come up a bit yielding,
but he expected the race to stay on the turf. He didn't say anything
more. It sounded like the phone hit the floor and then it when dead.
Either Taco Bell had a problem or Eddie pasted out. Anybody taking odds
on which? Anyway, I can't remember if MF has run on a yielding course
before. Does anybody know if he has and if so how did do?
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 09:55:52.88
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Arlington Web Page Selections [3020] [3021]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_dBsPW3yC6jysDYCsvczVbQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Bob/all,
This is the same handicapper who said Itsy's would run out
too.......this handicapper couldn't pick his or her nose.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_dBsPW3yC6jysDYCsvczVbQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 09:46:11 -0500
From: RTBOWMAN
Subject: Arlington Web Page Selections [3020]
To: Virtual Owners Partnership
Reply-to: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net
Message-id: <343CEE33.4B37@prodigy.net>
Organization: Prodigy Internet
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
> 3rd - clmg. $20000-- 3yo & up purse $13,000 1 1/8 miles
> 1, Siberian Sun, E. Razo, 113, 12-1
> 2, Unsold (GB), Gomez, 117, 5-2
> 3, Prince of Arabia, Steiner, 115, 6-1
> 4, Shy Beau, Diaz, 113, 12-1
> 5, Clarin Bridge, Guidry, 118, 12-1
> 6, Angel of No Mercy, Fires, 113, 8-1
> 7, Onetimeforbrittany, Shurtz, 117, 30-1
> 8, Alfred's Bluff, Meier, 113, 15-1
> 9, Maple Leaf Express, Sibille, 113, 10-1
> 10, Refiners Challenge, Baird, 117, 20-1
> 11, Shangue, Silva, 117, 9-2
> 12, Keel Creek, Macias, 118, 20-1
>
> SHANGUE runs best on this surface, worried about the post.
> PRINCE OF ARABIA ships in from Ellis, look for a late run.
> ANGEL OF NO MERCY likes the fron end, Fires will make sure
> he is there.
--Boundary_[ID_dBsPW3yC6jysDYCsvczVbQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 09:52:20.86
From: IN%"RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net"
From: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net
Subject: Arlington Web Page Selections [3020]
---------------------------------------------------
> 3rd - clmg. $20000-- 3yo & up purse $13,000 1 1/8 miles
> 1, Siberian Sun, E. Razo, 113, 12-1
> 2, Unsold (GB), Gomez, 117, 5-2
> 3, Prince of Arabia, Steiner, 115, 6-1
> 4, Shy Beau, Diaz, 113, 12-1
> 5, Clarin Bridge, Guidry, 118, 12-1
> 6, Angel of No Mercy, Fires, 113, 8-1
> 7, Onetimeforbrittany, Shurtz, 117, 30-1
> 8, Alfred's Bluff, Meier, 113, 15-1
> 9, Maple Leaf Express, Sibille, 113, 10-1
> 10, Refiners Challenge, Baird, 117, 20-1
> 11, Shangue, Silva, 117, 9-2
> 12, Keel Creek, Macias, 118, 20-1
>
> SHANGUE runs best on this surface, worried about the post.
> PRINCE OF ARABIA ships in from Ellis, look for a late run.
> ANGEL OF NO MERCY likes the fron end, Fires will make sure
> he is there.
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 09:43:44.97
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Streaking Out [3018] [3019]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_BkmQSezctgMJ3U2h2RHEDQ]
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Tom,
What!!!! I don't win!!! I demand a recount!!!!
Who is the other partner who had the chuzpah
to pick Itbaya.......and thought NAT would come though for the streak.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_BkmQSezctgMJ3U2h2RHEDQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 09:34:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Channic
Subject: Streaking Out [3018]
Sender: channic@clark.devl.kcco.com
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: Tom Channic
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 09:34:31(CDT) on October 09, 1997
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X-Mail-From: channic@kcco.com
X-Sender-IP-Address: 172.17.1.5
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
She was third morning line favorite to break the winless streak at 5-1 --
"the class of VOP" was the comment. Was a true bargain when she went
off at 6-1 yesterday. Itsy and Guidry made it look easy! Purse winning
streak continues resoundingly and is now at 11. (Patience, Allan. You are
now in a heated tie breaker with one other partner who also picked Itbaya.
Lucky for you, you get to cheer for the purse streak to continue.)
Two winless streaks are over. 21 for Itsy, 22 for VOP.
Let the winning streaks continue! The Miami Flash can put VOP
OVER 11% WINNERS for the AP meet today.
Go Unslowed!
Tom C.
--Boundary_[ID_BkmQSezctgMJ3U2h2RHEDQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 09:37:30.07
From: IN%"channic@kcco.com" "Tom Channic"
From: channic@kcco.com
Subject: Streaking Out [3018]
---------------------------------------------------
She was third morning line favorite to break the winless streak at 5-1 --
"the class of VOP" was the comment. Was a true bargain when she went
off at 6-1 yesterday. Itsy and Guidry made it look easy! Purse winning
streak continues resoundingly and is now at 11. (Patience, Allan. You are
now in a heated tie breaker with one other partner who also picked Itbaya.
Lucky for you, you get to cheer for the purse streak to continue.)
Two winless streaks are over. 21 for Itsy, 22 for VOP.
Let the winning streaks continue! The Miami Flash can put VOP
OVER 11% WINNERS for the AP meet today.
Go Unslowed!
Tom C.
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 09:23:17.83
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: re: itsy's win [3017]
---------------------------------------------------
Drew wrote:
>I wanna know who killed our odds. At 3 minutes to post,
>we were 4-1. At 1 minute to post, we were 5-2. Based on
>the payout, though, we ended up at 3-1. Maybe Joe P was
>only *pretending* not to bet!
I was wondering, too. The track program had us at 12-1 or 20-1 or
something like that I believe, but first click of the tote she was at 7/2,
and stayed pretty steady in that range. She did have the best, most
consistent TSN speed ratings in the Equibase (program) pp's, and she
was the best looking horse on the track (there were some really ratty
looking fillies and mares running in that race), and then of course the 1a
scratched out in the post parade, which dumped all the #1 money
back into the pool as the plain 1 had already been declared.
I didn't hear whether she was mentioned in the pre-race prognostications
by Scott McMannis or not. I don't think so.
I guess this two years of form darkening we've done just to engineer
a big betting coup was a waste of time. ;-)
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 08:54:47.18
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Eddie Lives! [3016]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I just got a collect call from Matamoros, Mexico. On the other end of
the line, in a bit of an unstable state, was Crazy Eddie. He said, fear
not! He said the Chicago area will get some showers this morning, but
that it will clear up a bit around 11:00 a.m. (is this Chicago time or
Matamoros time?). He said the turf course may come up a bit yielding,
but he expected the race to stay on the turf. He didn't say anything
more. It sounded like the phone hit the floor and then it when dead.
Either Taco Bell had a problem or Eddie pasted out. Anybody taking odds
on which? Anyway, I can't remember if MF has run on a yielding course
before. Does anybody know if he has and if so how did do?
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 08:52:57.90
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: Races still on turf [3015]
---------------------------------------------------
Spoke to the AP racing office at 8:30 a.m. CDT and was told "so far races
are still on the turf".
The ground is wet, there are some puddles, but it hasn't rained around here
in a couple weeks. Hopefully the turf held the water well. It is still
cloudy and a little windy, but it seems that the rain might be over.
-Mike Sasso-
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 08:47:35.17
From: IN%"tmills@bal.alibrary.com"
From: tmills@bal.alibrary.com
Subject: Itbaya's Win [3013]
---------------------------------------------------
VOP,
Congratulations on Itbaya's win yesterday!
Terry & Kate Mills
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 08:27:22.99
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: Itsy [3010]
---------------------------------------------------
Congrats to all the Itbaya owners, our trainer, and of course Itsy herself.
It was a well deserved win after coming so close so many times.
-Mike Sasso-
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 08:13:05.52
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: itsy's race [3008] [3009]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_f62FkwR1fTNkLX0U16L3tA]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Drew/all,
The one was a late scratch
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_f62FkwR1fTNkLX0U16L3tA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 09:06:23 -0400
From: Drew
Subject: itsy's race [3008]
To: virtual owners
Message-id: <1335734587-3479133@ctnet.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Well, as some have mentioned I'm sure pleased to get a
winner's circle photo from the last week of racing at AP.
Way to go Itsy! She looked mighty fine.
I wanna know who killed our odds. At 3 minutes to post,
we were 4-1. At 1 minute to post, we were 5-2. Based on
the payout, though, we ended up at 3-1. Maybe Joe P was
only *pretending* not to bet!
The consecutive "in the money" streak is intact, but the
"winnerless" streak is broken! Let's keep the winning
streak alive this afternoon.
====================================================
Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care.
----------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
====================================================
--Boundary_[ID_f62FkwR1fTNkLX0U16L3tA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 08:08:30.77
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: itsy's race [3008]
---------------------------------------------------
Well, as some have mentioned I'm sure pleased to get a
winner's circle photo from the last week of racing at AP.
Way to go Itsy! She looked mighty fine.
I wanna know who killed our odds. At 3 minutes to post,
we were 4-1. At 1 minute to post, we were 5-2. Based on
the payout, though, we ended up at 3-1. Maybe Joe P was
only *pretending* not to bet!
The consecutive "in the money" streak is intact, but the
"winnerless" streak is broken! Let's keep the winning
streak alive this afternoon.
====================================================
Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care.
----------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
====================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 07:48:07.32
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: RE: PS Itsy's win [3007]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal wrote:
> Y'all,
>
> Miss Shy Bladder kept Dale and I there to 7PM.
> She was fine after the race. Why shouldn't she be? She
> didn't run hard. 8^)
Just had to ask. White Tex looked fine after his win, too. :-(
Plus I saw the horse ambulance coming off the backside after Itsy's
race.
Just checking. Thanks for the good news.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 07:33:15.30
From: IN%"RBDN74A@prodigy.com"
From: RBDN74A@prodigy.com
Subject: Internet Message [3006]
---------------------------------------------------
It does feel good! Congrats to Liane, Cal and us all..........
Let's get that win picture for Unsold now.....
Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 07:32:13.83
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: Weather [3002] [3005]
---------------------------------------------------
Post time for the 3rd: 1:57PM CDT. Still scattered showers in the area, but
not heavy at all, nor was the rain last night. Just got everything a tad wet.
At 08:13 AM 10/9/97 -0400, Chris & Lynn Cronin wrote:
>Intellicast says partly cloudy in Chicago...of course, they're generally
>wrong. It's supposed to rain in Detroit. When is post time?
>
>Lynn
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 07:17:52.76
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: Weather [3002]
---------------------------------------------------
Intellicast says partly cloudy in Chicago...of course, they're generally
wrong. It's supposed to rain in Detroit. When is post time?
Lynn
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 07:07:08.93
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: PS Itsy's win [2992] [3001]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Miss Shy Bladder kept Dale and I there to 7PM.
She was fine after the race. Why shouldn't she be? She
didn't run hard. 8^)
Cal
----------
From: Terry Bjork
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 1997 10:35 PM
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: PS Itsy's win [2992]
Cal/Dale -
How'd she come out of it?
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 06:18:35.59
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: weather in Chicago [3000]
---------------------------------------------------
Chicago partners,
What's up or more plainly what's coming down
the weather channel had morning rain forecast .......com'n let it stay
on he turf. Where's eddie when we need him!
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 02:49:35.14
From: IN%"jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu" "Jen Roth"
From: jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: Itsy's Win [2998] [2999]
---------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, MR JIM S FITZWATER wrote:
> Someone said for everyone to do the same thing tomorrow for Wes's
> race....I was, unfortunately, painting my house. Guess I better
> pickup the brush again..... Anyway, congrats to all.
Jim,
I have some trim in my living room that still needs painting...feel free
to come down. All in the interest of another VOP win, of course. :)
--
Jen Roth
jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu
Thank you for not dumping core.
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 02:40:10.41
From: IN%"RJVS65A@prodigy.com"
From: RJVS65A@prodigy.com
Subject: Itsy's Win [2998]
---------------------------------------------------
Add my congrats to all of the Itsy owners and all of VOP for that
matter. I hope our young lady is taking notes from her older stable
mate.
Someone said for everyone to do the same thing tomorrow for Wes's
race....I was, unfortunately, painting my house. Guess I better
pickup the brush again..... Anyway, congrats to all.
Jim
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 00:58:08.01
From: IN%"jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu" "Jen Roth"
From: jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu
Subject: Chicago Casino Report [2997]
---------------------------------------------------
My God.
I think people here had discussed this, but I've only been skimming my
email of late.
The Chicago Racing Report *sucks*.
I mean, it really sucks.
It's like they forgot what the title of the show was.
I am absolutely kicking myself for not trying harder to get off work this
afternoon.
Bummedly, (and no, that's not my early Derby pick!)
--
Jen Roth
jen@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu
Thank you for not dumping core.
VOP MAIL PAGE
9-OCT-1997 00:25:42.30
From: IN%"bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET" "B.Brandt"
From: bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET
Subject: YES, WINNER [2996]
---------------------------------------------------
Congrats to all the owners and us all.....This is what its all about
Somebody get that man his WIN PICTURE!!!
Brian B
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 22:16:56.68
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Get the shoe polish [2995]
---------------------------------------------------
Congrats to itsy partners.
Allen gets the initiation for his 1st win!!!!!.............
What track did she run at?
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 20:49:46.75
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Itbaya chart [2994]
---------------------------------------------------
Arlington International - October 8th, 1997 - Race 9
Claiming - For Thoroughbred Three Year Old and Upward Fillies and Mares
About One Mile on the Turf
Minimum claiming price: $14,000 Maximum claiming price: $16,000
Purse: $13,500 Reverts: $6,480
Includes/Plusses: $7,371 (Other sources)
Value of Race: $14,391 1st $8,100, 2nd $2,700, 3rd $2,376, 4th $810, 5th $405
Off at: 4:38 Start: Good for all
Track: Firm Weather: Cloudy
Pgm Horse Name (Jockey) Wgt Med/Eq PP SP 1/4 1/2
3/4 Stretch Finish Odds
--- --------------------------------- --- ------ -- --- --------
-------- -------- -------- --------- --------
5 Itbaya (Guidry, M.) 117 L b 4 3 4-1 1/2 4-1
3-1 1-4 1-4 3.00
3 Tungeda (Fires, E.) 117 f 2 6 6-4 5-Head
5-1 2-1 2-3/4 1.50*
6 Nice Star (Lasala, J.) 115 L b 5 9 9 7-1/2
7-Head 3-Head 3-Head 20.00
7 Turbo Lady (Perez, E.L.) 113 L bf 6 4 5-1 6-6
6-1 1/2 4-1 1/2 4-4 23.20
8 A Derby Day Wedd (Sibille, R.) 117 L 7 7 7-1 8-1/2
9 6-1 5-Neck 26.30
9 Navajo Move (Silva, C.) 119 L b 8 5 3-1/2 3-4
1-1/2 5-1 6-1 2.70
10 Nice Bet Matt (Emigh, C.) 117 L 9 8 8-Head 9
8-4 7-4 7-8 7.40
2 Womanwithanattitud (Baird, E.T.) 113 L b 1 2 1-1 1/2 1-1
1/2 2-3 8-5 8-4 22.80
4 Blush's Show Boat (Meier, R.) 113 L b 3 1 2-1 1/2 2-Head
4-1 9 9 40.90
Winner : Itbaya - Chestnut Mare, 1991
Pedigree: Palace Music - Hagley's Miss, by Hagley
Breeder : Allen E. Paulson in KY
Claiming prices: Itbaya: $16,000; Tungeda: $16,000; Nice Star: $14,000;
Turbo Lady: $14,000;
A Derby Day Wedd: $16,000; Navajo Move: $16,000; Nice Bet Matt:
$16,000;
Womanwithanattitud: $14,000; Blush's Show Boat: $14,000
Scratched horses: Rita Rucker, Annapolis Fan
Fractional Times: 23.78 47.94 1:12.32 1:37.30
Pgm Horse Name Win Place Show
--- ---------- --- ----- ----
#5 Itbaya 8.00 3.40 3.00
#3 Tungeda 3.00 2.80
#6 Nice Star 6.20
Wager Type Winning Numbers Payoff Pool Carryover
Daily Double 6-5 32.00 23,629.00
Daily Double 6-1 17.80
Exacta 5-3 22.60 66,896.00
Quinella 3-5 11.20 8,403.00
Superfecta 5-3-6-7 441.80 47,819.00
Trifecta 5-3-6 131.40 66,760.00
#5 Itbaya: allowed to settle, circled field, drew off
#3 Tungeda: middle of pack, gaining, up for place
#6 Nice Star: slow early, gaining stretch
#7 Turbo Lady: middle of pack, mild rally
#8 A Derby Day Wedd: slow early, best stride late
#9 Navajo Move: second flight, led late outfinished
#10 Nice Bet Matt: slow early, no factor
#2 Womanwithanattitud: set pace, faded
#4 Blush's Show Boat: broke sharply, tired
Owners: 5--Virtual Owners Partnership; 3--Danny Hutt, Bill Schaffnick &
Robert Quackenbush;
6--Ronald Schwed & Moises R. Yanez; 7--Just Meddles; 8--Gary Tussey
& Tom Dorris; 9--Shirley Webb;
10--Curt Franson & John Sladek; 2--J. Mullen, J. & F. Guertler, J. &
F. Holas; 4--Thomas F. Metzen
Trainers: 5-Liane P. Davis, 3-Danny Hutt, 6-Moises R. Yanez, 7-David
Hinsley, 8-Tom Dorris, 9-Paul Darjean,
10-Lon Wiggins, 2-Scott S. Holas, 4-Bernell B. Rhone
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 20:43:05.96
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: PS Itsy's win [2992]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal/Dale -
How'd she come out of it?
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 20:40:16.28
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Itsy's win [2991]
---------------------------------------------------
Well partners I have to tell you - wtaching that winner today
was the 3rd sweetest I've ever had: 1) Major 2)Itsy N1X 3) today
Almost makes it all worthwhile. ;-)
I'll see what I can do about getting a tape.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 20:27:55.01
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: Hey Joe [2990]
---------------------------------------------------
OK, I'm not superstitious by nature (at least not overly so), but
Joe, I'll BET you can't resist betting tomorrow...
Does that work?
Or, at the risk of being really crude...nah, I don't really want to post
that! Tell ya what, everyone do EXACTLY what they did today, and if The
Flash finishes in front of all the other horses (no "w" word, but I'm
NOT superstitious), I'll tell you all what I was going to say.
Lynn
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 20:16:12.85
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Re: ITSY WINS? [2967] [2989]
---------------------------------------------------
Joe P.,
If all it takes to get VOP to the winner's circle is for you to keep your
wallet shut...................well need I say
more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 20:13:10.63
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Itsy Rules the Day [2988]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPers,
Who sez the old girl can't run. A very nice race by Itsy today and after
more than our share of rough trips it was great to see Guidry give Itsy the
perfect trip for her run style. My 3rd win photo as a VOPer by 3 different
horses. Pappy, are you listening?
Here's hoping that the Flash will continue the farewell to AP tour
tomorrow with another victory.
Darrell B.
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 19:36:36.34
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: the flash's race [2986]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Still VERY excited about Itsy win...very goodwhen rita
scratched.....now that Itsy has broken her drought there is no reason
the pud can't do it too...so here sports fans are the weston kiss of
death picks for the flash's race
1. siberian sun--the flash smashed him in his last two outing see no
reason for improvement
tossarooski
3. Prince of arabia----Carroll send this one across state lines for an
easy score he thinks the flash might have other ideas.
4. shy beau--beaten easily by the pud last out
another horse tossed
5. Clarin bridge-beaten 5 by the pud last time out had extreme outside
post which didn't help still has GUidry and is a minor threat
6. angel of no mercy---has some speed but ALWAYS spits the
bit.......noski...toss
7. one timeforbrittany---fairmount park invader
horse is by that famous turf sire shadow in the dark.....does have John
henry's sire as his broodmare sire but still I am gonna toss
8. Alfreds bluff--showed nice move against fast early fractions and
paid the price...should be there with a better ride this time
9.Maple Leaf Express --another horse who set wicked fractions and quit
10. refiners cahlange--ran close to Breakfast club last out
11. shanague--had minor trouble when heading the pud in his last if he
can work out trip
12. Kell creek-----was just smashed for 8knw2l
and is by chef de race Tricky creek and has an outside post to
boot....yeah bet the ranch on this one..lots of positives
here.......NOT...weston KOD auto toss
2. Unsold---Gomez up we shall see how good a jock he is cause we all
know the Pud is a @$#% handfull must be ridden with the utnost care not
too fast in the beginiing not too slow like last out....he needs to be
handled with kid gloves and than pushed otherwise he'll pull himself up
I've thrown out about half the field...and about 3 other will fight for
4 thru 6....Mr Bowman iskerrect Prince of Arabia will be tough...and
Shangue from the outside poses a problem if he ca work out a trip and
Unsold gets the master rider GOMEZ (I hurts saying it but I holld no
grudges).........most probable finish 3-2-11
but I'll be betting on the Flash
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 19:35:37.45
From: IN%"kgrace@injersey.com" "Ken Grace"
From: kgrace@injersey.com
Subject: Re: winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!winner!!!!!!!!!!! [2968] [2985]
---------------------------------------------------
Allan,
Did you leave your VOP tee shirt at home this time?
BTW, we old-timers want our winner's circle picture, too!
Ken G.
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 19:07:13.35
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: [Fwd: Hooray for Itsy!] [2984]
---------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 20:02:09 -0400
From: Chris & Lynn Cronin
Subject: Hooray for Itsy!
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Message-id: <343C1F01.24A7@voyager.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
I knew it was good news when I opened up my e-mail and had to wait while
56 messages loaded. Congratulations to Itsy and her people! Eddie,
don't let us down--we need another dry day!
Lynn
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 19:07:01.43
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Unsold [2965] [2983]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 10/9/97 6:16:32 AM, horse@sdsinfo.com wrote:
<>
Mark,
Ever been to Woodbine? Wiiiiiiiiiddddddde! ;-)
Bob P.
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 18:47:56.67
From: IN%"Sunwalker@warpnet.net" "Sunwalker Ostrich Ranch"
From: Sunwalker@warpnet.net
Subject: FW: ITSY WINS? [2967] [2982]
---------------------------------------------------
Joe
I don't suppose you'd consider not betting on Nat's
next race, would you? :)
Ed " I'll try anything" Blair
----------
From: Pacheco, Joe[SMTP:joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 1997 4:48 PM
To: 'virtual-owners@vop.org'
Subject: ITSY WINS? [2967]
Partners,
Super Tote has the winner of the ninth at Arlington as #5. Finish
5-3-6. Unless I'm doing serious drugs, Itsy won.
Joe P
(Only of course because I didn't bet it)
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 18:14:09.12
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: ITSY WINS? [2967] [2969] [2976] [2981]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_UjU80mUX8pPbK9Rlk8pZPA]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Partners,
I forgot about Joe calvo as a first time itsy owner,Heres
to the you, joe
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_UjU80mUX8pPbK9Rlk8pZPA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 17:17:00 -0500
From: debbderl@UIC.EDU (Debby Derlacki)
Subject: Re: Fwd: ITSY WINS? [2967] [2969] [2976]
X-Sender: debbderl@POP3SERV7.cc.uic.edu
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <199710082221.RAA20483@eeyore.cc.uic.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
>Joe,
> Hell yes Itsy won....gimme my winners circle picture......hell
>give me 2.......I am sure Darrell and Deby as new owners want one
>too.....
>
> Allan
>
You bet I do! That's definitely a MORTAL LOCK. WOW.... she really did it!
Holy Cow! How about a tape, too? WOW, this has improved my day 1000%.
Atta way Itsy...not bad for an *old* lady.
Debby D
--Boundary_[ID_UjU80mUX8pPbK9Rlk8pZPA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 18:02:19.22
From: IN%"oaklawn@apci.net" "Robert J. Hillebrand"
From: oaklawn@apci.net
Subject: Re: Itsy Wins [2978] [2980]
---------------------------------------------------
Congratulations to the proud owners if Itbaya. Nice work, and glad that
non-win streak has ended. It appears that all we needed was to get away from
AP, where it was definitely a long, hot summer.
Bob Hillebrand
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 17:51:24.55
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Re: winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!winner!!!!!!!!!!! [2968] [2979]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 10/9/97 8:01:01 AM, biggestal2@webtv.net wrote:
<>
Congratulations Allan, and all Itsy owners!
Snuck quietly out of the office at 3:30 to catch Itsy on the tube at Cby.
Wow, what a perfect ride! She just galloped to the 3/8th's pole then Guidry
turned her loose. I knew when she passed the dying speed just past the
quarter pole that there'd be no catching her. Itsy looked a little like
Cigar down the lane.
AND I HELD A TICKET THAT READ $5 TRI 3-5/3-5/1-6-7-9-10 TO BOOT!
Great afternoon! Allan, congrats. I hope to break MY maiden soon with
Paparouna.
Havin fun now!
Bob P.
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 17:32:54.01
From: IN%"LREN83A@prodigy.com"
From: LREN83A@prodigy.com
Subject: Itsy Wins [2978]
---------------------------------------------------
Congratulations to all Itsy's Owners, Liane, and Cal. Its been a
long dry spell, may bee VOP can string some wins together.
Steve Ostman
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 17:26:38.63
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Cold exacta [2977]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
I ain't even goona talk about MR cold exacta I
picked....that would be bragging
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 17:26:15.20
From: IN%"debbderl@UIC.EDU"
From: debbderl@UIC.EDU
Subject: Re: Fwd: ITSY WINS? [2967] [2969] [2976]
---------------------------------------------------
>Joe,
> Hell yes Itsy won....gimme my winners circle picture......hell
>give me 2.......I am sure Darrell and Deby as new owners want one
>too.....
>
> Allan
>
You bet I do! That's definitely a MORTAL LOCK. WOW.... she really did it!
Holy Cow! How about a tape, too? WOW, this has improved my day 1000%.
Atta way Itsy...not bad for an *old* lady.
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 17:22:58.75
From: IN%"malesia@home.com"
From: malesia@home.com
Subject: Itbaya win [2975]
---------------------------------------------------
Just got back from the track. I'm not an Itbaya partner, but I felt
like it during the stretch run. Great to see a VOP winner's circle photo
being taken! I clapped with a rolled up Form through the whole thing. I
gave Cal a high-five as the VOPsters left the winner's circle. I didn't
mind cashing my win ticket, either. Let's do it again tomorrow. Go
Flash.
-- Mark
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 17:18:45.19
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: AND IT WASN'T EVEN CLOSE [2974]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Itsy crushed this field by 4
Allan
ps-of course we cuaght a break when RITA scratched I wonder why
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 17:09:07.22
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: STREAK CONTEST Tote [2883] [2973]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_xfVYkNx0tXduihzKH+/vwQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Tom,
When do I get my prizes
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_xfVYkNx0tXduihzKH+/vwQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 15:27:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Channic
Subject: STREAK CONTEST Tote [2883]
Sender: channic@clark.devl.kcco.com
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: Tom Channic
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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X-Mail-From: channic@kcco.com
X-Sender-IP-Address: 172.17.1.5
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Weekend wagers favored youth it seems. Still plenty of time to vote
for a) the next Vop horse to win a race, and
b) the final number for the current VOP purse-winning streak (now 9).
Winner gets:
1) Valuable on-line text charts for all of Arlington's
"Give me slots or give me death" season.
2) Whiskey sour mix (while supplies last)
DA ODDS
Now Fri. M/L
Paparouna 2-1 8-1 7-2
Itbaya 5-1 7-2 5-1
Kristy L's Halo 5-1 7-2 6-1
Unsold 5-1 7-2 7-1
Dance Naturally 11-1 8-1 4-1
Lady Lomond 11-1 8-1 10-1
NextHorse(tm) 99-1 99-1 18-1
Check Streak Over/Under: 13 1/2 and steady
Keep those votes coming! (What say you, Elvis?)
Tom C.
--Boundary_[ID_xfVYkNx0tXduihzKH+/vwQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 17:08:04.15
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Liane and Mark [2972]
---------------------------------------------------
Liane and Mark,
This buds for you a great job well done
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 17:06:17.09
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: ITSY WINS? [2967] [2971]
---------------------------------------------------
CONGRATULATIONS ITSY PARTNERS!!!! A couple droughts end! From Equibase...
9th race - Arlington International - October 8th, 1997
Post time: 4:38 Race Type: Claiming
Age Restriction: Three Year Old and Upward
Sex Restriction: Fillies and Mares
Value of Race: $14,391
Distance: About One Mile
Surface Type: Turf Track Condition: Firm
Winning Time: 1:37.30
Pgm Horse Name Jockey Win Place Show
# 5 Itbaya Mark Guidry 8.00 3.40 3.00
# 3 Tungeda Earlie Fires 3.00 2.80
# 6 Nice Star Jerry Lasala 6.20
Also ran:
7 - Turbo Lady, 8 - A Derby Day Wedd, 9 - Navajo Move,
10 - Nice Bet Matt 2 - Womanwithanattitud
4 - Blush's Show Boat
Scratched horses: Rita Rucker, Annapolis Fan
Daily Double 6-5 32.00
Daily Double 6-1 17.80
Exacta 5-3 22.60
Quinella 3-5 11.20
Superfecta 5-3-6-7 441.80
Trifecta 5-3-6 131.40
Winning Breeder: Allen E. Paulson
Winning Owner: Virtual Owners Partnership
Winning Trainer: Liane P. Davis
At 04:48 PM 10/8/97 -0500, Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>Partners,
>Super Tote has the winner of the ninth at Arlington as #5. Finish
>5-3-6. Unless I'm doing serious drugs, Itsy won.
>Joe P
>(Only of course because I didn't bet it)
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 17:02:52.75
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Hell we got Drew his WC picture [2970]
---------------------------------------------------
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 16:59:08.66
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: ITSY WINS? [2967] [2969]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_R7xJJ+thUdBmf28WJnHvUg]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Joe,
Hell yes Itsy won....gimme my winners circle picture......hell
give me 2.......I am sure Darrell and Deby as new owners want one
too.....
Allan
ps--joe,
I knew you were bad luck all of the time
--Boundary_[ID_R7xJJ+thUdBmf28WJnHvUg]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 16:48:47 -0500
From: "Pacheco, Joe"
Subject: ITSY WINS? [2967]
To: "'virtual-owners@vop.org'"
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Partners,
Super Tote has the winner of the ninth at Arlington as #5. Finish
5-3-6. Unless I'm doing serious drugs, Itsy won.
Joe P
(Only of course because I didn't bet it)
--Boundary_[ID_R7xJJ+thUdBmf28WJnHvUg]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 16:52:58.56
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!winner!!!!!!!!!!! [2968]
---------------------------------------------------
partners, ITSY WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
give me my winners circle picture the first one of my
horseownership career
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 16:52:43.27
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: ITSY WINS? [2967]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Super Tote has the winner of the ninth at Arlington as #5. Finish
5-3-6. Unless I'm doing serious drugs, Itsy won.
Joe P
(Only of course because I didn't bet it)
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 16:13:50.42
From: IN%"info@infowatch.net"
From: info@infowatch.net
Subject: Advertisement: Website Hosting [2966]
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VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 15:18:34.62
From: IN%"horse@sdsinfo.com" "Mark DeVine"
From: horse@sdsinfo.com
Subject: Unsold [2965]
---------------------------------------------------
Just caught up on my E-Mail after being away and it looks like Unsold is
once again a lightning rod for the VOP partnership issues & dilemmas. I
wonder which horse would assume that burden if we sold him. I
was happy to see that the usual flame wars have been avoided so far.
Someone asked about what my thoughts might be on Unsold, so here goes.
I thought that Lynn's post about each of us getting involved with different
goals hit the nail on the head. Mine was to learn about owning racehorses &
have fun without losing too much money. Unfortunately in Unsold's case the
flame wars & animosity of the partners took the fun out of owning the horse.
This would be the main reason I would vote to sell the horse. I have doubts
that this partnership can get along long enough to do us or the horse any
good. The other reason I would vote to sell him is to avoid tax/licensing
problems. If there are tax/licensing consequences to an east coast circuit
then I'd rather cut our loses & move on. I had to deal with the IRS
this year also, so I'm not crazy about any more complex tax or licensing
situations. OTOH 7K is not very much money for a horse that I personally
haven't given up on yet.
The gambler in me says since we aren't talking about selling for much money,
why
not take a shot at the East coast circuit. Maybe the partners could get along
for another year. Maybe he'll find a situation he likes & run
well. The realist says it's going to cost 20K & while I think he might be
competitive in spots, he's going to be in with tougher horses then he is
running
with now. More than likely he will make enough money to pay some, but not
all of his
expenses.
So while I wouldn't mind selling him, I'm not opposed to the idea of running
him in Fl/NJ.
I think the license/tax issues have to be resolved, & has anyone been able
to find
out if Keith Sirota wants him? It would also be nice to talk to him before we
commit a horse to him. Is he willing to deal with multible partners on an
occasional
basis (I've called Liane twice since I started in VOP)?
Who knows maybe he'll end up down here at Colonial Downs near Richmond, VA.
They've
built the widest turf course I've ever seen, so they must be planning on
using it
quite a bit next year.
Mark D.
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 14:32:28.84
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: Wes Situation [2946] [2950] [2953] [2960] [2963] [2964]
---------------------------------------------------
Debby Derlacki et al.
At 02:15 PM 10/8/97 -0500, Debby Derlacki wrote:
>>Y'all,
>>
>> The issue is fairly straight-forward. You cannot
>>race under more than one alias in any state. Circle CD
>>exists is spirit and silks only.
>>
>>Cal
>>
>>
>>On Oct 8, 11:59am, Tom Channic wrote:
>>> Subject: Re: Wes Situation [2946] [2950] [2953]
>>>
>>> I'm also confused about the multiple aliases. Cal, how do you race under
>>> both Circle D and VOP in Illinois?...........
>>> Tom C.
>>
>If I remember the program listings correctly, when MBD runs, the owners are
>listed by actual name rather than as Circle CD ie Lianne Davis, Cal Jestice
>etc. Thus, they are not under an *alias*.
>If we don't run under the VOP alias, how would they list all the owners? 8>)
>Debby D
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 14:25:10.67
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Re: Wes Situation [2946] [2950] [2953] [2960] [2963]
---------------------------------------------------
>Y'all,
>
> The issue is fairly straight-forward. You cannot
>race under more than one alias in any state. Circle CD
>exists is spirit and silks only.
>
>Cal
>
>
>On Oct 8, 11:59am, Tom Channic wrote:
>> Subject: Re: Wes Situation [2946] [2950] [2953]
>>
>> I'm also confused about the multiple aliases. Cal, how do you race under
>> both Circle D and VOP in Illinois?...........
>> Tom C.
>
If I remember the program listings correctly, when MBD runs, the owners are
listed by actual name rather than as Circle CD ie Lianne Davis, Cal Jestice
etc. Thus, they are not under an *alias*.
If we don't run under the VOP alias, how would they list all the owners? 8>)
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 13:14:31.86
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: licensing [2961]
---------------------------------------------------
Joe P. wrote:
>When the idea of sending Wes to FL last
>year came up, to my memory, this issue about partnerships was never
>brought up.
Last year CRT had no plans to run in Florida.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 12:26:37.77
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Itsy Race Changes [2957]
---------------------------------------------------
1 - Rita Rucker: Scratched
3 - Tungeda: Jockey T.B.A.
10 - Nice Bet Matt: Jockey T.B.A.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 12:18:11.21
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: re: Wes situation [2955]
---------------------------------------------------
Chris J. wrote:
>I am severly lacking knowledge in this licensing area, beyond what's been
>posted recently. However. Do the various state rules apply to partnerships
>as a whole? Seems like they should only apply to individual horses (with
>respect to the way internet partnerships are structured), while
maintaining
>the rule that you can't use more than one "alias" in one state.
It should apply just to the partners in any given horses we have running in
a state. In the current situation, Joe Calvo would be the only partner with
a conflict - as far as I know. But the laws in each state are different and
there are different requirements which I do not know.
>Has CRT addressed this issue, and do they have a position? Can anyone who
>is involved in both groups shed any light? Terry? Cal?
CRT has not addressed the two Internet partnerships issue because they have
studiously avoided running anywhere VOP is running. Any of their limited
partners who own horses outside CRT have had to get officially "out" of CRT
in Arizona
like I did. Toni's own horses in Arizona and California run under her
husband's name. They do have other partners running horses outside of CRT
in both California and Maryland but I'm not sure how that is being handled.
Mostly they run under the partners' names rather than a stable name, but
there is at least one instance of another stable name. I will find out how
they are handling all this.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 12:14:35.65
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Itsy a winner? [2954]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Itsy may win today since I decided not to bet on the race. This should
improve her chances dramically. Good luck to her partners.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 12:00:13.50
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: re: DN entries [2952]
---------------------------------------------------
Geez. Nice co. email. I sent that on Monday!
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 11:42:07.34
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: Wes Situation [2946] [2950]
---------------------------------------------------
I am severly lacking knowledge in this licensing area, beyond what's been
posted recently. However. Do the various state rules apply to partnerships
as a whole? Seems like they should only apply to individual horses (with
respect to the way internet partnerships are structured), while maintaining
the rule that you can't use more than one "alias" in one state.
To try to clarify... Let's say I'm part of VOP, but am only financially
involved with Wes. Let's also say I'm in CRT, but only involved in a horse
that runs in Califormia. Now let's say VOP wants to run Wes in Florida,
where CRT is already running. Since I'm not financially involved in any CRT
horses in Florida, I'm only using one alias there. I don't see myself as
using CRT as an alias, as far as Florida is concerned.
By common sense (which may have nothing to do with legally), the conflict
would only come into play if my California CRT horse were shipped to
Florida, and I'm now using two aliases in Florida racing. If I understand
it correctly, VOP is really a collection of partnerships -- VOP5 = Hooper,
VOP6 = Unsold, VOP7 = Lady, etc. Is this true?
Has CRT addressed this issue, and do they have a position? Can anyone who
is involved in both groups shed any light? Terry? Cal?
-- Chris
At 10:05 AM 10/8/97 -0500, Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>Partners,
>
>Over the past few days I have been thinking (which usually gets me in
>trouble) about the Wes to FL issue and how we could face problems with
>partners running under two aliases. Basically put, if a partner in VOP
>is a partner in another partnership, CRT for example, VOP can not
>legally run in the same state that the other partnership is racing
>(legal relative to those states we know). Thus, according to the
>information that has been posted, if we have VOP partners that are also
>members of CRT and CRT decides to run a horse in Louisiana, VOP will be
>precluded from racing there (translation, if CRT expands dramatically,
>we might as well forget racing outside Illinois). Also, let's say
>Darrell, Allan and I decide to partner on a turf horse "Pud II", running
>under the colors of the "Bad Break Barn", and we decide to race this
>horse on the Louisiana/Texas circuit. This would cause VOP a major
>problem if VOP planned to run in LA. I assume the resolution would be
>for Allan, Darrell and myself to divest ourselves of ownership positions
>in our VOP horses, but what if we were not reasonable people and wanted
>to be jerks? Result: Problem for VOP.
>
>It appears to me that VOP, as long as it has partners that are in other
>racing partnerships, is going to be restricted in the states it can run
>in. As other partnership groups form that will compete with VOP, this
>problem is going to get greater and more restrictive. I think we need
>to address this issue ASAP. When the idea of sending Wes to FL last
>year came up, to my memory, this issue about partnerships was never
>brought up. I had always hoped that a VOP horse might tour the Texas
>circuit so I could get a chance to experience the fun our Chicago
>partners experience. The odds of this happening are bleak. I propose
>we form a committee to look into this issue. It would be great if we
>could get a representative from each state we have a partner in to be on
>this committee. Each representative would be responsible for contacting
>the state racing authority to determine if the partnership/alias problem
>exists in that state. The committee should also appoint a person to be
>the liaison with each of the partnerships that we "compete" with to
>discuss the issue with them and see if we can come up with some ideas
>(Since they will face the same problem). Maybe we can even work to get
>the laws changed, since this virtual partnership phenomena is so new and
>it will only help racing, the states might consider chancing the laws
>(You never know). I also think we need to have each partner provide Cal
>with a list of other partnerships they are in out side of VOP, and what
>state they operate out of , so we can avoid can conflicts in the future.
> Who knows, we may be in violation today. Sorry for such a long post,
>but I think we need to address this issue or we are going to
>dramatically impacted in the future.
>Joe P
>
>P.S. I volunteer to be the representative from Texas
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 10:20:53.57
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: RE: Unsold ML fav [2934] [2949]
---------------------------------------------------
It's overcast in Chicagoland this morning. The latest weather report calls
for T-storms throughout the night and clearing tomorrow with a few scattered
storms lingering early in the day. Doesn't look to good, but we've ridden
out the storms a few times in the past with Unsold. Bloody English weather!
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
From: biggestal2@webtv.net@INTERNET on Tue, Oct 7, 1997 8:03 PM
Subject: Unsold ML fav [2934]
Partners,
Well we "finally" got GOMEZ on Unsold...all I can say he
had better come though, Mike
:-)
He is facing about the same horses he faced last time in this class
sans of course Breakfast club who is not eligible so that bad boy better
run for his supper...now about the weather...oh please oh please stay on
the grass Dickie d. you'll have a couple of years to let the turf
recover for the 1999 Million so please let it stay
Allan
ps---my wife is bellow...calling for me I was going to post about new
jersey track slot bill but that I will save for another day
Chow for now partners
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 10:18:53.79
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: haw [2943] [2948]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 8, 9:55am, mikep@ameritech.net wrote:
> Subject: haw [2943]
> Cal,
>
> What are licensing or owner id requirements at Haw?
>
> Are we on a list?
Current owners will need to get a new sticker
for their license and a new parking pass. Use your
AllTrax card for admission. The guards at Hawthorne
are cool about letting you in with expired AP credentials.
Cal
>
> ap
>-- End of excerpt from mikep@ameritech.net
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 10:14:28.35
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: recapture [2944] [2947]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 7, 10:33am, Terry Bjork wrote:
> Subject: recapture [2944]
>
> > The government can't get their hands on it
> >unless they increase the take out. The tracks have
> >been getting it and Sportsmans and Hawthorne are
> >willing to let it end to boost purses and get more
> >horses. Arlington was the big fan of recapture.
>
> I assume this is just voluntary on the part of HAW and SPT.
> Any chance it will get written out of law while AP's back is
> turned?
There's an interview with Gene Lamb (IRB chairman)
in tomorrow's racing form about recapture. The IRB will be
recommending to the state legislature that action be taken
this fall to eliminate recapture starting in 1998. Gene is
also recommending the state take-out be lowered to help handle.
Cal
>
> I know the ITHA was working on another "non-slots" bill that
> would have eliminated recapture.
>
> Terry
>-- End of excerpt from Terry Bjork
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 10:09:07.16
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Wes Situation [2946]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Over the past few days I have been thinking (which usually gets me in
trouble) about the Wes to FL issue and how we could face problems with
partners running under two aliases. Basically put, if a partner in VOP
is a partner in another partnership, CRT for example, VOP can not
legally run in the same state that the other partnership is racing
(legal relative to those states we know). Thus, according to the
information that has been posted, if we have VOP partners that are also
members of CRT and CRT decides to run a horse in Louisiana, VOP will be
precluded from racing there (translation, if CRT expands dramatically,
we might as well forget racing outside Illinois). Also, let's say
Darrell, Allan and I decide to partner on a turf horse "Pud II", running
under the colors of the "Bad Break Barn", and we decide to race this
horse on the Louisiana/Texas circuit. This would cause VOP a major
problem if VOP planned to run in LA. I assume the resolution would be
for Allan, Darrell and myself to divest ourselves of ownership positions
in our VOP horses, but what if we were not reasonable people and wanted
to be jerks? Result: Problem for VOP.
It appears to me that VOP, as long as it has partners that are in other
racing partnerships, is going to be restricted in the states it can run
in. As other partnership groups form that will compete with VOP, this
problem is going to get greater and more restrictive. I think we need
to address this issue ASAP. When the idea of sending Wes to FL last
year came up, to my memory, this issue about partnerships was never
brought up. I had always hoped that a VOP horse might tour the Texas
circuit so I could get a chance to experience the fun our Chicago
partners experience. The odds of this happening are bleak. I propose
we form a committee to look into this issue. It would be great if we
could get a representative from each state we have a partner in to be on
this committee. Each representative would be responsible for contacting
the state racing authority to determine if the partnership/alias problem
exists in that state. The committee should also appoint a person to be
the liaison with each of the partnerships that we "compete" with to
discuss the issue with them and see if we can come up with some ideas
(Since they will face the same problem). Maybe we can even work to get
the laws changed, since this virtual partnership phenomena is so new and
it will only help racing, the states might consider chancing the laws
(You never know). I also think we need to have each partner provide Cal
with a list of other partnerships they are in out side of VOP, and what
state they operate out of , so we can avoid can conflicts in the future.
Who knows, we may be in violation today. Sorry for such a long post,
but I think we need to address this issue or we are going to
dramatically impacted in the future.
Joe P
P.S. I volunteer to be the representative from Texas
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 10:06:10.92
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: DN entries [2945]
---------------------------------------------------
HAWTHORNE - October 7th, 1997 - Race 9
Breed: Thoroughbred
Race Type: Claiming Purse: $ 12,000
Age: Three Year Old and Upward Sex: Fillies and Mares
Distance: About 7 1/2 Furlongs Surface: Turf
PP Horse Name Age Sex Wgt Odds Claiming
Price
Jockey Name Trainer Name
1 Recidivist (FL) 4 Filly 114 20/1 $17,500
Earlie Fires Roy Houghton
Owner: Randall A. & Teresa Hillson
Breeder: Lucas Farm Inc
2 Dance Naturally (FL) 4 Filly 114 20/1 $17,500
Mark Guidry Liane Davis
Owner: Virtual Owners Partnership (Cal Jestice, Et Al.)
Breeder: John L. Peterson
3 Sarah's Approval (FL) 3 Filly 113 9/2 $17,500
Jesse Campbell Charles Vinci
Owner: Wexler Racing Stables, Inc. (Avers Wexler)
Breeder: Al Daugherty
4 Awesome Windsome (KY) 3 Filly 110 3/1 $17,500
Randall Meier George Getz
Owner: King of Notathing Stable (C. Jacobson, Et Al.)
Breeder: Wayne Garrison & Pam Garrison
5 Toomuchmoney (FL) 3 Filly 115 20/1 $17,500
Kelly Sampson Moises Yanez
Owner: Moises R. Yanez
Breeder: Betty Glazer
6 Starry Limits (IL) 3 Filly 108 20/1 $17,500
Megan Ludlow Jose Gonzalez
Owner: Elinor L. Salvino
Breeder: Elinor L. Salvino
7 Love a Little (FL) 4 Filly 114 15/1 $17,500
Abner Sorrows Jr William Lazuka
Owner: Margaret Lazuka
Breeder: Harold Crane
8 Brass Song (KY) 3 Filly 110 4/1 $17,500
Eusebio Razo Jr Christine Janks
Owner: Allen Tanis & Emerald Ridge Farm (Christine Janks)
Breeder: Weltenburg Stable
9 Toweroffemmefatale (KY) 5 Mare 114 10/1 $17,500
Carlos Silva James Jackson
Owner: James B. Jackson & Sanna Hoit
Breeder: Brereton C. Jones
10 Fast Irish Lass (KY) 3 Filly 113 5/2 $17,500
Shane Laviolette Lisa Merritt
Owner: Paul A. Gange
Breeder: Hickory Bark Thoroughbreds
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 10:05:56.54
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: recapture [2944]
---------------------------------------------------
> The government can't get their hands on it
>unless they increase the take out. The tracks have
>been getting it and Sportsmans and Hawthorne are
>willing to let it end to boost purses and get more
>horses. Arlington was the big fan of recapture.
I assume this is just voluntary on the part of HAW and SPT.
Any chance it will get written out of law while AP's back is
turned?
I know the ITHA was working on another "non-slots" bill that
would have eliminated recapture.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 09:59:45.80
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: haw [2943]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal,
What are licensing or owner id requirements at Haw?
Are we on a list?
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 08:16:37.56
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: Nat's Race [2942]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Summer just won't end in Chicago as the temperature
broke 80 degrees again yesterday. Seeing how Hawthorne is
almost an hour away, I took the whole afternoon off to get to the
races instead of just going for Nat's. Tried to get the good karma
building for the race, but the drive was spoiled when I found that
my wife had removed all of my CD's from the car and left all my
son's Barney tapes and disks. Not the right way to start.
Got to the track a little after 1PM, anxious to see how
the turf was playing. I wandered around for a bit and found Ed
Blair. I gave him a quick tour of the racing office and paddock.
He had to dash back to entertain his sister that afternoon and
we promised to meet up around the 8th race.
There were two turf races coming up for the second
and third, so I went up to ground level to watch the races. I
ran into Hershell who told me Guidry took off all of his mounts
for the day. Oooooh, bad karma starting again. He told me
we got Shane for the ride and Garrett for Unsold on Thursday.
OK, karma getting a little better. I watched the 2nd race and
the winner was inside and laying just off the pace. Good style
to see win considering how Nat usually runs. Karma was still
getting better. I moved upstairs to watch the third, especially
keen on how Shane was doing. He was on the favorite, a big
closer. After a half mile he had his horse tucked on the rail
and moved to the three path on the turn as his horse started
to roll. Then wham! One of the leaders bore out on the turf
and clipped heels with another horse. One horse was down
and two others ran over it. Horses and jocks were lying on
the ground and Shane was one of them. Bad karma starting
again. Jesse Campell was briefly knocked unconcious and
was taken to the hospital. Shane limped off the track and
Jerry Lasala walked off with no visible injuries. All three jocks
were off their mounts for the rest of the day.
I bump into Liane before the 4th race and she lets
me know that we have Ray. Ahhhh, the jock who got those
good works out of Nat. Good karma is building again. I talk
to Liane about the strategy for Nat's race and she's concerned
that the outside two horses have more natural speed than Nat
and if they really want the front, they can probably get it. She
is concerned about Nat hooking up or chasing a speed duel.
Her evaluation is that while it would be nice to get Nat to coast
on the front, it doesn't look likely and the consequences will
be great if she doesn't get it. If Ray get's the front easy, take
it. If not, rate her and let her roll down the stretch.
Between then and the eighth, I run into Jeff Yelke and
we swap losing exacta advice for a couple of races. Considering
the beautiful weather, I'm surprised I don't find more VOPsters
at the track. By the eighth race, I manage to fight back to break
even and decide to buy a few doubles with Nat, throwing out Kelly
Sampson on the favorite. Kelly Sampson gets the win and all my
$400+ doubles are gone.
Terry Bjork showed up just before the ninth race and
everybody went out to the apron to watch Nat walk in. Terry
thought Nat was "fatter" than usual. While Nat has always
been big, she didn't look fat. Nat has never had a lot of visible
muscle definition and today was no different. However, she
was moderately dapple and tucked in nicely. I followed Nat
into the paddock and kept a safe distance knowing how poorly
behaved she was at AP. Nat was very well behaved, especially
considering the tight confines of the Hawthorne paddock. She
kept her cool and didn't get washy. On the track, Nat looked
very good in the post parade. She was on her toes a bit and
looked very alert.
At the start of the race, the three horse broke a little
bit and slowed Nat's start. The other two speeds went gunning
and Ray settled back on the rail. Ray took Nat back into 7th
on the rail and she was moving very easily. By the half, she
was fifteen lengths off a 46:1 half. Ray definitely made the
right call by moving her back because Nat would have pooped
out trying to get near that pace. By 6f, Ray had Nat rolling down
the stretch. The field was bunching up and Nat had plenty of
steam left. With about a furlong left, Ray tried to move Nat
through a hole. When he was going through, the gap closed
and Ray checked Nat hard. She lost a lot of momentum, but
Ray got her moving again and passed the two horses who shut
her off and got up for 4th, beaten by three lengths.
Nat came back fine after the race. Liane and Ray were
very happy with Nat's effort. Ray knew he could have gotten third
if Nat didn't have to check and thought he would have been near
the win. Liane was very encouraged that Nat's shin problem is
behind her and that Nat was able to come off the pace. Hopefully
the shin stays calm and we can come back with Nat again before
the end of the month.
After the races, a few of us went over to Moose Skowron's[1]
tavern across from the track. It got two thumbs up for both food and
atmosphere and we should have a formal VOP post race gathering
there sometime in the future.
Cal
Footnotes:
1. Moose Skowron is a former major league outfielder who played
for Chicago and a couple of other teams. Moose is almost always
behind the bar and the place is loaded with baseball memorabilia.
$1 brewskis!
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 07:02:11.43
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Al Sleet [2941]
---------------------------------------------------
Your hippy-dippy weatherman with the hippy-dippy weather, man.
Unfortunately not much change, per Loyola and the weather channel:
Wed 83 - 65 M Cld
Thu 74 - 61 Scattered T-storms Ugh!
Fri 68 - 49 M Cld for closing day
Rain's supposed to start after midnight tonight.
VOP MAIL PAGE
8-OCT-1997 06:40:23.24
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: Chicago Racing [2906] [2909] [2910] [2913] [2940]
---------------------------------------------------
>> Out of curiosity, where will the harness races happen?
>
> Maywood and Balmoral.
Huh. I thought they were closed for good. Shows what
I know.
> I think Arlington will reopen, but only after
>the election year of 1998. Nothing is going to happen
>next year on most fronts as the politicians will not
>_do_ anything to cause a potential loss of votes.
Dammit, if a track is gonna close, they should have the
decency to stay that way. Why, in Cleveland, we've put
shopping malls and empty fields on top of our old tracks
just to make sure they don't come back to life like
Freddy Kruger.
====================================================
Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care.
----------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
====================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 23:52:35.26
From: IN%"ntouched@ix.netcom.com"
From: ntouched@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Please mail agreement forms to join VOP [2939]
---------------------------------------------------
I'm interested in joining VOP just for the fun and thrill in racing. I'm
purchasing shares across the country in partnerships. Please mail
sign-up forms to: Troy Moss 6509 Redbud Place Rancho Cucamonga, CA
91739.
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 23:41:33.86
From: IN%"RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net"
From: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net
Subject: Unsold's Race [2938]
---------------------------------------------------
At a glance ...
I'll give the win to Prince of Arabia
coming in from Ellis
didn't look bad in MSW at CD
first race for a tag
Place I'll give Angel of No Mercy
ran 30K & 35K open company last two
should improve at 20K NW2L
Show I'll call Unsold
I'd give him 2nd to 5th
but I'll go with 3rd with Gomez up
Bob B.
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 22:18:32.88
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Take him off! [2937]
---------------------------------------------------
Take sibille off pappy and Nat!
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 22:01:03.87
From: IN%"Sunwalker@warpnet.net" "Sunwalker Ostrich Ranch"
From: Sunwalker@warpnet.net
Subject: Another Turfer? [2936]
---------------------------------------------------
All
What a great effort by Nat today! If not for a couple
bad breaks I'd have been smilin' for that win photo!
Nat got squeezed between the 1 and 3 horse at the
break and was next to last by the time she got in stride.
Ray took her to the rail to save ground and took up the
hunt. Coming into the stretch, Ray floated her out from
the rail and set her down for the drive as a hole opened
in front of them.Just as she was getting up a head of
steam, the hole vanished as the two horses came back
together in front, causing Nat to check hard. Ray got her clear
and started to roll again, rallying for a 4th place check
despite the problems. A very fine effort indeed!
I dragged my little sister along for company today.
It was her first exposure to TB racing and I think she
enjoyed herself. She wanted me to apologize to the
partners for not betting on Nat. But she wanted to
thank Allan for the winning exacta on Nat's race.
It payed nicely and went a long way toward making
a new fan.
C'mon, Nat! I'm ready for the next one!
Exacta Ed
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 20:28:48.77
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: OTB's in NW Illinois [2935]
---------------------------------------------------
does anyone know if there's an OTB facility in the Galena-Dubuque-Platteville
triangle????
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 19:49:36.97
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Unsold ML fav [2934]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Well we "finally" got GOMEZ on Unsold...all I can say he
had better come though, Mike
:-)
He is facing about the same horses he faced last time in this class
sans of course Breakfast club who is not eligible so that bad boy better
run for his supper...now about the weather...oh please oh please stay on
the grass Dickie d. you'll have a couple of years to let the turf
recover for the 1999 Million so please let it stay
Allan
ps---my wife is bellow...calling for me I was going to post about new
jersey track slot bill but that I will save for another day
Chow for now partners
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 19:34:58.97
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Itsy's race [2933]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Not bad picking from this corner
in Nat's race just two postions from a stone cold superfecta......but
enough of the past here are the Weston Kiss of death selections for
Itsy's farewell race at AP
1. Womanwithanattitud---my wifes favorite horse better name for this
horse Old Quitter....right out of the box a weston KOD auto toss
2. Tungeta--- first of two Allen paulsen bred horses........this horse
was keeping high allowance company this spring and now drops like a rock
below what they paid for him last september....no activity since august
28 is an extremely negative sign......is the for sale sign on this horse
or what
3.rita rucker--the turf part of the entry inexpicibly entered on dirt
last out......I cannot think of a good reason can anyone would enter
this horse
on dirt given the success she's had on turf...one of the obvios speeds
in the race
4. Blush's Show Boat--Another horse who's gonna be looking up the track
at the winner
.........tossaroni
6.Nice star--had to go back to ilinios breds to pick up a win......itsy
beat this one 3 straight before her win...........toss
7. annapolis fan[probably enter in case this one comes off the
turf.....by that famous turf sire BOBs dusty...not with dickie d's
money...toss if she is not scratched
8. turbo lady---another non factor....toss
9. a derby day wedd----must have an idenity crisis has been in so many
barns in her carrer she might set a record---not a turf horse....toss
10. Navajo move-wired itsy and the bunch last out pevoius was a even
effort against rita
11. Nice bet matt---clunked up for 4th against move and itsy...guidry
abandons for Itsy
5. Itbaya---losing streak has hit 21...always tries and always gets
beat...guidry up in her AP finale.....run fast grand old mare
Well it comes down to this rita gets the lead
Navajo stalks and Itsy closes with tungeda the unknown..... call in in
order 1entry-6-10-3
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 19:17:12.57
From: IN%"malesia@home.com"
From: malesia@home.com
Subject: "End of an Era?" [2932]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
If you have a chance to pick up the Daily Herald on Friday, please
check out the special section "End of an Era?" If you're at Arlington,
the paper is giving it away as part of a promotion. I did much of the
writing and design, and I'm kind of proud of it. It's a 12-page tabloid
on the history of the track, with an analysis by our political writer on
whether this is really the end (she says yes). For out-of-towners, we're
a 130,000-circulation paper covering much of the Chicago suburban area.
I'd be happy to snail mail you a copy if you give me your address.
Thanks.
-- Mark
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 19:10:15.18
From: IN%"StLMo@aol.com"
From: StLMo@aol.com
Subject: Nat's Race [2931]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPsters,
Watched Nat's race at the OTB on Jackson. I couldn't tell that Nat got
bumped or broke poorly at the start. It simply looked as if Sibille was
trying to rate her. That was probably good in the long run as the early
leader opened up by six and the horse chasing her was up by another five on
the third place horse!
Nat was making a very good run at the top of the stretch but was stopped
COLD!! Sibille yanked her back real hard to avoid a squeeze play and she
lost all her action. However, she recovered and closed well. Third place
would have been a certainty and I think she would have been right there at
the finish. Do I dare say that we may have another turf horse?!
She looked very good in the post parade and ran above my expectations. It's
also nice to know that she can be rated.
Sure hope the rain stays away for Wes' race. Since it's the last day maybe
they will keep all the races on the grass provided there is no monsoon. But
please let's scratch if that race comes off the grass and look for a race at
Hawthorne. What can Arlington do to us - being the last day of the meet and
maybe the last race for a long time. I really hope that Unsold gets a couple
of races on the Hawthorne turf. Stretch runners are doing well provided they
are not hung out super wide turning for home.
Steve Moses
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 18:46:25.90
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: more on Sirota [2930]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Mr lewis asked about mr sirota turf record...so far I only
can offer antendotal info
Name of horse: warwhatisitgoodfor
trainer of horse: sirota
age of horse: 3
sex: gelding
turf races won:2
turf races placed:4
races won: nw1 at Hia on March 28
25k open clamer at meadowlands
on September 10
races placed: starter handicap 16k lost by nose
at monmouth june 8
20k open claimers at monmouth
on august 24
25k open claimer at monmouth
on august 28
nw2 at meadowlands lost by a
nose on september 24
this year trf earnings: 36k
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 18:39:35.91
From: IN%"Sally_Jestice-CSJ007@email.mot.com" "Sally Jestice-CSJ007"
From: Sally_Jestice-CSJ007@email.mot.com
Subject: Gomez to leave town [2929]
---------------------------------------------------
Tomorrow's Daily Racing Form's In Brief section has a short article titled
"Gomez heads to Hollywood Park" that states: " Garrett Gomez, leading jockey
at the Arlington International meeting that concludes Friday, will head for
the west coast next month and plans to ride there on a permanent basis,
agent Harry Hacek said Monday." He'll ride a few times a Hawthorne before
leaving.
Wouldn't it be nice to have an historical winners circle photo of Unsold
during the last week of Arlington with one of Garrett's last rides in the
Chicago area?
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 18:04:54.79
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Re: GAME PLAN? [2923] [2927] [2928]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPers,
In regard to Steve Lewis' complaints about Sibille's ride I would have to
agree (without having seen today's race) that we don't seem to be getting
much in the way of good trips when he is up. That said I think it is to our
benefit that Nat didn't try to run with the 7 horse today. The chart shows
the 7 up by 6 lengths at the half and then burning away to finish poorly.
The good news appears to be that Nat was ready to run with this group and
may have fared better with a clean trip. I would hope we will be looking for
a similar type turf race for her next out.
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 17:40:24.23
From: IN%"oaklawn@apci.net" "Robert J. Hillebrand"
From: oaklawn@apci.net
Subject: Re: GAME PLAN? [2923] [2927]
---------------------------------------------------
Nat could never have gotten the lead. The horse that went to the front--
whose name escapes me-- set torrid fractions and had a 6 length lead at the
top of the stretch; she then faded badly. Nat would have only burned herself
out trying to keep up.
Both replays showed Nat's getting bumped slightly after leaving the gate.
While she did not break on top, her start was not all that bad.
Bob H.
-----Original Message-----
From: Burgooking@aol.com
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Date: Tuesday, October 07, 1997 5:11 PM
Subject: GAME PLAN? [2923]
>Cal and Partners:
>
>First let me say that when I got to the OTB I was surprised to find
>out that Mr. Guidry had taken the day off. My next surprise was
>that the 10 had scratched from Dances race. Finally it was announced
>that Ray Sibille had taken the mount. Cal correct me if I am wrong but
>I thought that the game plan was for Dance to go for the lead. As far as
>my eyes could she she broke as well as the others and was put under
>a great restraint by Ray. So much for the lead game plan. The middle
>part of the race is a blurr as I was truly to busy wondering why when at
>7 1/2 furlongs on the turf we were laying 7th back some 15 lengths.
>
>Alas Dance still made a run until Ray decided to try to go through horses
>as oppossed to around them. After have to check and coming to a
>standstill, Dance finally found some running room to rally for 4th. It
>could have been worst Ray could have choked her completely out of the
>gate or he could have fallen off her in the stretch. Cal am I out of line.
>All I can remember is how Dance was going to be sent to the front.
>Did some great force intervene that I don't know about. Never again will
>I complain about Kelly Sampson. Ray's ride today takes the cake.
>
>For the partners information I did not have a large bet on Dance. But I
>do feel that Ray didn't give her any opportunity to win. 4th is better
than
>nothing but the way Dance had to check in the stretch certainly couldn't
>have done her legs any good. Am I missing something here? If so please
>help me out? Frustration has just been taken to a new level. One positive
>note it certainly appears that Dance deserves another chance at this level
>on the turf hopefully with a jock who follows the plan.
>
>Steve (FRUSTRATED) Lewis
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 17:33:37.03
From: IN%"oaklawn@apci.net" "Robert J. Hillebrand"
From: oaklawn@apci.net
Subject: Re: Nat 4th [2922] [2926]
---------------------------------------------------
The field was pared to nine entries. Guidry was not up on Nat; Sibille took
the ride.
Nat broke alertly but was immediately bumped slightly. She settled into 7th
and stayed there until the top of the backstretch. She started to move well
after she came off of the turn but then got badly squeezed by two horses.
This caused the jock to check her sharply, and she lost all of her action.
Sibille got her going again, and she came on strong, even though the horse
inside her carried her out as she approached the finish line. A good effort.
I doubt she could have caught the top two, but she was certainly good enough
for 3rd without the trouble.
A paycheck nonetheless.
Bob Hillebrand
-----Original Message-----
From: Allan Weston
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Date: Tuesday, October 07, 1997 5:07 PM
Subject: Nat 4th [2922]
Partners,
Results in
5-3-8-2
Nat rallied for 4th beated 3 lengths
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 17:29:22.50
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Nat's Race [2925]
---------------------------------------------------
Just looked up the results. Nat 4th with Sibille up. Definitely worth an
apple or two!
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 17:29:11.26
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Nat 4th [2924]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPers,
Anxious to hear details of the race from someone who saw it. The chart
says off slowly, no speed, rallied between horses. Did Nat get a bad start
and slowly make up some ground or was there an effert on Liane's part to have
Nat try and close.
I guess a $720 check for 4th isn't bad considering the splints and the 70
day layoff.
Details please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kudos to Allan--he called it 3-5-2-8. A tri box would have worked.
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 17:21:13.59
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: GAME PLAN? [2923]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal and Partners:
First let me say that when I got to the OTB I was surprised to find
out that Mr. Guidry had taken the day off. My next surprise was
that the 10 had scratched from Dances race. Finally it was announced
that Ray Sibille had taken the mount. Cal correct me if I am wrong but
I thought that the game plan was for Dance to go for the lead. As far as
my eyes could she she broke as well as the others and was put under
a great restraint by Ray. So much for the lead game plan. The middle
part of the race is a blurr as I was truly to busy wondering why when at
7 1/2 furlongs on the turf we were laying 7th back some 15 lengths.
Alas Dance still made a run until Ray decided to try to go through horses
as oppossed to around them. After have to check and coming to a
standstill, Dance finally found some running room to rally for 4th. It
could have been worst Ray could have choked her completely out of the
gate or he could have fallen off her in the stretch. Cal am I out of line.
All I can remember is how Dance was going to be sent to the front.
Did some great force intervene that I don't know about. Never again will
I complain about Kelly Sampson. Ray's ride today takes the cake.
For the partners information I did not have a large bet on Dance. But I
do feel that Ray didn't give her any opportunity to win. 4th is better than
nothing but the way Dance had to check in the stretch certainly couldn't
have done her legs any good. Am I missing something here? If so please
help me out? Frustration has just been taken to a new level. One positive
note it certainly appears that Dance deserves another chance at this level
on the turf hopefully with a jock who follows the plan.
Steve (FRUSTRATED) Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 17:20:05.12
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Nat 4th [2922]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Results in
5-3-8-2
Nat rallied for 4th beated 3 lengths
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 13:04:05.05
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Scratch the 10 [2920]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I just put in my wager for Nat's race and I was told there was no 10, so
assume it was scratched.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 11:57:08.30
From: IN%"milesm@slewpy.drf.com"
From: milesm@slewpy.drf.com
Subject: StableMail -- Unsold [2918]
---------------------------------------------------
This is a notice from the Daily Racing Form's online StableMail which
informs you when certain horses will be running in the near future. You
are receiving this message because Unsold is entered to run
in the 3rd race at Arlington Park on October 9, 1997. For more information
about the race, be sure to check out Daily Racing Form's web site
at http://www.drf.com/ or view the entries for this race at
http://www.drf.com/entries/09/APX.html.
You also wrote the following notes about this horse:
Other Information About this Race
---------------------------------
Race Type:
Purse: $13,000
Claiming Price for Unsold (if applicable): 20,000
Surface: About Turf
Distance: 1 1/8 Miles
Jockey: Gomez G K
Post Position: 2
# of horses in race: 12
--------------------------------
If you'd like to remove Unsold from your list of horses to watch,
go to the StableMail removal form at http://www.drf.com/stablemail/remove.html.
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 11:48:20.21
From: IN%"milesm@slewpy.drf.com"
From: milesm@slewpy.drf.com
Subject: StableMail -- Unsold [2917]
---------------------------------------------------
This is a notice from the Daily Racing Form's online StableMail which
informs you when certain horses will be running in the near future. You
are receiving this message because Unsold is entered to run
in the 3rd race at Arlington Park on October 9, 1997. For more information
about the race, be sure to check out Daily Racing Form's web site
at http://www.drf.com/ or view the entries for this race at
http://www.drf.com/entries/09/APX.html.
You also wrote the following notes about this horse:
Other Information About this Race
---------------------------------
Race Type:
Purse: $13,000
Claiming Price for Unsold (if applicable): 20,000
Surface: About Turf
Distance: 1 1/8 Miles
Jockey: Gomez G K
Post Position: 2
# of horses in race: 12
--------------------------------
If you'd like to remove Unsold from your list of horses to watch,
go to the StableMail removal form at http://www.drf.com/stablemail/remove.html.
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 10:04:28.80
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: Chicago Racing [2906] [2915]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-07 09:01:49 EDT, Bob B. writes:
<< I don't know how bad Illinois racing will get next year but did you
hear that the Chicago Racing Report show is being picked up by the
Comedy Channel?
>>
I heard that Bob....but they only picked up the reruns!!
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 10:04:07.59
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: STREAK CONTEST Tote [2883] [2899] [2914]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-07 06:26:34 EDT, you write:
<< It was by
accident that we didn't get a piece of him, and boyoboyoboyoboy are we
glad we missed that one. >>
well then keep your comments to the ones u didnt miss, Elvis!!!!
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 09:59:45.05
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: Chicago Racing [2906] [2909] [2910] [2913]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 7, 10:09am, Drew wrote:
> Subject: Re: Chicago Racing [2906] [2909] [2910]
>
> Out of curiosity, where will the harness races happen?
Maywood and Balmoral.
>
> Although I've had some of these same thoughts, I'm a
> little less than optimistic. I mean, with so much money
> at stake, you can bet somebody in the racing or govern-
> ment establishments will get their hands on it.
The government can't get their hands on it
unless they increase the take out. The tracks have
been getting it and Sportsmans and Hawthorne are
willing to let it end to boost purses and get more
horses. Arlington was the big fan of recapture.
>
> Still, though, it sounds like Chicago Racing is shedding
> some inefficiencies, and that's beneficial to everyone.
>
>
> So does anyone have an opinion as to whether Arlington
> is gone for good? This isn't the first time that AP has
> threatened to go away, but it's certainly the most con-
> vincing bluff we've seen so far. Does anybody think that
> Dickie D will reopen the track in two or three years,
> saying that things have changed to the point where he
> can now operate profitably?
I think Arlington will reopen, but only after
the election year of 1998. Nothing is going to happen
next year on most fronts as the politicians will not
_do_ anything to cause a potential loss of votes.
Cal
>
>
> Go Tribe!
>
> -- Drew
>-- End of excerpt from Drew
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 09:52:33.31
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: Nat's race [2886] [2912]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 6, 4:49pm, Pacheco, Joe wrote:
> Subject: Nat's race [2886]
> Anybody have an opinion on Nat's race.
Y'all,
It's an interesting test for Nat today. She's coming
off her shin problems in great shape and gets the meet's leading
jockey for the ride. 7.5f turf races at Hawthorne favor inside
speed because the starting gate is less that 70 yards from the
first turn. The turns on the turf course are very sharp and if
a horse doesn't get good position immediately they are in trouble.
Guidry will try to get Nat flying from the gate to hang out the
other speed and get an easy lead for the race. The other speed
is outside of Nat and hopefully will get a rough trip. There
are a couple of solid contenders here to deal with, but if Nat
can skate out to an easy lead, they'll have to catch her down
the stretch.
#1 Recidivist - 4yo has one win in 35 tries. Does have a couple
of thirds on the turf last year at AP vs 3yo. Is rounding into
form for '97 and gets Fires for the ride. Might try to go for
the front, but will likely stalk the pace. Contender for minor
award.
#2 Dance Naturally - Comes back from a short break with two very
sharp works. Other turf try was chasing a fast pace and she tired
while going 3/16ths further. Good speed and post. Jockey will
try to get the lead and hang the other speed out wide on the turn.
If she can slow down the pace, she should be there at the end, if
not.....
#3 Sarah's Approval - Came back from a layoff and got a very
troubled trip. 3yo figures to improve off her last having a
sharp work in between races. Likely to share.
#4 Awesome Windsome - 3yo being run through the meat grinder
with her 4th turf route in 39 days. Drops in from winners,
but I gotta believe this girl needs a break. Meier gets off
the #1 to ride this one. Got a shot, but would be surprised.
#5 Toomuchmoney - 3yo tries the turf for the second time. Was
hung wide in her debut and with Kelly in the irons, I'd look
for a repeat today. Made a nice move and tired despite the
trouble and will likely do so again.
#6 Starry Limits - 3yo broke her maiden impressively versus
state bred claimers. Big speed threat to Dance Naturally,
but with apprentice Ludlow on this one and Guidry on Dance
Naturally, my money is on Guidry to give this boy an education
today. Never been long, so look for this one to tire and
become a traffic problem.
#7 Love a Little - Yet more cheap speed outside of the 2 & 6.
Sorrows will need to dodge Guidry and the apprentice, so I
look for this one to be very wide on the first turn. Hope
she doesn't go over the fence. Fades going long and I have
no clue on the turf ability of its sire. Same results as
Starry Limits.
#8 Brass Song - Got a sharp third in her turf debut. Looks
to get a good trip with the two horses inside of her going
for the lead. Has the ability to last a route which is more
than most of them here have. While Razo hasn't had a great
year on the turf, the race sets up well for him today and
will likely be the favorite.
#9 Toweroffemmefatale - Perhaps the most interesting name in
the race. Connections paid a whopping $2.5K for this girl
who has been on the shelf since April. Won her debut in a
slow time at Sportsmans, but hasn't done anything since. Has
some ability to make up ground, but I don't think she's good
enough to catch the top ones here.
#10 Fast Irish Lass - Good speed and terrible post. Shane
will likely be trying to drop into a stalking position rather
than risk his life trying to maneuver around Ludlow and Sorrows
while Guidry is pushing them out on the turn. Should drop in
for a good trip and will have something left for the end.
I don't know how also elibles work at Hawthorne,
but I believe there must be an early scratch so the others
will have time to get on a van to Hawthorne and receive
their lasix in time. I'm assuming that the 11 & 12 are
out.
I'm expecting Guidry and Nat to come flying out
of the gate and going a touch wide on the first turn so
that the other speed will need to make a hard left to
get onto the backstretch. Nat should coast to the far
turn and the everybody comes running down then stretch.
I'm not ready to predice a Nat victory because
this will be the test to see if everything is back to
the same working order as her maiden win. Most likely
winners are the 8&10, so I'll use Nat in the exotics
with those two.
Cal
> We can't even buy racing forms
> on Monday or Tuesday, so I have no clue what her competition looks like.
> ML is at 20-1, so I'm assuming its not going to be an easy one.
> Joe P
>-- End of excerpt from Pacheco, Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 09:27:09.48
From: IN%"channic@kcco.com" "Tom Channic"
From: channic@kcco.com
Subject: STREAK CONTEST Tote [2911]
---------------------------------------------------
It may be close as to whether VOP or the public gives higher odds to Nat ..
Now Mon. Fri. M/L
Paparouna 5-2 2-1 8-1 7-2
Itbaya 9-2 5-1 7-2 5-1
Lady Lomond 9-2 11-1 8-1 10-1
Kristy L's Halo 6-1 5-1 7-2 6-1
Unsold 6-1 5-1 7-2 7-1
Dance Naturally 13-1 11-1 8-1 4-1
NextHorse(tm) 99-1 99-1 99-1 18-1
Check Streak Over/Under: 11 1/2
Odds that Purse streak is over: 9-2
Good luck to Nat! -- Tom
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 09:12:03.97
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: Chicago Racing [2906] [2909] [2910]
---------------------------------------------------
> However, I think that the IRB and horsemen have done some
>things right for 1998. They've taken the first step of completely
>splitting thoroughbred and harness racing. Since Sportsmans and
>Hawthorne are now TB only, there won't have to split simulcasting
Out of curiosity, where will the harness races happen?
>income with the harness guys. This is giving us a boost form $130K
>to $200K / day in purses. With Arlington gone from the picture,
>we have racing secretaries who card a better selection of races.
>Finally, 1998 is the last year of recapture and that will put
>another $9,000,000 per year ($45K/day) into the purses for 1999.
>With Arlington gone, less money will be put into stakes and more
>into the overnights. I would imagine that the purse increase
>won't be purely linear. The claiming purses will likely have
>a bigger percentage increase than allowance.
Although I've had some of these same thoughts, I'm a
little less than optimistic. I mean, with so much money
at stake, you can bet somebody in the racing or govern-
ment establishments will get their hands on it.
Still, though, it sounds like Chicago Racing is shedding
some inefficiencies, and that's beneficial to everyone.
So does anyone have an opinion as to whether Arlington
is gone for good? This isn't the first time that AP has
threatened to go away, but it's certainly the most con-
vincing bluff we've seen so far. Does anybody think that
Dickie D will reopen the track in two or three years,
saying that things have changed to the point where he
can now operate profitably?
Go Tribe!
-- Drew
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 08:48:40.14
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: Chicago Racing [2906] [2909]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 7, 7:59am, RTBOWMAN wrote:
> Subject: Chicago Racing [2906]
> I don't know how bad Illinois racing will get next year but did you
> hear that the Chicago Racing Report show is being picked up by the
> Comedy Channel?
>
I think the 1997 season definitely fits.
However, I think that the IRB and horsemen have done some
things right for 1998. They've taken the first step of completely
splitting thoroughbred and harness racing. Since Sportsmans and
Hawthorne are now TB only, there won't have to split simulcasting
income with the harness guys. This is giving us a boost form $130K
to $200K / day in purses. With Arlington gone from the picture,
we have racing secretaries who card a better selection of races.
Finally, 1998 is the last year of recapture and that will put
another $9,000,000 per year ($45K/day) into the purses for 1999.
With Arlington gone, less money will be put into stakes and more
into the overnights. I would imagine that the purse increase
won't be purely linear. The claiming purses will likely have
a bigger percentage increase than allowance.
Cal
> A whole new thread for the list. Post your Illinois Racing jokes.
>
> Bob B.
>-- End of excerpt from RTBOWMAN
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 08:04:16.87
From: IN%"RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net"
From: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net
Subject: Chicago Racing [2906]
---------------------------------------------------
I don't know how bad Illinois racing will get next year but did you
hear that the Chicago Racing Report show is being picked up by the
Comedy Channel?
A whole new thread for the list. Post your Illinois Racing jokes.
Bob B.
VOP MAIL PAGE
7-OCT-1997 07:02:14.97
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: RE: Re: Wes [2871] [2887] [2890] [2893] [2905]
---------------------------------------------------
Are any Unsold partners in on CRT's Florida / Sirota horse? How about any
CRT horses that run in NJ or nearby? If so, let's get the specific
licensing issues out and see how insurmountable they are. If not, then what
are the licensing issues?
BTW, the timing and severity of this arthritis issue is becoming an
interesting side story. A couple posts from Lynn (who I think most would
concede is an expert witness on horse health) bear repeating (Lynn, hope
you don't mind):
--- (1 of 2)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 12:04:12 -0400
From: Chris & Lynn Cronin
Subject: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2825]
Terry Bjork wrote:
>
> Didn't our trainer say something to the effect that Wes will have been in
> training for a year by the end of HAW, and will need a rest? When exactly
> is this going to happen in this scenario?
>
> Terry
Perhaps he could get 4-6 weeks or so on the farm before shipping...or he
could be rested on a place in Florida after the trip down--would give
him a chance to acclimate. He isn't hurting, and probably doesn't need
a LONG rest. It's not like he has raced or been worked that often.
JMHO
Lynn
--- (2 of 2)
Return-Path:
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 20:52:10 -0400
From: Chris & Lynn Cronin
Subject: Wes [2838]
Sounds like ol' Wes is developing osselets...arthritis of the ankle
joints. It's a pretty common ailment, and usually fairly manageable,
although they can flare up from time to time. Maybe he needs some warm
temperatures and ultraviolet exposure.... :)
Lynn C.
--- end 2 of 2
If half the Unsold (or any VOP horse for that matter) partners wanted a
vote called to hire a second trainer -- at an alternate, non-competing with
Liane, venue, e.g. Florida or NJ -- would the MP call for such a vote?
-- Chris
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 22:17:32.39
From: IN%"bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET" "B.Brandt"
From: bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET
Subject: Re: Wes [2868] [2896] [2903]
---------------------------------------------------
I left CRT because of the trouble of too many tracks and too many
trainers, I guess this cuts both ways.
BB
mikep@ameritech.net wrote:
> CJ, you wrote:
> >Maybe before deciding what we want to do with Unsold, we should
> address
> >this "hurdle" of VOP ever employing a trainer other than Liane. >
>
> YES! More partners than actually post agree that the
> exclusive(un-written)trainer rule should be repealed.
>
> There are current vop members who are also crt members.....who has 6
> horses
> and 5 different trainers.
>
> Some partners left vop because of the above rule. (unwritten)
> It has to be addressed.
> IMO she is not the only trainer that can train and care for horses
> properly, and frankly ________________.
> (time to take cover)
>
> ap
>
> >his position pretty clear, but IMHO, his posts sound like he has no
> >interest in seeing VOP employ a second trainer. The silence of the MP
> on
> >the second trainer issue has been deafening (except for the last
> Scoop
> >that, if it convinces us to unload Unsold, again sweeps the issue
> under the
> >rug). What is the resistance to a multiple horse partnership
> employing
> >multiple trainers?!
> >
> >A little less than a year ago, Wes had shown absolutely NOTHING. And
> yet
> >some partners didn't seem to have an issue forking over cash call
> after
> >cash call for an "experiment" that in Unsold's case, had less than
> stellar
> >results (note that Liane was still the trainer in last year's
> experiment).
> >Now as a developing 4yo, he's been pretty sound, and produced several
>
> >paychecks.
> >
> >He stinks, has a bad hock, and can't beat another horse (let alone
> get a
> >check) -- let's experiment; he shows signs of life and soundness --
> he's a
> >crappy pud that's going nowhere. ?!?!?! I'd be far more willing to
> put up
> >with cash calls for this winter's proposed experiment than I was with
> last
> >year's. Would anyone who's suggesting sending Unsold to auction
> please tell
> >us what reserve you'd put on him? I.e. if the bidding stalls at $2K,
> would
> >you let him go?
> >
> >I hope it's not blasphemy on this list, but I took a little surfing
> trip to
> >the site of another group interested in bringing more people into
> racing,
> >and trying to stop the decline of thoroughbred racing (there ought to
> be
> >room for plenty of such groups). Here's an interesting blurb from
> their
> >home page:
> >
> >"Our Arizona trainer is Phil Oviedo, our Maryland trainer is Linda
> Albert,
> >our California trainer is Rene Amescua and our New Jersey/Florida
> circuit
> >trainer will be Keith Sirota. All are experienced and dedicated
> trainers
> >who have the welfare of their horses as first priority."
> >
> >Hmm. Multiple trainers. Welfare of horses. Sirota. Are people having
> >heartburn 'cause Sirota trains for CRT? BTW, I also noticed Sirota
> has an
> >email address. I don't have Sirota's stats, or how he does with turf
> >horses, or horses with whatever characteristic of Wes you want to
> analyze.
> >But whatever we ask about Sirota or any other potential trainer,
> shouldn't
> >we ask the same questions about Liane?
> >
> >I apologize if I sound like I'm calling for Liane's head. That's not
> my
> >intent. I'd like to see (a) VOP get flexible enough to use multiple
> >trainers, and (b) see how Unsold does with someone else. Liane and
> >Herschell are good people, but they don't have a monopoly on caring
> about
> >the welfare of horses. Do they have a monopoly on VOP's business?
> >
> >If we're voting on Unsold in the last week of October, I propose we
> vote by
> >the third week of October on whether VOP will employ a second -- not
> >alternate, but expand to more than one -- trainer.
> >
> >-- Chris
> >
> >P.S. Here's another blurb from the CRT site:
> >
> >"There is another internet based racing partnership called Virtual
> Owners
> >Partnership or VOP that races only in Chicago. Check out their
> homepage too."
> >
> >If we want to expand and bring more people into horse racing, let's
> do it.
> >
> >
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 21:26:58.44
From: IN%"Falstafguy@aol.com"
From: Falstafguy@aol.com
Subject: Back Home Again [2901]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPers,
Finally back from a nice 2 week vacation in the Utah/Arizona Canyonlands (
plus a couple of days in Vegas). My thanks to Cal and Joe P. for keeping me
up to date via phone calls while away. Just for the record I had 469 e-mails
on my machine when I came online today with at least 2/3rds of them from you
guys. Took a wee bit of time to catch up. Good Luck to Nat, Itsy and the
Flash this week.
Darrell B
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 21:26:15.84
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Laura pix [2900]
---------------------------------------------------
There are some race pictures now on the Paparouna page.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 21:11:00.40
From: IN%"elvis@mcs.com"
From: elvis@mcs.com
Subject: Re: STREAK CONTEST Tote [2883] [2899]
---------------------------------------------------
> Keep those votes coming! (What say you, Elvis?)
>
I'm going to go with the longshot on LL. I think the odds of her
getting claimed are down, and I think we'll just drop her in class until
she hits.
As for the streak ending, whenever Unproven runs next. It was by
accident that we didn't get a piece of him, and boyoboyoboyoboy are we
glad we missed that one. I think the three we have (LL, KLH, and
Papajoegrezadek) will all win before Unsatisfactory does.
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 19:46:37.63
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: RE: Re: Wes [2871] [2887] [2890] [2893] [2897]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_AioUS/Cv6kIgrnEUttCciQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Cal/All partners,
Sorry to hear about OUR tax problems...I say our because this will
effect each and everyone of us......I want to do everything on the up
and up as I am sure everyone else wants to..so concealing partners is
out....What are our options, Cal with Unsold and every other horse that
we own.....could we sell or lease to CRT
so that way we can absolve you of any tax burdens.......I see leesees
run all of the time in NJ so I know thats possible.......The last thing
in the world I want to do is get you or anyone in trouble with the
IRS...ok ok Maybe Joe Duhon
I am serious.....Cal there is no reason for you ttake any fall....I
rather sell Unsold and any others if that is the ony viable
option.......
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_AioUS/Cv6kIgrnEUttCciQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 23:21:13 +0000 (UT)
From: Cal Jestice
Subject: RE: Re: Wes [2871] [2887] [2890] [2893]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id:
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Y'all,
The issue is the same owner using more than one alias.
In Illinois this is forbidden. When VOP started, my other partner-
ships ended. I could only race under VOP or Circle CD or what-
ever in regards to naming and tax purposes. Earnings for VOP
are recorded under our tax-payer ID. Everything else that I would
do at the track must be credited against my SS#. My understanding
is that this is common in other states. This leaves us in a tax
quandry. Once we start racing in another state where partners
are hiding behind another alias, one of those partnerships will
need to end and the partners must be listed individually. This
causes a problem because both of those partnerships are in
existance and one will need to end and reform in an new entity
which probably means that two returns must be filed with the
IRS for the same horse, even though ownership isn't changing.
Of course, we could skip this and hope we don't get caught.
However the penalty at the race track could be a suspension for
all the owners and since the IRS is already auditing me for every-
thing that's going on with VOP, I really don't want to open another
can of worms. It's an issue that will need to be investigated very
carefully and just having extracted the microscope from an oriface,
I'm not particularly anxious to have another shoved in. Frankly,
if we're racing elsewhere, I don't want my SS# anywhere near
the earnings statement.
Cal
----------
From: Allan Weston
Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 5:37 PM
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: Fwd: Re: Wes [2871] [2887] [2890]
--Boundary_[ID_0XV+iYh/4nWL+a22aI5Fug]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Terry,
Mark beat me to the punch......what are the impications of
running horses that you own part of in two different colors with the
same trainer.....We had a confict at the begging of the year when Cal
had NMy blue dawn entered for the Circle D. and VOP had entered Nat they
were coupled as I remember and that Cal and Liane scratched MyBlue
Dawn......I alsoknow in new YOrk they have the same rule common
ownership coulpled horses....even if they have different
trainers.....which happens occsionally when Paulsen buys part of a horse
for breeding puposes and decides to keep him with the old trainer....and
the trainer enters him and tha MOtt enters the Paulson horse....so it is
allowed in New york and Illinios
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_0XV+iYh/4nWL+a22aI5Fug]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 17:23:38 -0500
From: Mark Alesia
Subject: Re: Wes [2871] [2887]
To: Terry Bjork
Cc: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: malesia@home.com
Message-id: <343964EA.7174498@home.com>
Organization: @Home Network
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-AtHome0400 (Win95; U)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
References: <1.5.4.16.19971006075736.38cf6978@mailhost.ais.net>
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
X-Proc-type: 3 (Normal)
Terry,
What are the licensing issues involved?
-- Mark
Terry Bjork wrote:
> not to mention avoiding the very
> real and thorny licensing issues that would confront both partnerships
>
> and many individual partners if both operations were running in the
> same state.
--Boundary_[ID_0XV+iYh/4nWL+a22aI5Fug]--
--Boundary_[ID_AioUS/Cv6kIgrnEUttCciQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 19:14:06.66
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Wes [2868] [2896]
---------------------------------------------------
CJ, you wrote:
>Maybe before deciding what we want to do with Unsold, we should address
>this "hurdle" of VOP ever employing a trainer other than Liane. >
YES! More partners than actually post agree that the
exclusive(un-written)trainer rule should be repealed.
There are current vop members who are also crt members.....who has 6 horses
and 5 different trainers.
Some partners left vop because of the above rule. (unwritten)
It has to be addressed.
IMO she is not the only trainer that can train and care for horses
properly, and frankly ________________.
(time to take cover)
ap
>his position pretty clear, but IMHO, his posts sound like he has no
>interest in seeing VOP employ a second trainer. The silence of the MP on
>the second trainer issue has been deafening (except for the last Scoop
>that, if it convinces us to unload Unsold, again sweeps the issue under the
>rug). What is the resistance to a multiple horse partnership employing
>multiple trainers?!
>
>A little less than a year ago, Wes had shown absolutely NOTHING. And yet
>some partners didn't seem to have an issue forking over cash call after
>cash call for an "experiment" that in Unsold's case, had less than stellar
>results (note that Liane was still the trainer in last year's experiment).
>Now as a developing 4yo, he's been pretty sound, and produced several
>paychecks.
>
>He stinks, has a bad hock, and can't beat another horse (let alone get a
>check) -- let's experiment; he shows signs of life and soundness -- he's a
>crappy pud that's going nowhere. ?!?!?! I'd be far more willing to put up
>with cash calls for this winter's proposed experiment than I was with last
>year's. Would anyone who's suggesting sending Unsold to auction please tell
>us what reserve you'd put on him? I.e. if the bidding stalls at $2K, would
>you let him go?
>
>I hope it's not blasphemy on this list, but I took a little surfing trip to
>the site of another group interested in bringing more people into racing,
>and trying to stop the decline of thoroughbred racing (there ought to be
>room for plenty of such groups). Here's an interesting blurb from their
>home page:
>
>"Our Arizona trainer is Phil Oviedo, our Maryland trainer is Linda Albert,
>our California trainer is Rene Amescua and our New Jersey/Florida circuit
>trainer will be Keith Sirota. All are experienced and dedicated trainers
>who have the welfare of their horses as first priority."
>
>Hmm. Multiple trainers. Welfare of horses. Sirota. Are people having
>heartburn 'cause Sirota trains for CRT? BTW, I also noticed Sirota has an
>email address. I don't have Sirota's stats, or how he does with turf
>horses, or horses with whatever characteristic of Wes you want to analyze.
>But whatever we ask about Sirota or any other potential trainer, shouldn't
>we ask the same questions about Liane?
>
>I apologize if I sound like I'm calling for Liane's head. That's not my
>intent. I'd like to see (a) VOP get flexible enough to use multiple
>trainers, and (b) see how Unsold does with someone else. Liane and
>Herschell are good people, but they don't have a monopoly on caring about
>the welfare of horses. Do they have a monopoly on VOP's business?
>
>If we're voting on Unsold in the last week of October, I propose we vote by
>the third week of October on whether VOP will employ a second -- not
>alternate, but expand to more than one -- trainer.
>
>-- Chris
>
>P.S. Here's another blurb from the CRT site:
>
>"There is another internet based racing partnership called Virtual Owners
>Partnership or VOP that races only in Chicago. Check out their homepage too."
>
>If we want to expand and bring more people into horse racing, let's do it.
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 18:58:35.75
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wes, majority interested in FL [2878] [2895]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-06 14:13:07 EDT, Joe P. wrote:
<< That puts the
interest level in sending Wes to FL at 51.5%. Below is the breakout:
FOR:
Sean Callahan (4.2%) >>
For the record this means I'm only open to discussion on the issue & have not
made up my "4.2% mind" as of yet.....I'm still partial to FG right now...I
also want to look more into the FG-Lone Star circuit too....
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 18:54:18.85
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Nat's race [2894]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Sometimes even I forget why I own horses with
VOP......Three VOP races in three days.I hope that The flash gets in for
Thursday nd It stays on turf....and all of the races on my favorite
mileau (spelling) grass.....OH yes lots of fun and excitement in the
next three days with that said here are the Weston Kiss of Death picks
for Nats race........
1. Recidivist----Oh for 9 on the turf with a couple of thirds doesdraw
the perferred post for this distance but I'll be tossing
3 . Sarah's Approval--- was a bitfractious at the gate last out was
fanned wide had a slow last quarter and still go third in her first
start in 6 months draws inside
4. awesome windsome---well awesome maybe win some once in a while but
not on turf where this one is oh for 6 with a third Sire has not thrown
a turfer yet.....tossaro
5. Toomuchmoney----Bill gates horse.....Related to Itsy...so this one
could turf....had no shot after being caught wide with
Sampson....sampson up again
6. Starry limits--- has turf written all over his paternal side no
winners on maternal side
mixed signals breedingwise......I'll be tossing
7. Love a little----was smashed for 5knw2l....trainer and owner will try
turf for a change...guess what should have stayed on dirt....toss
8. Brass song---raced against Alesia powell and was not disgraced--was
caught slightly wide and hung
9. tToweroffemmefatale---mouthful to say announcer won't have to mention
this one too many times......tosski
10. Fast Irish lass----ran a real good one last out vs alesia powell for
first turf start...iscaught in outside post
11. Blue bells---Clunked up to a fouth place finish in her turf
debut.....outside post a detrement...toss
12. Anahi-comes out of the same race as the 11...and is even hanicapped
worse by out post....I'll be tossing
2 Dance Naturally--Well I say this for Nat drew real nice for this
race.......comeback works
are a real eyeopener for me......aif she can dupicate her speed on
VOPfest Saturday
and save a little bit for the end we could have BOXCAr payouts
Wow,
Maybe Cal or one of the other Chicago partners could enlighten
us as to why there is an EXTREME inside bias at this distance at
Hawthorne and also a somewhat less speed bias.
These horses are a collective oh for 23 so obvoisly there are no
standouts here
I am going to toss the entire 4 horses who drew outside
posts.......the-9-10-11-12
I will make the probable finish 3-5-2-8 if this race was at AP i would b
e different but its not so I stick to thse choices
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 18:33:16.02
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: Re: Wes [2871] [2887] [2890] [2893]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
The issue is the same owner using more than one alias.
In Illinois this is forbidden. When VOP started, my other partner-
ships ended. I could only race under VOP or Circle CD or what-
ever in regards to naming and tax purposes. Earnings for VOP
are recorded under our tax-payer ID. Everything else that I would
do at the track must be credited against my SS#. My understanding
is that this is common in other states. This leaves us in a tax
quandry. Once we start racing in another state where partners
are hiding behind another alias, one of those partnerships will
need to end and the partners must be listed individually. This
causes a problem because both of those partnerships are in
existance and one will need to end and reform in an new entity
which probably means that two returns must be filed with the
IRS for the same horse, even though ownership isn't changing.
Of course, we could skip this and hope we don't get caught.
However the penalty at the race track could be a suspension for
all the owners and since the IRS is already auditing me for every-
thing that's going on with VOP, I really don't want to open another
can of worms. It's an issue that will need to be investigated very
carefully and just having extracted the microscope from an oriface,
I'm not particularly anxious to have another shoved in. Frankly,
if we're racing elsewhere, I don't want my SS# anywhere near
the earnings statement.
Cal
----------
From: Allan Weston
Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 5:37 PM
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: Fwd: Re: Wes [2871] [2887] [2890]
--Boundary_[ID_0XV+iYh/4nWL+a22aI5Fug]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Terry,
Mark beat me to the punch......what are the impications of
running horses that you own part of in two different colors with the
same trainer.....We had a confict at the begging of the year when Cal
had NMy blue dawn entered for the Circle D. and VOP had entered Nat they
were coupled as I remember and that Cal and Liane scratched MyBlue
Dawn......I alsoknow in new YOrk they have the same rule common
ownership coulpled horses....even if they have different
trainers.....which happens occsionally when Paulsen buys part of a horse
for breeding puposes and decides to keep him with the old trainer....and
the trainer enters him and tha MOtt enters the Paulson horse....so it is
allowed in New york and Illinios
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_0XV+iYh/4nWL+a22aI5Fug]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 17:23:38 -0500
From: Mark Alesia
Subject: Re: Wes [2871] [2887]
To: Terry Bjork
Cc: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: malesia@home.com
Message-id: <343964EA.7174498@home.com>
Organization: @Home Network
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-AtHome0400 (Win95; U)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
References: <1.5.4.16.19971006075736.38cf6978@mailhost.ais.net>
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
X-Proc-type: 3 (Normal)
Terry,
What are the licensing issues involved?
-- Mark
Terry Bjork wrote:
> not to mention avoiding the very
> real and thorny licensing issues that would confront both partnerships
>
> and many individual partners if both operations were running in the
> same state.
--Boundary_[ID_0XV+iYh/4nWL+a22aI5Fug]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 17:40:44.74
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Wes [2871] [2887] [2890]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_0XV+iYh/4nWL+a22aI5Fug]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Terry,
Mark beat me to the punch......what are the impications of
running horses that you own part of in two different colors with the
same trainer.....We had a confict at the begging of the year when Cal
had NMy blue dawn entered for the Circle D. and VOP had entered Nat they
were coupled as I remember and that Cal and Liane scratched MyBlue
Dawn......I alsoknow in new YOrk they have the same rule common
ownership coulpled horses....even if they have different
trainers.....which happens occsionally when Paulsen buys part of a horse
for breeding puposes and decides to keep him with the old trainer....and
the trainer enters him and tha MOtt enters the Paulson horse....so it is
allowed in New york and Illinios
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_0XV+iYh/4nWL+a22aI5Fug]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 17:23:38 -0500
From: Mark Alesia
Subject: Re: Wes [2871] [2887]
To: Terry Bjork
Cc: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: malesia@home.com
Message-id: <343964EA.7174498@home.com>
Organization: @Home Network
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-AtHome0400 (Win95; U)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
References: <1.5.4.16.19971006075736.38cf6978@mailhost.ais.net>
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
X-Proc-type: 3 (Normal)
Terry,
What are the licensing issues involved?
-- Mark
Terry Bjork wrote:
> not to mention avoiding the very
> real and thorny licensing issues that would confront both partnerships
>
> and many individual partners if both operations were running in the
> same state.
--Boundary_[ID_0XV+iYh/4nWL+a22aI5Fug]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 17:31:13.67
From: IN%"malesia@home.com"
From: malesia@home.com
Subject: Flash draw [2889]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal or anyone,
When does Arlington draw for Thursday?
-- Mark
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 16:53:18.05
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Nat's race [2886]
---------------------------------------------------
Anybody have an opinion on Nat's race. We can't even buy racing forms
on Monday or Tuesday, so I have no clue what her competition looks like.
ML is at 20-1, so I'm assuming its not going to be an easy one.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 16:17:48.40
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: Unsold [2852] [2885]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
If Unsold can finish out with two decent efforts,
I believe we can get from $5K to $7K at auction. He
would be tough on a lesser circuit.
Cal
----------
From: MR JOSEPH A CALVO
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 1997 9:59 AM
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: Unsold [2852]
I know there's lot's of discussion about selling Unsold after
Hawthorne. Can we start shedding some light on just what we think
he's worth?
Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 16:16:40.93
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: Wes [2868] [2884]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
In regards to Chris' comments about CRT having two
trainers, it should be noted that they have two permanent racing
circuits, 2,500 miles apart. On each circuit, there is one and only
one trainer.
I personally have no problem giving a VOP horse to another
trainer on a different circuit if we decide there is a business reason
(level of competition or turf racing needed) to have the horse leave
Chicago. However, I do not favor a second trainer on the Chicago
circuit or establishing a second "home circuit" for VOP.
Having two trainers on the same circuit will cause problems
which I believe will seriously harm VOP. Having two trainers will
immediately divide VOP into two camps. It will be extremely hard
to buy new horses because those partners who like trainer A will
not go in if trainer B gets the horse (and vice-versa). Likewise, every-
time a horse puts in a bad performance, we'll be arguing if we should
move the horse between barns. Trainers will not like being pitted
against each other while having the same clients. If start wanting
to move horses back and forth, a trainer won't have time to know
or work with the horse. We've seen how long it has taken horses
like Hooper or Unsold to get rounded into form. If we start giving
up on a horse or trainer after a couple of months, the next trainer
will likely be starting from near ground zero. Also, VOP currently
has a reputation as being a bit of a side show. I've had trainers
admit to my face that, while the think the idea of VOP is great,
they wouldn't take us as clients due to the hassle of so many
owners. If word gets out that we like to spin trainers or move
horses between barns, no trainer will want to take us. To sum up,
I think if we want a new trainer, we should carefully consider the
decision and move _all_ our horses then stay put for a while.
Likewise, I don't see any benefit for starting a second
VOP "home circuit". I think refining what we do over the winter
in LA is a good idea, but I don't think we have a critical mass
of partners to begin a year round home on a second circuit. If
we started a second home track, we'll be splitting the partners
who wanted to race in Chicago and those that didn't. We would
be diluting our resources and that would hurt us.
My opposition to sending Unsold to Florida is not a
question of Liane versus a different trainer. It's a question of
whether I think we'll be financially better off if we can unload
Unsold in the near future versus racing him another year on
the turf. My belief is that VOP should void itself of all turf horses
by the end of the year and concentrate on getting a good dirt
runner at the FG.
Cal
----------
From: Chris Jenner
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 1997 10:59 PM
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: Wes [2868]
Maybe before deciding what we want to do with Unsold, we should address
this "hurdle" of VOP ever employing a trainer other than Liane. Terry made
his position pretty clear, but IMHO, his posts sound like he has no
interest in seeing VOP employ a second trainer. The silence of the MP on
the second trainer issue has been deafening (except for the last Scoop
that, if it convinces us to unload Unsold, again sweeps the issue under the
rug). What is the resistance to a multiple horse partnership employing
multiple trainers?!
A little less than a year ago, Wes had shown absolutely NOTHING. And yet
some partners didn't seem to have an issue forking over cash call after
cash call for an "experiment" that in Unsold's case, had less than stellar
results (note that Liane was still the trainer in last year's experiment).
Now as a developing 4yo, he's been pretty sound, and produced several
paychecks.
He stinks, has a bad hock, and can't beat another horse (let alone get a
check) -- let's experiment; he shows signs of life and soundness -- he's a
crappy pud that's going nowhere. ?!?!?! I'd be far more willing to put up
with cash calls for this winter's proposed experiment than I was with last
year's. Would anyone who's suggesting sending Unsold to auction please tell
us what reserve you'd put on him? I.e. if the bidding stalls at $2K, would
you let him go?
I hope it's not blasphemy on this list, but I took a little surfing trip to
the site of another group interested in bringing more people into racing,
and trying to stop the decline of thoroughbred racing (there ought to be
room for plenty of such groups). Here's an interesting blurb from their
home page:
"Our Arizona trainer is Phil Oviedo, our Maryland trainer is Linda Albert,
our California trainer is Rene Amescua and our New Jersey/Florida circuit
trainer will be Keith Sirota. All are experienced and dedicated trainers
who have the welfare of their horses as first priority."
Hmm. Multiple trainers. Welfare of horses. Sirota. Are people having
heartburn 'cause Sirota trains for CRT? BTW, I also noticed Sirota has an
email address. I don't have Sirota's stats, or how he does with turf
horses, or horses with whatever characteristic of Wes you want to analyze.
But whatever we ask about Sirota or any other potential trainer, shouldn't
we ask the same questions about Liane?
I apologize if I sound like I'm calling for Liane's head. That's not my
intent. I'd like to see (a) VOP get flexible enough to use multiple
trainers, and (b) see how Unsold does with someone else. Liane and
Herschell are good people, but they don't have a monopoly on caring about
the welfare of horses. Do they have a monopoly on VOP's business?
If we're voting on Unsold in the last week of October, I propose we vote by
the third week of October on whether VOP will employ a second -- not
alternate, but expand to more than one -- trainer.
-- Chris
P.S. Here's another blurb from the CRT site:
"There is another internet based racing partnership called Virtual Owners
Partnership or VOP that races only in Chicago. Check out their homepage too."
If we want to expand and bring more people into horse racing, let's do it.
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 15:30:29.94
From: IN%"channic@kcco.com" "Tom Channic"
From: channic@kcco.com
Subject: STREAK CONTEST Tote [2883]
---------------------------------------------------
Weekend wagers favored youth it seems. Still plenty of time to vote
for a) the next Vop horse to win a race, and
b) the final number for the current VOP purse-winning streak (now 9).
Winner gets:
1) Valuable on-line text charts for all of Arlington's
"Give me slots or give me death" season.
2) Whiskey sour mix (while supplies last)
DA ODDS
Now Fri. M/L
Paparouna 2-1 8-1 7-2
Itbaya 5-1 7-2 5-1
Kristy L's Halo 5-1 7-2 6-1
Unsold 5-1 7-2 7-1
Dance Naturally 11-1 8-1 4-1
Lady Lomond 11-1 8-1 10-1
NextHorse(tm) 99-1 99-1 18-1
Check Streak Over/Under: 13 1/2 and steady
Keep those votes coming! (What say you, Elvis?)
Tom C.
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 14:43:39.85
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: Hialeah Trainer List [2882]
---------------------------------------------------
Below are the trainer's who had stalls at Hialeah in 1997. This list was
last revised 3/1/97.
Joe Abbey James McMullen
Ronald D. Allen Mertins Seigfried
Carmine Andrietta Herbert Miller
George Arnold II Valerie Miller
Jacob Ashor Thaddeus Mock
Eduardo Azpurua Edward Mondol
Pedro Barroso Scott Murphy
Heidi Betrock Kris Nemann
Paschal Bignault Leo O'brien
Michelle Bonte Luis Otero
Thomas Bowden Carlos Paez
Gregory Bowman Norberto Palavecino
Edwin Broome Mark Passley
Pat Burns Anthony Pecoraro
LLoyd Caballero Argelio Pena
Paul Cadarean Williams Perry
Thomas Cairns Joseph Pierce
Dale Capuano Hubert Pilcher
Charles Cary Dominic Polsinelli
Manual Carrasco Luke Poulous
Luis Casado John Pregman
Kevin Cels Tom Proctor
Bill Cesare Dewight Puckett
Victor Collazo Marcos Rangel
Steve Cooper Catherine Rera
Ricardo Crosbie Greg Richardson
Sanya Davis Steven Rieser
George Decamillus Charles Robins
Oscar Delgado Elliston Rolle
E. Desouza Walter RosaCanessas
Martin Digrius Joseph Rutigliano
Alice Dodson Anthony Ryan
Roberto Donato Derek Ryan
John Duchnowski James Rieser
Louis Douzan Greg Sacco
Mary Eppler Ernestor Sarmiento
Fisher John Scanlan
Edward Freeman Flint Schuloffer
Christian Gangemi Harold Schultz
Placido Garsa Leon Sears
George Gianos Keith Sirota (K 26-30)
Allan Goldberg Guillaume Soyer
Leola Gott John Steward
Joseph Grande Jason Stodghill
Rickey Harris Clevland Suckie
Alex Hassinger Kimberly Swentowski
Humberto Herrera Daniel Switzer
Bernard Hughes Anthony Taylor
Michelle Hummert John Terranova
Alan Hunter Doris Thews
Carlos Jimenez Mike Trivigno
Leroy Jolley Timothy Tullock
Andretta Kanen Hector Viera
Patrick Kelly Richard Violette
Larry Kelly Peter Walder
Alice Knowles John Ward
Paul Kopaj Donald White
Harry Laflamme Larry William
Ray Lawrence Errol Wilson
Roberto Lineres Noel Wilson
Braulio Lopez Sheldon Wolfe
Wayne Lukas Steven Woodford
Gabriel Mas William Wright
Phil Marino Zeis
Martin Marrero Joseph Zoppi
Mario Martinez
Joseph Mazza
Thomas McCooey
Jim McKenzie
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 14:15:46.40
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: this weeks racing [2850] [2881]
---------------------------------------------------
From http://www.luc.edu/orgs/phoenix/weather.html
Mon 86 - 62 Sunny
Tue 84 - 63 Sunny
Wed 75 - 58 Pt Cldy
Thu 72 - 55 Rain ugh.
At 10:54 AM 10/5/97 -0400, Allan Weston wrote:
>Chicago partners,
> Since we are running three horses on the turf
>this week on consecutive
>days....tues....Nat.......wed.......Itbaya........thurs......the
>flash......what does the long range forsecast say for this week for
>Chicagoland environs.
> Allan
>
>ps---of course I have dreams of closing down AP with three VOP
>wins...anybody else share my dreams.
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 13:53:49.31
From: IN%"RBDN74A@prodigy.com"
From: RBDN74A@prodigy.com
Subject: Internet Message [2880]
---------------------------------------------------
Chris wrote:
>2. If yes, hire Sirota, give it a shot. If there are licensing
and/or
>ethical issues, let's get specific and discuss them. If there's an
issue
>about "competing" (??) with CRT and their turf vs. ours (??), let's
discuss
>that too. Are there reasons two internet-based partnerships can't
run at
>the same venue?
FYI. Keith trains 1 CRT horse, Village Fair. That particular
partnership is structured differently than the other CRT horses (and
VOP horses for that matter). I don't see this as a conflict with CRT
although Cal and Toni may feel otherwise. I also think if we limit
ourselves to the Midwest given the current state of affairs, the
future for VOP will not look bright. It's clear that right now racing
in Illinois is a mess and until that clears up, we need to be a bit
more open minded.
Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 13:30:02.35
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: Wes, majority interested in FL [2878] [2879]
---------------------------------------------------
1. Determine whether Sirota would take Wes on if we wanted to hire him.
Does he need to see the horse in the flesh, or would PPs, along with
partner input (maybe videotape) suffice?
2. If yes, hire Sirota, give it a shot. If there are licensing and/or
ethical issues, let's get specific and discuss them. If there's an issue
about "competing" (??) with CRT and their turf vs. ours (??), let's discuss
that too. Are there reasons two internet-based partnerships can't run at
the same venue?
3. If no, perhaps someone can suggest alternate trainers who don't have any
customers that might "conflict" with us.
At 01:11 PM 10/6/97 -0500, Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>Y'all,
>I was just informed by Mike Sasso that he has proxy for Barbara Kalbfell
>and Steve Ohsmans shares (1.40% and 1.40% respectively). That puts the
>interest level in sending Wes to FL at 51.5%. Below is the breakout:
>
>FOR:
>Mark Alesia (1.4%)
>Bob Bowman (13.9%)
>Sean Callahan (4.2%)
>Joe Calvo (12.5%)
>Tom Channic (1.4%)
>Lynn Cronin (2.1%)
>Chris Jenner (1.4%)
>Barbara Kalbfell (1.4%)
>Steve Lewis (3.45%)
>Steve Moses (1.4%)
>Steve Ostman (1.4%)
>Joe Pacheco (4.15%)
>Mike Sasso (1.4%)
>Allan Wesson (1.4%)
>
>AGAINST:
>
>Terry Bjork (6.46%)
>Jeff Yelke (3.45%)
>
>Since a majority of the partnership is interested in the possibility of
>sending Wes down south, we need to determine our available opinions.
>Let the ideas fly!.
>
>Joe P
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 13:15:25.46
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Wes, majority interested in FL [2878]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I was just informed by Mike Sasso that he has proxy for Barbara Kalbfell
and Steve Ohsmans shares (1.40% and 1.40% respectively). That puts the
interest level in sending Wes to FL at 51.5%. Below is the breakout:
FOR:
Mark Alesia (1.4%)
Bob Bowman (13.9%)
Sean Callahan (4.2%)
Joe Calvo (12.5%)
Tom Channic (1.4%)
Lynn Cronin (2.1%)
Chris Jenner (1.4%)
Barbara Kalbfell (1.4%)
Steve Lewis (3.45%)
Steve Moses (1.4%)
Steve Ostman (1.4%)
Joe Pacheco (4.15%)
Mike Sasso (1.4%)
Allan Wesson (1.4%)
AGAINST:
Terry Bjork (6.46%)
Jeff Yelke (3.45%)
Since a majority of the partnership is interested in the possibility of
sending Wes down south, we need to determine our available opinions.
Let the ideas fly!.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 13:06:12.09
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Mike White [2877]
---------------------------------------------------
Mike......please contact me via e-mail when u have a chance....thanks
Sean Callahan
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 09:22:50.97
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wes carrying 125 million pounds of partnership baggage in nextrace..... [2 [2876]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-05 23:55:44 EDT, you write:
<< Bowed tendons. >>
didn't Capt. Bodgit have a bowed tendon??
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 09:18:43.68
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: tell ya what ... [2875]
---------------------------------------------------
My shares in Unsold will be for sale after the HAW meet, one way or the
other. If someone or ones who still believe in Wes would like to reach
an agreement in principle with me ahead of that time to purchase them
at a fair price, then I'll quit campaigning for him to be sold because
it won't matter to me anymore. I'll be out from under him either way.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 08:49:50.83
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: geez I apologize [2863] [2874]
---------------------------------------------------
>I'm going back to posting absolutely nothing.
>
>Terry
I think thats a little drastic TB. What derby post are you talking about?
What does the tm mean after next horse(tm)? I see it constantly.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 08:25:14.70
From: IN%"RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net"
From: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net
Subject: Error (Unsold) [2872]
---------------------------------------------------
I posted that Unsold finished 2nd in a 25K sometime yesterday. He
actually finished 2nd in the 18K. The 25K is the race Sampson took him
up the rail, got boxed. pulled him back to last and made a run outside
finishing 5 1/2 lengths back of the leader. Still not a bad run.
Bob B.
VOP MAIL PAGE
6-OCT-1997 08:05:24.75
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: re: Wes [2871]
---------------------------------------------------
Chris Jenner wrote:
>A little less than a year ago, Wes had shown absolutely NOTHING. And yet
>some partners didn't seem to have an issue forking over cash call after
>cash call for an "experiment" that in Unsold's case, had less than stellar
>results
A year ago, Wes had run exactly one race for us and was a total unknown
whose recent efforts under his previous trainer showed a lot of promise
for him to be an allowance horse if he could come back from his surgery.
This year he is not an unknown, and his recent efforts, while not awful,
clearly show him not to be an allowance horse. The earning potential of
allowance horses and claiming horses is much different, and the potential
rewards of experimenting with Wes last year were much different.
Hopefully we all learned something from last year.
>year's. Would anyone who's suggesting sending Unsold to auction please tell
>us what reserve you'd put on him? I.e. if the bidding stalls at $2K, would
>you let him go?
$2k would not be acceptable. I don't know what reserve I'd set. I'd like
to get some professional outside opinion on this.
>"Our Arizona trainer is Phil Oviedo, our Maryland trainer is Linda Albert,
>our California trainer is Rene Amescua and our New Jersey/Florida circuit
>trainer will be Keith Sirota. All are experienced and dedicated trainers
>who have the welfare of their horses as first priority."
>
>Hmm. Multiple trainers. Welfare of horses. Sirota. Are people having
>heartburn 'cause Sirota trains for CRT?
CRT has multiple trainers because they have chosen to structure their
partnership as a series of one or two horse operations in several
different states. If all the horses were still in Arizona, they would
have but one trainer.
The issue of Keith Sirota is a difficult one. Without anyone but me
and a couple of others here knowing the particulars, it is impossible
to convey how much effort has been put into keeping CRT out of VOP's
"territory" and from competing with us, not to mention avoiding the very
real and thorny licensing issues that would confront both partnerships
and many individual partners if both operations were running in the
same state. For us to not only "invade" their territory but also use
their trainer would be very uncomfortable, at least for me, and most
likely for several cross-partners and both partnerships as far as
licensing goes. It has potential to cause a great deal of difficulty
for several individual partners and both managing partners as the laws
in every state are different and some not nearly so understanding as
Illinois has been. Not saying it couldn't be overcome, but it might
require some partners to remove themselves from the ranks of one
partnership or the other or prevent them from buying into future horses
in one partnership or the other. I know this probably doesn't make a
bit of difference to most in this partnership who only own a piece of
one or two horses and who don't have to jump through all the paperwork
hoops, but could cause a lot of problems for people like Joe Calvo and
me, not to mention Cal and Toni.
>
>"There is another internet based racing partnership called Virtual Owners
>Partnership or VOP that races only in Chicago. Check out their homepage too."
>
>If we want to expand and bring more people into horse racing, let's do it.
Then the issue is not simply multiple trainers, but do we want to string
out our operation all over the country like CRT, correct? If we're going
to do that then I have no problem with multiple trainers because obviously
it would be impossible to do with only one.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 23:08:38.84
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: re: Wes in FL [2870]
---------------------------------------------------
Allan asked:
> You have more experince than I (and most of the Unsold
>partnership) at owning horses so I ask a question of you. What is the
>worst case scenerio if we send Unsold to Florida? (I mean of course
>barring some catashphic breakdown) and now if you please give us the
>best case scenerio.
Realistically speaking:
The worst case is that things turn out like they did for both Unsold
and Itbaya last winter. A layoff followed by an expensive re-training
period with no races and then a series of disappointing races because
his arthritis is getting worse, and this ends up being a very expensive
experiment.
Best case, maybe he gets a win if everything goes his way and the pace
sets up perfectly, and then he can never clear the n3l barrier and
we revert to the series of disappointing races scenario because Hialeah
doesn't run turf races low enough for him to be competitive just like
AP and FG. And we don't lose quite so much money, but we still lose.
All IMHO, speaking as one who has watched this pud run, in person,
time and time again, and can see the difference between him and several
other "horses with heart I have known". My personal opinion of his
"heart" is low. He may luck into a N1X at sometime in his career. He is
unlikely to ever clear N2X, once again IMHO.
Best case in my personal book is that someone would claim him. ;-)
Note this is all my own opinion, and not necessarily what Liane thinks.
At this point, I have no idea what she thinks about this horse.
Terry
P.S. I hope to God I am wrong and he KICKS ASS this week! And it might
work ... last time we were talking about dumping Itsy, she shaped right up.
P.P.S. Bob S. - I'm also in favor of also finding Itsy a new job after
this season, as Cal has mentioned. I love her and seeing her race, but
it is just time from a purely business standpoint.
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 22:49:28.59
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Wes [2868]
---------------------------------------------------
Maybe before deciding what we want to do with Unsold, we should address
this "hurdle" of VOP ever employing a trainer other than Liane. Terry made
his position pretty clear, but IMHO, his posts sound like he has no
interest in seeing VOP employ a second trainer. The silence of the MP on
the second trainer issue has been deafening (except for the last Scoop
that, if it convinces us to unload Unsold, again sweeps the issue under the
rug). What is the resistance to a multiple horse partnership employing
multiple trainers?!
A little less than a year ago, Wes had shown absolutely NOTHING. And yet
some partners didn't seem to have an issue forking over cash call after
cash call for an "experiment" that in Unsold's case, had less than stellar
results (note that Liane was still the trainer in last year's experiment).
Now as a developing 4yo, he's been pretty sound, and produced several
paychecks.
He stinks, has a bad hock, and can't beat another horse (let alone get a
check) -- let's experiment; he shows signs of life and soundness -- he's a
crappy pud that's going nowhere. ?!?!?! I'd be far more willing to put up
with cash calls for this winter's proposed experiment than I was with last
year's. Would anyone who's suggesting sending Unsold to auction please tell
us what reserve you'd put on him? I.e. if the bidding stalls at $2K, would
you let him go?
I hope it's not blasphemy on this list, but I took a little surfing trip to
the site of another group interested in bringing more people into racing,
and trying to stop the decline of thoroughbred racing (there ought to be
room for plenty of such groups). Here's an interesting blurb from their
home page:
"Our Arizona trainer is Phil Oviedo, our Maryland trainer is Linda Albert,
our California trainer is Rene Amescua and our New Jersey/Florida circuit
trainer will be Keith Sirota. All are experienced and dedicated trainers
who have the welfare of their horses as first priority."
Hmm. Multiple trainers. Welfare of horses. Sirota. Are people having
heartburn 'cause Sirota trains for CRT? BTW, I also noticed Sirota has an
email address. I don't have Sirota's stats, or how he does with turf
horses, or horses with whatever characteristic of Wes you want to analyze.
But whatever we ask about Sirota or any other potential trainer, shouldn't
we ask the same questions about Liane?
I apologize if I sound like I'm calling for Liane's head. That's not my
intent. I'd like to see (a) VOP get flexible enough to use multiple
trainers, and (b) see how Unsold does with someone else. Liane and
Herschell are good people, but they don't have a monopoly on caring about
the welfare of horses. Do they have a monopoly on VOP's business?
If we're voting on Unsold in the last week of October, I propose we vote by
the third week of October on whether VOP will employ a second -- not
alternate, but expand to more than one -- trainer.
-- Chris
P.S. Here's another blurb from the CRT site:
"There is another internet based racing partnership called Virtual Owners
Partnership or VOP that races only in Chicago. Check out their homepage too."
If we want to expand and bring more people into horse racing, let's do it.
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 22:02:27.45
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Wes carrying 125 million pounds of partnership baggage in next race..... [2864] [2867]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_yi4w4N+ia3H401KmlzUlgA]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Lynn,
regarding the bowed tendon question
yes I'd like to hear about as long as If its not a VOP horse that has
it;-)
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_yi4w4N+ia3H401KmlzUlgA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 21:45:47 -0400
From: Chris & Lynn Cronin
Subject: Wes carrying 125 million pounds of partnership baggage in next
race..... [2864]
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Message-id: <343842CB.2D7F@voyager.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Partners
Can we all agree to *disagree* on what "THE" best strategy is for
Unsold? Clearly, not all of us have the same agenda nor do we all have
IDENTICAL goals for this horse/this partnership/racehorse ownership. Of
course, we *all* want to see our horses win, but most of us realize that
wins are elusive and not the sole purpose of being an owner.
We each need to be very clear in our own minds, as well as when we
post/vote/express our opinions, what it is we *want* from this horse,
besides the obvious: winning. Is just having the horse running for us
the most important thing? Having him earn his oats? Making a profit?
Seeing him in a new setting and learning from that? Trying out a new
angle to the partnership? Broadening our horizons beyond Chicagoland?
Sniffing out new venues for VOP now that Arlington is bust? Cash him in
and get on with NextHorse(tm)? The poor horse can't run with TOO many
burdens to carry....:)
I'm sure some of us identify with at least some of those "goals"...we
have to respect each other's goals for this horse (and all our horses)
and STILL come up with a consensus. Tough work, no doubt, but I'm sure
it can be done. PLEASE let's not take it personally if someone doesn't
have the same goals as ourselves. You could poll each VOP'ster and come
up with probably 50 different reasons as to why we joined...THEREIN is
the source of the lively debate and learning that goes on between us;
let's not make it a source of animosity. We all have something to
contribute.
Now I'll go back to lurking until the next anatomico-physiological
question comes along....anyone wanna hear about bowed tendons? :)
Lynn C
--Boundary_[ID_yi4w4N+ia3H401KmlzUlgA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 21:35:41.86
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832] [2856] [2861] [2865]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_YisE2LbmcgXGIITU8xvqJw]
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Terry,
You have more experince than I (and most of the Unsold
partnership) at owning horses so I ask a question of you. What is the
worst case scenerio if we send Unsold to Florida? (I mean of course
barring some catashphic breakdown) and now if you please give us the
best case scenerio. (I don't mean he becomes a graded stakes winner...we
all know he ain't that good) Just the best thing that we as a
partnership could expect if everything falls our way.
Thanks in advance,
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_YisE2LbmcgXGIITU8xvqJw]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 19:49:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: Terry Bjork
Subject: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832] [2856] [2861]
X-Sender: tlbjork@mailhost.ais.net
To: VIRTUAL-OWNERS@vop.org
Message-id: <1.5.4.16.19971005194506.3c170c2a@mailhost.ais.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
At 07:16 PM 10/5/97 -0500, RTBOWMAN wrote:
>Obviously we haven't covered the feasibilty of the move yet but equally
>obvious is that there is a lot of interest in examining the possibility.
>
If we're going to continue with this horse, let's consider something
realistic, like Sam Houston. Cheap purses, but maybe he could get some
wins, and we have some partners in Texas and close in Louisiana. We
would still lose money, but maybe get some winners, which I think
are going to be few and far between in Florida.
>What is the level of interest in dumping Unsold or continuing with
>Liane at FG & Hawthorne? I've seen you and Cal. Whoever else shares
>this opinion please speak up.
I didn't know there was any question about not continuing with Unsold
at HAW through the end of that meet except what you have brought up.
I haven't seen anyone else mention it. As far as I could tell, we were
discussing what to do with the horse over the winter. Turf racing will
end at HAW in about the middle of November. There's been no discussion
of a turf circuit running between now and then that will offer easier
racing than HAW.
I favor finishing the season with him here and selling him. Period. I have
no interest in sending him to FG this year or keeping him with Liane for
next year. I have no interest in sending him to another circuit that is
just as tough if not more than this one. If people wanted to send him
to an easy circuit like Sam Houston at least I'd feel like we weren't
totally wasting our time. Money maybe.
>
>But personally I don't think I'm going to throw my hands up and say
>let's look at an exit strategy just because a minority of people are
>voicing strong opinions against it.
And personally, I'm not going to be paying nearly the cash calls to
continue with this horse as you, Joe C., and Mark DeVine. All I'm
saying is that, based on my experience with (to date) 15 racehorses
I've owned, this has all the earmarks of a losing situation. If people
want to learn that lesson for themselves then there's nothing I can do.
>By the way, What were we paying Liane to train Unsold at FG last season?
>How does it compare with your $65 a day figure?
Liane was about $15/day cheaper.
Terry
--Boundary_[ID_YisE2LbmcgXGIITU8xvqJw]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 20:50:02.25
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: Wes carrying 125 million pounds of partnership baggage in next race..... [2864]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners
Can we all agree to *disagree* on what "THE" best strategy is for
Unsold? Clearly, not all of us have the same agenda nor do we all have
IDENTICAL goals for this horse/this partnership/racehorse ownership. Of
course, we *all* want to see our horses win, but most of us realize that
wins are elusive and not the sole purpose of being an owner.
We each need to be very clear in our own minds, as well as when we
post/vote/express our opinions, what it is we *want* from this horse,
besides the obvious: winning. Is just having the horse running for us
the most important thing? Having him earn his oats? Making a profit?
Seeing him in a new setting and learning from that? Trying out a new
angle to the partnership? Broadening our horizons beyond Chicagoland?
Sniffing out new venues for VOP now that Arlington is bust? Cash him in
and get on with NextHorse(tm)? The poor horse can't run with TOO many
burdens to carry....:)
I'm sure some of us identify with at least some of those "goals"...we
have to respect each other's goals for this horse (and all our horses)
and STILL come up with a consensus. Tough work, no doubt, but I'm sure
it can be done. PLEASE let's not take it personally if someone doesn't
have the same goals as ourselves. You could poll each VOP'ster and come
up with probably 50 different reasons as to why we joined...THEREIN is
the source of the lively debate and learning that goes on between us;
let's not make it a source of animosity. We all have something to
contribute.
Now I'll go back to lurking until the next anatomico-physiological
question comes along....anyone wanna hear about bowed tendons? :)
Lynn C
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 20:24:36.00
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: geez I apologize [2863]
---------------------------------------------------
That was so stupid, and I truly truly apologize.
I'm going back to posting absolutely nothing.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 20:21:32.90
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: OOOOOOOPS! [2862]
---------------------------------------------------
Sorry everyone. I accidentally sent VOP mail to Derby.
I am sooooooooo embarrassed!
Kindly ignore .....
Geez. What a nitwit.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 19:52:50.01
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832] [2856] [2861]
---------------------------------------------------
At 07:16 PM 10/5/97 -0500, RTBOWMAN wrote:
>Obviously we haven't covered the feasibilty of the move yet but equally
>obvious is that there is a lot of interest in examining the possibility.
>
If we're going to continue with this horse, let's consider something
realistic, like Sam Houston. Cheap purses, but maybe he could get some
wins, and we have some partners in Texas and close in Louisiana. We
would still lose money, but maybe get some winners, which I think
are going to be few and far between in Florida.
>What is the level of interest in dumping Unsold or continuing with
>Liane at FG & Hawthorne? I've seen you and Cal. Whoever else shares
>this opinion please speak up.
I didn't know there was any question about not continuing with Unsold
at HAW through the end of that meet except what you have brought up.
I haven't seen anyone else mention it. As far as I could tell, we were
discussing what to do with the horse over the winter. Turf racing will
end at HAW in about the middle of November. There's been no discussion
of a turf circuit running between now and then that will offer easier
racing than HAW.
I favor finishing the season with him here and selling him. Period. I have
no interest in sending him to FG this year or keeping him with Liane for
next year. I have no interest in sending him to another circuit that is
just as tough if not more than this one. If people wanted to send him
to an easy circuit like Sam Houston at least I'd feel like we weren't
totally wasting our time. Money maybe.
>
>But personally I don't think I'm going to throw my hands up and say
>let's look at an exit strategy just because a minority of people are
>voicing strong opinions against it.
And personally, I'm not going to be paying nearly the cash calls to
continue with this horse as you, Joe C., and Mark DeVine. All I'm
saying is that, based on my experience with (to date) 15 racehorses
I've owned, this has all the earmarks of a losing situation. If people
want to learn that lesson for themselves then there's nothing I can do.
>By the way, What were we paying Liane to train Unsold at FG last season?
>How does it compare with your $65 a day figure?
Liane was about $15/day cheaper.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 19:33:35.13
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Wes to FL/For and Agin [2860]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
It was suggested that I list the partners that have expressed an opinion
regarding the possibility of sending Wes to FL. Here are those that
have expressed an interest in pursuing the idea:
Mark Alesia (1.4%)
Bob Bowman (13.9%)
Sean Callahan (4.2%)
Joe Calvo (12.5%)
Tom Channic (1.4%)
Lynn Cronin (2.1%)
Chris Jenner (1.4%)
Steve Lewis (3.45%)
Steve Moses (1.4%)
Joe Pacheco (4.15%)
Mike Sasso (1.4%)
Allan Wesson (1.4%)
Here are the partners, I believe, have expressed a opinion against such
an idea:
Terry Bjork (6.46%)
Jeff Yelke (3.45%)
The interest level for FL currently stands at 48.7%. The interest level
against stands at 9.91%. I may not have captured some of the against
partners that have expressed a negative opinion prior to my analysis.
Please send me a post and I'll make the appropriate adjustments. Cal, I
wasn't sure where you are positioned, so please let me know. Partners
that have not yet posted their opinions are encouraged to do so. Thanks
and let's keep this discussion on a civil level. We all have our own
opinion, but we need to discuss all positions and look at all opinions
prior to calling a vote.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 19:21:49.96
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Itsy is in [2858]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Itsy got the 5 hole in her swan song at AP...Guidry
up.....oh yes.........now if it just stays on the turf........Who Itsy
gotta beat well there are two major threats.....Rita ruker and of course
the move with Silva......try to wire us this time Mr silva and you'll
die at the end......ditto rita.....let them kill themselves out and Itsy
will pick up the pieces with Guidry.....and a winners circle picture for
the Itbaya partnership and VOP.....
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 19:03:18.22
From: IN%"RBDN74A@prodigy.com"
From: RBDN74A@prodigy.com
Subject: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832] [2856] [2857]
---------------------------------------------------
>Is that what is being proposed now? Is Keith Sirota one of the
great
>proven turf trainers on the East Coast? If we're going to do this,
then
>let's do what people have been talking about all along and get a
"turf
>trainer".
Nobody said Keith Sirota is one of the great anythings. Last I
checked we were all gathering info to make an informed decision on
"our" horse and what to do next. Terry, last year I voted against
Florida because I really felt I didn't have enough information to do
so. Since then I have tried to learn what I could so I wouldn't be in
the same boat again. We seem to be getting "personal" with this Liane
vs. Others argument again. No need to. I for one like Liane and know
she always has our best interests at heart. That shouldn't limit our
alternatives........
Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 18:30:57.84
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832] [2856]
---------------------------------------------------
At 07:53 AM 10/5/97 -0500, RTBOWMAN wrote:
>When we first had this horse Bob Moon wanted to move his 13.9% to a
>proven turf trainer in a turf venue.
Is that what is being proposed now? Is Keith Sirota one of the great
proven turf trainers on the East Coast? If we're going to do this, then
let's do what people have been talking about all along and get a "turf
trainer".
Who are the turf trainers?
>If a majority percentage feel Unsold hasn't been proven a bad horse and
>wish to try Florida then I guess the other owners will have to go along
>just as 13 of us did after FG.
Well that's correct.
>Unsold has been earning checks, I'd rather give him a chance.
>
To do what? If this horse was as talented as people seem to think he is,
then someone would have taken him off us at $18k and improved him into the
stakes horse he was meant to be. They didn't. If the backside in general
felt they could improve horses off Liane - the healthy ones - they would
have taken Itbaya and Unsold. They didn't.
>I feel it's the perfect time to begin to establish alternatives for VOP
>horses.
Using Unsold to prove this point will be a waste of everyone's money.
He is moderately talented as a mid-level conditioned claimer, but has no
real will to win. He quits. If he was any good, he could beat Sarner
and Bantan. He can't. What's being proposed is a very expensive
continuation of support for Unsold to pick up maybe one win picture
if we are extremely lucky.
If the idea is to place Unsold with a proven turf trainer, then let's
identify the proven turf trainers who run at Hialeah, and find out how
much this is going to cost us (are we willing to live with $65 a day for
this horse?), and also find out if any one of them really want this
particular horse. There's no guarantee that anyone wants to pick up
this particular "project".
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 16:25:14.41
From: IN%"milesm@slewpy.drf.com"
From: milesm@slewpy.drf.com
Subject: StableMail -- Itbaya [2855]
---------------------------------------------------
This is a notice from the Daily Racing Form's online StableMail which
informs you when certain horses will be running in the near future. You
are receiving this message because Itbaya is entered to run
in the 9th race at Arlington Park on October 8, 1997. For more information
about the race, be sure to check out Daily Racing Form's web site
at http://www.drf.com/ or view the entries for this race at
http://www.drf.com/entries/08/APX.html.
You also wrote the following notes about this horse:
Other Information About this Race
---------------------------------
Race Type:
Purse: $13,500
Claiming Price for Itbaya (if applicable): 16,000
Surface: About Turf
Distance: 1 Mile
Jockey: Guidry M
Post Position: 5
# of horses in race: 11
--------------------------------
If you'd like to remove Itbaya from your list of horses to watch,
go to the StableMail removal form at http://www.drf.com/stablemail/remove.html.
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 10:47:41.46
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wes FL Percentage List [2849] [2853] [2854]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners:
While I have said that I am interested in the possibility of sending
Unsold to Florida. I am still hoping that someone can shed some
light on the following.
1. What turf races are generally carded that Unsold would be
competitive in?
2. What condition has the turf course at Hialeah been in the past
couple of years? (Yes I know Unsold broke his maiden their)
3. What are the purses compared to other alternatives?
4. What percentage of Ken Soroitas horses are turf horses and
while a 20% win percentage is great, I would be interested to
know how many horses he is currently training and what level
he seems strongest at!
5. Also a hard number as to the shipping cost of Unsold by himself
to Florida. Would it be cheaper if we sent Ken two horses at the
same time?
I feel that the above information if obtainable would shed some much
needed light. Let me close by saying I do think Liane has VOP's best
interests at heart and that is why sending Unsold or any other horse
to another trainer poses a huge hurdle for VOP.
Steve Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 10:01:50.75
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: Wes FL Percentage List [2849] [2853]
---------------------------------------------------
So what are we waiting for? What's the next step? Joe, if you have the
data, you might add two categories to the percentage count: (b) against
sending Wes to FL, (c) undeclared.
At 09:45 AM 10/5/97 -0500, Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>Y'all,
>The following is the updated list of partners interested in pursuing the
>possibility of Wes to FL:
>
>Mark Alesia (1.4%)
>Bob Bowman (13.9%)
>Sean Callahan (4.2%)
>Joe Calvo (12.5%)
>Tom Channic (1.4%)
>Lynn Cronin (2.1%)
>Chris Jenner (1.4%)
>Steve Lewis (3.45%)
>Steve Moses (1.4%)
>Joe Pacheco (4.15%)
>Mike Sasso (1.4%)
>Allan Wesson (1.4%)
>
>The interest level currently stands at 48.7%, plus a mystery partner.
>Joe P
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 10:01:21.72
From: IN%"RBDN74A@prodigy.com"
From: RBDN74A@prodigy.com
Subject: Unsold [2852]
---------------------------------------------------
I know there's lot's of discussion about selling Unsold after
Hawthorne. Can we start shedding some light on just what we think
he's worth?
Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 09:59:23.01
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: ooops [2851]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
I forgot that Nat is racing at HAW
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 09:57:22.93
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: this weeks racing [2850]
---------------------------------------------------
Chicago partners,
Since we are running three horses on the turf
this week on consecutive
days....tues....Nat.......wed.......Itbaya........thurs......the
flash......what does the long range forsecast say for this week for
Chicagoland environs.
Allan
ps---of course I have dreams of closing down AP with three VOP
wins...anybody else share my dreams.
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 09:49:12.85
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Wes FL Percentage List [2849]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
The following is the updated list of partners interested in pursuing the
possibility of Wes to FL:
Mark Alesia (1.4%)
Bob Bowman (13.9%)
Sean Callahan (4.2%)
Joe Calvo (12.5%)
Tom Channic (1.4%)
Lynn Cronin (2.1%)
Chris Jenner (1.4%)
Steve Lewis (3.45%)
Steve Moses (1.4%)
Joe Pacheco (4.15%)
Mike Sasso (1.4%)
Allan Wesson (1.4%)
The interest level currently stands at 48.7%, plus a mystery partner.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 09:45:20.81
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Wes to FL [2848]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I've heard from three additional partners that wouls like to consider
Wes going to FL. They are Mark Alesia (1.4%), Steve Moses (1.4%) and a
mystery partner (I couldn't tell by their email address). That makes
the current percentage of partnership ownership considering FL at 48.7%.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 09:41:40.53
From: IN%"RBDN74A@prodigy.com"
From: RBDN74A@prodigy.com
Subject: Fwd: re: Wes in FL [2824] [2834] [2847]
---------------------------------------------------
I think the trainers can always decide what rest he needs. I spoke to
Keith on Friday and he was pretty understanding about our situation.
I told him a little about Unsold. If anyone has a copy of his latest
Form or maybe even a Ragozin sheet that you could e-mail me, I'd like
to show it to Keith to see what he thinks about Unsold's ability for
Florida. I'm confident he could give an honest opinion to us to help
aid in our discussions and decisions. As you can see from his record,
Keith pretty much puts his horses in races where he think's they have
the best chance to win. I don't think he'd want to take on the Pud if
he didn't think he could win.
Joe
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 08:51:57.68
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832] [2844] [2846]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_9swGy60HdjaxKAtkwYMFrQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Bob/all,
There is one other option available and that is to sell to an
existing partner......It was done when the Unsold FL vote didn't go the
way some of the existing partners wanted to......and I was also done
when the KLH partnership voted for surgery for him and some of the
existing partners balked at that Idea...so there is some precdent for
it......I am sure that both Jeff and Terry (and anyother partner) can
get out of the Unsold partnership by selling to existing partners (if
the vote doesn't go the way they like)....
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_9swGy60HdjaxKAtkwYMFrQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 07:53:23 -0500
From: RTBOWMAN
Subject: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832] [2844]
To: Terry Bjork
Cc: Virtual Owners Partnership
Reply-to: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net
Message-id: <34378DC3.3E20@prodigy.net>
Organization: Prodigy Internet
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <1.5.4.16.19971004235039.35dfa34a@mailhost.ais.net>
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Terry Bjork wrote:
>
> At 08:03 PM 10/4/97 -0500, RTBOWMAN wrote:
>
> >I've owned large percentages of Hoops & Unsold and feel it's time to try
> >an alternative. At some point it's time to quit crediting bad luck
> >
>
> My position has nothing to do with anything except Unsold is a bad horse
> unless we can find somewhere that cards very cheap turf races, and even
> then I'm not sure.
>
> IMHO it's a waste of money to continue with him, in Florida or anywhere.
> He should be dumped when the Hawthorne season is over. If he can't win
> there, he surely will be a waste of time and money on a tougher circuit,
> and Hialeah is certainly tougher than HAW.
>
> Terry
That's a valid position. However there are owners such as I who don't
agree that we've proven Unsold to be a bad horse only that we've made
bad decisions and limited any chance of success.
When we first had this horse Bob Moon wanted to move his 13.9% to a
proven turf trainer in a turf venue. My 13.9% was right with him but it
wasn't to be. After FG the popular vote was 13-11-1 for going to Florida
but we returned to Sportsman. The rest of us went along with what the
majority percentage wished.
If a majority percentage feel Unsold hasn't been proven a bad horse and
wish to try Florida then I guess the other owners will have to go along
just as 13 of us did after FG. I felt returning Unsold to Sportsman was
a waste of money also and it was.
What if we sell Unsold and recover a fraction of our investment. If he
is as bad as you say then we surely won't get much for him. Then we do
what? Buy Liane another cheap horse with breathing problems, bad legs, a
broken foot that gets misdiagnosed ?
Unsold has been earning checks, I'd rather give him a chance.
I feel it's the perfect time to begin to establish alternatives for VOP
horses.
Bob B.
--Boundary_[ID_9swGy60HdjaxKAtkwYMFrQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
5-OCT-1997 08:32:44.61
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Keith Sirota stats [2845]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
I will try to get some good stats though Brisnet....but
here is my first tidbit....11 winners from 54 starts.......a little over
20 percent in 1997.
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 22:52:11.82
From: IN%"robws@ix.netcom.com" "Bob Schaefer"
From: robws@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/4/97 [2836] [2842]
---------------------------------------------------
How about a vote for what we want to do with Itbaya over the winter?
----------
> From: Cal Jestice
> To: virtual-owners@vop.org
> Subject: The Scoop: 10/4/97 [2836]
> Date: Sunday, October 05, 1997 12:08 AM
>
> Y'all,
>
> Please remember to get your checks to me by the 12th.
>
> Lady Lomond is a touch sore in her ankle since the race.
> The xrays show she has a floating chip. It won't bother her unless
> it moves between the ankle bones. Liane doesn't know if Lady will
> be ready for the next N2L at Hawthorne, but she'll keep working on
> the ankle and try for it.
>
> Paparouna's leg was still a little sore, so Liane had some
> xrays taken. There's no injury, but Paparouna is going through a
> little growing spurt and the bone is reshaping itself. The vet said
> to go a little easier on Paparouna for the next week or so until the
> leg calms down, but there's no need to take her out of training.
> Paparouna looked great this morning and her attitude was good.
> Liane is not predicting a race date yet, but Paparouna continues
> training.
>
> KLH is looking very good now that he's been back at the
> track for 45 days. He's put back all the weight he's lost while he
> was at the farm. His attitude is wonderful. He's not as personable
> as Major Storm was, but he's coming close. KLH's knees are
> doing well and he must feel a lot better now. He should be ready
> for his first breeze soon. As soon as I know anything, I'll pass
> it along.
>
> Nat is in for Tuesday at Hawthorne. It's a field of 10 and
> she has the 2 post. We've got Guidry for the ride. I didn't recognize
> many of the names from the entries and I can't recall any records of
> the ones I did know. Feeling as good as she does and with her latest
> work, there's a good chance Nat will jump to the lead and be tough
> to catch considering the placement of the gate at 7.5f. Nat was
> in her typical fiesty mood at the barn tonight, so I didn't get close
> enough to socialize.
>
> Itbaya was excused from today's race to enter for Wednesday.
> The stewards put up quite a fuss about our wanting to get out, but they
> finally relented. We enter tomorrow for Wednesday and the choice of
> rider for that race is still up in the air. We're trying for Sibille and
> Silva,
> but neither agent would commit just yet. The #11 horse scratched out
> of today's 6th race also and I expect her to be going for Wednesday
> also. Itbaya is feeling great and should do well against the easier
> competition if we can get in on Wednesday.
>
> Unsold had some inflamation and filling in his ankles this week
> so Liane had them xrayed. There's some calcification of the joint which
> in layman's terms is arthritis (Lynn C and Larry M please feel free to
> expound in gory technical detail). This is like the problem Major Storm
> had while we owned him. His genetic disposition and the miles are
> catching up with him, so he probably will require extra maintenance
> for as long as we have him and might need more frequent breaks. He
> had his ankles tapped this morning and I watched while Dr. Nina did
> the procedure. The first thing to be done was tranquilizing Unsold which
> did wonders for his puddishness. When he was sufficiently mellow, his
> ankles were scrubbed and the vet inserted a needle into the joing which
> allowed the excess fluid to drain. It was fairly clear which is a good
sign.
> Discoloration means an infection or bleeding inside the joint capsule.
> After the joint drained, an anti-inflamitory solution was injected into
the
> joint and his ankles were dressed. Providing there's no complications
> from the procedure, Unsold should be ready to go on Thursday.
>
> Let's plan on a vote around the last week of October for what we
> want to do with Unsold over the winter. That should give everyone enough
> time to put forth some options and consider them.
>
> Cal
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 22:42:33.21
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: Let's go 3 for 3 [2841]
---------------------------------------------------
Ok, people, I'm asking for your good luck vibes/wishes once more...they
seem to have done really well for us the last 2 weeks, with blues on
both occasions. This time, my goals are a little less lofty: I want to
get around cross country and for me and the mare to finish connected to
one another! Yikes, jump number 15 is damn scary looking! Keep those
fingers crossed for us, and thanks in advance.
Lynn
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 20:40:40.91
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832] [2839] [2840]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_Sz0qiQNaG3xR4Chc7/fM4Q]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Terry/Bob/all,
Not to bash Terry's but I have to rebut......Am I
the only one to notice this but next to Unsold name for Septembers cash
calls was a big fat zero he made 2400 in September..more than any other
VOP horse.....he was a cash call turkey at the begging of his VOP
carrer.......july 96-june 19,1997 no money made June 20 thru today
6350 in cold hard American currency....again more than any other VOP
horse in that time period WITHOUT WINNING....has cashed checks in 5 of
his 6 AP turf starts...better than any other VOP horse and now you want
to sell him because you are afraid of his cash calls as long as we keep
him on the turf......we ain't gonna lose much money with him....he has
been very constinant and sound until now and osslets...sounds to me that
this is more like a nagging condition than a career threatenerIf he
comes in the moneyon Thursday (a likely event)
he will add more cash to the coffers....he does need a break and that
will have to be adressed he hasn't made any money for us...he came
within half a length of winning his last time out in this class so I
expect a decent run from him (osslets and all)...All horses get some
wear and tear injuries.......It is part of being a racehorse
Just ask lady and her breathing and Nat and her splints or FOREGO and
his ankles yes even the champions have something wrong with them...or
touch Gold and his hoofs well you catch my drift...again I have posted
too long
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_Sz0qiQNaG3xR4Chc7/fM4Q]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 20:03:15 -0500
From: RTBOWMAN
Subject: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832] [2839]
To: Terry Bjork
Cc: Virtual Owners Partnership
Reply-to: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net
Message-id: <3436E753.17A8@prodigy.net>
Organization: Prodigy Internet
MIME-version: 1.0
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Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
References: <1.5.4.16.19971004145813.348f7298@mailhost.ais.net>
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Terry Bjork wrote:
>
> At 11:34 AM 10/4/97 -0500, RTBOWMAN wrote:
>
> >Unsold was off for a quite a while before coming back into training. He
> >wasn't heavily raced especially with the Sportsman interval and no
> >effort races at FG.
> >
> >How long of a layoff are you looking for?
>
> I don't know. I'm not a trainer, and can't pretend to answer that.
>
> Just keep in mind that one is going to be necessary, which means we'll
> have that plus the 6 or 8 or 10 weeks of re-conditioning before he races
> again, which is all cash call and no possibility of income.
>
> I much prefer sending this pud through the sales ring in Feb. or
> whenever. Even if we got a win picture in Florida, we'd be still
> throwing good money after bad to a) lay him up, b) ship him, c) get
> him back into condition, d) keep him in training until he does decide
> to get that elusive win.
>
> Basically what's being proposed is another Itbaya situation. Maybe a
> win, a lot of non-winning races, and a continual outflow of cash.
>
> I'd prefer to sell out than put up with more of that, either as a
> partnership, or at least my shares in Wes.
>
> Terry
I'll be honest with you, at this point I could be told that Unsold needs
contact lenses because he can't see, a hearing aid because he can't hear
and a set of crutches because he can't walk and I'll still vote my share
for Florida/NJ.
VOP has repeatedly sidestepped any effort at moving a horse to another
trainer with timely manuevers. I want to remain part of VOP but will
only remain at a $400 minimum as long as we insist on limiting our
horses.
Once a horse is moved others may want to follow a similar path. Stay
with what is successful. If unsuccessful try an alternative.
I've owned large percentages of Hoops & Unsold and feel it's time to try
an alternative. At some point it's time to quit crediting bad luck
Bob B.
--Boundary_[ID_Sz0qiQNaG3xR4Chc7/fM4Q]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 19:57:10.29
From: IN%"cnlcronin@voyager.net"
From: cnlcronin@voyager.net
Subject: Wes [2838]
---------------------------------------------------
Sounds like ol' Wes is developing osselets...arthritis of the ankle
joints. It's a pretty common ailment, and usually fairly manageable,
although they can flare up from time to time. Maybe he needs some warm
temperatures and ultraviolet exposure.... :)
Lynn C.
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 19:36:46.99
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Mortal lock and Nat's racing [2837]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
soory I hit the send button...that should give us a couple
of races to see if he can win one (I hope)....good to here about his non
infection..
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 19:18:24.70
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: The Scoop: 10/4/97 [2836]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Please remember to get your checks to me by the 12th.
Lady Lomond is a touch sore in her ankle since the race.
The xrays show she has a floating chip. It won't bother her unless
it moves between the ankle bones. Liane doesn't know if Lady will
be ready for the next N2L at Hawthorne, but she'll keep working on
the ankle and try for it.
Paparouna's leg was still a little sore, so Liane had some
xrays taken. There's no injury, but Paparouna is going through a
little growing spurt and the bone is reshaping itself. The vet said
to go a little easier on Paparouna for the next week or so until the
leg calms down, but there's no need to take her out of training.
Paparouna looked great this morning and her attitude was good.
Liane is not predicting a race date yet, but Paparouna continues
training.
KLH is looking very good now that he's been back at the
track for 45 days. He's put back all the weight he's lost while he
was at the farm. His attitude is wonderful. He's not as personable
as Major Storm was, but he's coming close. KLH's knees are
doing well and he must feel a lot better now. He should be ready
for his first breeze soon. As soon as I know anything, I'll pass
it along.
Nat is in for Tuesday at Hawthorne. It's a field of 10 and
she has the 2 post. We've got Guidry for the ride. I didn't recognize
many of the names from the entries and I can't recall any records of
the ones I did know. Feeling as good as she does and with her latest
work, there's a good chance Nat will jump to the lead and be tough
to catch considering the placement of the gate at 7.5f. Nat was
in her typical fiesty mood at the barn tonight, so I didn't get close
enough to socialize.
Itbaya was excused from today's race to enter for Wednesday.
The stewards put up quite a fuss about our wanting to get out, but they
finally relented. We enter tomorrow for Wednesday and the choice of
rider for that race is still up in the air. We're trying for Sibille and
Silva,
but neither agent would commit just yet. The #11 horse scratched out
of today's 6th race also and I expect her to be going for Wednesday
also. Itbaya is feeling great and should do well against the easier
competition if we can get in on Wednesday.
Unsold had some inflamation and filling in his ankles this week
so Liane had them xrayed. There's some calcification of the joint which
in layman's terms is arthritis (Lynn C and Larry M please feel free to
expound in gory technical detail). This is like the problem Major Storm
had while we owned him. His genetic disposition and the miles are
catching up with him, so he probably will require extra maintenance
for as long as we have him and might need more frequent breaks. He
had his ankles tapped this morning and I watched while Dr. Nina did
the procedure. The first thing to be done was tranquilizing Unsold which
did wonders for his puddishness. When he was sufficiently mellow, his
ankles were scrubbed and the vet inserted a needle into the joing which
allowed the excess fluid to drain. It was fairly clear which is a good sign.
Discoloration means an infection or bleeding inside the joint capsule.
After the joint drained, an anti-inflamitory solution was injected into the
joint and his ankles were dressed. Providing there's no complications
from the procedure, Unsold should be ready to go on Thursday.
Let's plan on a vote around the last week of October for what we
want to do with Unsold over the winter. That should give everyone enough
time to put forth some options and consider them.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 18:34:42.95
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: re: Wes in FL [2824] [2834]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_cX5Ls6J6WsNO2bFSm5VOXw]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Terry/all,
My thooughts exactly HE does need rest...so give him two
months off after his last turf race at Hawthorne (sometime in November)
ship him to Hialeah in January two months to get ready to
race......Hialeah opens when GP closes in March so he'll be ready to
race when Hialeah opens total cost to the Unsold partnership Appox 6k
from the time we put him on the farm til the time he is ready to race in
March.
Allan
ps--this is the question all the partners must ask them selves is it
worth 6k to race him on the the Fla/NJ circuit
--Boundary_[ID_cX5Ls6J6WsNO2bFSm5VOXw]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 10:51:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Terry Bjork
Subject: re: Wes in FL [2824]
X-Sender: tlbjork@mailhost.ais.net
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <1.5.4.16.19971004104649.348f9abc@mailhost.ais.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Joe Pacheco wrote:
>I've received posts from several partners regarding the possibility of
>sending Wes to FL (or some other venue).
Didn't our trainer say something to the effect that Wes will have been in
training for a year by the end of HAW, and will need a rest? When exactly
is this going to happen in this scenario?
Terry
--Boundary_[ID_cX5Ls6J6WsNO2bFSm5VOXw]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 17:31:04.83
From: IN%"jeffy@megsinet.net" "Jeff Yelke"
From: jeffy@megsinet.net
Subject: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832] [2833]
---------------------------------------------------
All,
I must say I am leaning so far with Terry. I'd be more inclinded to cut
my loss now.
I'm not sure how things will work out on the FLA-NJ circuit.
I realize a turf horse in Chicago is now out of the question,
at least for the next year.
I personally would rather see horses I own a part of race here in
Chicago, ( excluding the winter in LA ). I'm not much of a fan
of watching horses on TV in a simulcast. I realize the
out of town people do this all the time, but thats just my thought.
So thats my opinion. If the move happens, it happens. I
realize something has to happen with all the turf horses here.
I would rather either sell the horse or sell my shares to
someone who really wants them.
My 2 cents..
Jeff
> From: Terry Bjork
> To: VIRTUAL-OWNERS@vop.org
> Subject: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832]
> Date: Saturday, October 04, 1997 3:02 PM
>
> At 11:34 AM 10/4/97 -0500, RTBOWMAN wrote:
>
> >Unsold was off for a quite a while before coming back into training. He
> >wasn't heavily raced especially with the Sportsman interval and no
> >effort races at FG.
> >
> >How long of a layoff are you looking for?
>
> I don't know. I'm not a trainer, and can't pretend to answer that.
>
> Just keep in mind that one is going to be necessary, which means we'll
> have that plus the 6 or 8 or 10 weeks of re-conditioning before he races
> again, which is all cash call and no possibility of income.
>
> I much prefer sending this pud through the sales ring in Feb. or
> whenever. Even if we got a win picture in Florida, we'd be still
> throwing good money after bad to a) lay him up, b) ship him, c) get
> him back into condition, d) keep him in training until he does decide
> to get that elusive win.
>
> Basically what's being proposed is another Itbaya situation. Maybe a
> win, a lot of non-winning races, and a continual outflow of cash.
>
> I'd prefer to sell out than put up with more of that, either as a
> partnership, or at least my shares in Wes.
>
> Terry
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 15:05:28.58
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: Re: Wes in FL [2824] [2832]
---------------------------------------------------
At 11:34 AM 10/4/97 -0500, RTBOWMAN wrote:
>Unsold was off for a quite a while before coming back into training. He
>wasn't heavily raced especially with the Sportsman interval and no
>effort races at FG.
>
>How long of a layoff are you looking for?
I don't know. I'm not a trainer, and can't pretend to answer that.
Just keep in mind that one is going to be necessary, which means we'll
have that plus the 6 or 8 or 10 weeks of re-conditioning before he races
again, which is all cash call and no possibility of income.
I much prefer sending this pud through the sales ring in Feb. or
whenever. Even if we got a win picture in Florida, we'd be still
throwing good money after bad to a) lay him up, b) ship him, c) get
him back into condition, d) keep him in training until he does decide
to get that elusive win.
Basically what's being proposed is another Itbaya situation. Maybe a
win, a lot of non-winning races, and a continual outflow of cash.
I'd prefer to sell out than put up with more of that, either as a
partnership, or at least my shares in Wes.
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 13:59:46.35
From: IN%"milesm@slewpy.drf.com"
From: milesm@slewpy.drf.com
Subject: StableMail -- Dance Naturally [2831]
---------------------------------------------------
This is a notice from the Daily Racing Form's online StableMail which
informs you when certain horses will be running in the near future. You
are receiving this message because Dance Naturally is entered to run
in the 9th race at Hawthorne Park on October 7, 1997. For more information
about the race, be sure to check out Daily Racing Form's web site
at http://www.drf.com/ or view the entries for this race at
http://www.drf.com/entries/07/HAW.html.
You also wrote the following notes about this horse:
Other Information About this Race
---------------------------------
Race Type:
Purse: $12,000
Claiming Price for Dance Naturally (if applicable): 17,500
Surface: About Turf
Distance: 7 1/2 Furlongs
Jockey: Guidry M
Post Position: 2
# of horses in race: 12
--------------------------------
If you'd like to remove Dance Naturally from your list of horses to watch,
go to the StableMail removal form at http://www.drf.com/stablemail/remove.html.
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 11:56:25.72
From: IN%"RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net"
From: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net
Subject: Unsold needs a rest [2828]
---------------------------------------------------
Personally, when Unsold needs a rest I'd rather have him in Florida
where there will be races whenever the trainer thinks he's ready then
have him sitting on a farm in Illinois waiting for Hawthorne to schedule
a turf race for him.
I'd rather we fit the environment to the horse then pursue our past
tactics of trying to shoehorn the horse into the evironment.
Bob B.
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 11:23:19.48
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Instant Messenger [2826]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Is this something we should try? See below.
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***************************************************************************
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VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 10:54:02.98
From: IN%"tlbjork@ais.net" "Terry Bjork"
From: tlbjork@ais.net
Subject: re: Wes in FL [2824]
---------------------------------------------------
Joe Pacheco wrote:
>I've received posts from several partners regarding the possibility of
>sending Wes to FL (or some other venue).
Didn't our trainer say something to the effect that Wes will have been in
training for a year by the end of HAW, and will need a rest? When exactly
is this going to happen in this scenario?
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 10:48:34.81
From: IN%"StLMo@aol.com"
From: StLMo@aol.com
Subject: Wes in FL [2823]
---------------------------------------------------
VOPsters,
I am in agreement to send Wes to Florida. However, if that is decided on, I
would still like to see him start on the turf at Hawthorne before the season
is over. They card those 7 1/2 furlong turf sprints and of course the mile
races. It seems like many of the winners come from far back and I think Wes
has a good shot since they do card some turf races where he will be
effective. At this point I feel he is one of the best horses VOP has (on the
Turf) and I'd hate to give up on him. I can't see sending him to the
Fairgrounds where he disliked the Turf and where they probably won't be
carding Turf races at his level anyway. Calder and Hialeah is where he
belongs. Gulfstream may be too difficult also unless they card mid level
claimers on the Turf. We can see how he does down there and make plans
accordingly. He's my first VOP horse and my favorite and I'd like to give
him a chance to show us what he really can do. None of his Turf starts at
Arlington have been bad.
While I'm on a roll: Let's drop Lady Lomond into the cheapest Illinois bred
races at Hawthorne and keep her there even if she gets us a win or two.
She's very limited. If she can get us a little bankroll before Hawthorne
closes we can then freshen her up for Sportmans. We know she likes the track
there.
Dance Naturally is basically the same. Let's run her where she can show us
something. I think she can handle the grass but a 17,500N2L is just a notch
or two below an ALW N1X. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think she'll be
competitive. So if we try it and she can't compete on the grass at that
level let's drop her also to near bottom and keep her there to try to get a
bankroll. Then, again, Sportmans would be an option.
KLH has a huge heart. Let's see what he can do upon his return here at
Hawthorne. If all goes well, run him til the end of the season here and then
wait for Sportmans.
NONE of these horse are of Fairgrounds potential. That track has become very
competitive the last few years. Better and better horses have been shipping
there. I'd say the competition is almost as difficult as at Gulfstream
during the winter. KLH may be able to compete at the cheapest level there
(depending of course) where here he could probably compete in the 7500c to
10000c range.
Well, that's my opinion.
Steve Moses
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 09:44:23.38
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: Unsold fans [2812] [2822]
---------------------------------------------------
I'm very interested in the Allan/Sirota/Florida/NJ option.
-- Chris 1.4% J
At 04:47 PM 10/3/97 -0500, Pacheco, Joe wrote:
>Several people in "The Pud" partnership have stated that they would
>consider sending Unsold to FL. These are Bob Bowman (13.90%), Joe
>Calvo (12.50%), Myself (4.15%), Mike Sasso (1.40%) and Allan Weston
>(1.4%). This acounts for 33.3% of the Unsold partnership. I believe
>this would be classified as "interest" in the Florida option. Any other
>partners that might consider sending the "Pud to Paradise", please send
>a message stating so to the post. This "is not" a vote to send him to
>FL, it is a compilation of interest in the idea and is not in anyway
>binding.
>Joe (no legal mind) Pacheco
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 09:25:25.47
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Wes in FL [2821]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I've received posts from several partners regarding the possibility of
sending Wes to FL (or some other venue). The following is a list of
partners interested in pursuing the possibility:
Bob Bowman (13.9%)
Sean Callahan (4.2%)
Joe Calvo (12.5%)
Tom Channic (1.4%)
Lynn Cronin (2.1%)
Chris Jenner (1.4%)
Steve Lewis (3.45%)
Joe Pacheco (4.15%)
Mike Sasso (1.4%)
Allan Wesson (1.4%)
My "New Math" calculation makes the interest level currently at 45.9%
(53.43% if you want an "outcome based" calculation). Let's here some
feedback from some of the other partners, especially Mark Devine. Mark,
you have almost a 20% interest in Wes (19.45%). I think it is important
for us to hear your comments since any decision on Wes will impact you
the most.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 08:58:21.36
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Running total [2820]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal,
Are there any possible entries of pappy or nat before wednesday?
I'll be in Ca. til tues evening. I am bringing a laptop to keep up on any
developments. It's the 1st time so I'm hoping it works.
Is there any chance we can have a running total posted on each horse, that
lists actual net earnings and total accrued expenses. Not a breakdown, just
2 numbers one showing accrued earnings, the other accrued expenses.
Possibly from the 1st of Jan. and monthly thereafter? It might help by
providing the financials to base a discussion on.
ap
At 01:27 PM 10/4/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Y'all,
>
> I got ahold of Liane late last night and she's
>going to scratch Itbaya and try to get into the 16K
>claimer on Wednesday. If the stewards don't let us
>out, we'll vet scratch and go for the 16K claimer at
>Hawthorne next week.
>
>Cal
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 08:38:21.68
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: Itbaya Scratched [2819]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I got ahold of Liane late last night and she's
going to scratch Itbaya and try to get into the 16K
claimer on Wednesday. If the stewards don't let us
out, we'll vet scratch and go for the 16K claimer at
Hawthorne next week.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
4-OCT-1997 07:34:31.15
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Itsy running? [2818]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal,
Are we going to run Itsy today or are we going to come down with
a severe case of
Norunheritis. I would like to know because I am planning on attending
the Big M races tonite but I will be leaving earlier if she does run. I
am going to NYC today and will NOT have access to my E-Mail or internet
after 11:00 am (10am central time) So if you could post weather she is
running I sure would appreciate it....
Thanks in advance,
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 18:38:26.61
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Itsy race [2817]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Ive made my case for Not scratching Itsy..so here are my
Weston kiss of death selections......
1. Kardashina---bled severely in her last back on Vitimin L her comeback
works don't exactly thrill me she might need a couple before Lasix works
its Magic....toss
2. Ells Chana Donna--what can you say about this one..108.3 for 6f I
don't care if if it was hard thats MOVING of course paid the price and
proceeded to croak...newly claimed horse freshened a bit by
Bindner....NO wins off claims for him and only one in the
money......I'll be tossing
3. Secret Tomysuccess----spped to burn all wins have come on front
end......needs everything to be perfect tommorw ain't gonna happen so
I'l be tossing this one
5. Sugar coated----another horse with early spped......this is geeting
monontenous...we will be tossing
6. Runaway Emily A---This horse was just another horse her connections
put her on turf and Voila 3 in a row......gauranteed to be running pass
horses late
7. Pyrite Poster-Another horse with early spped won last with wire job
by Silva...chances of wire job by Silva tommorow in this race on the
turf........answer....the big fat BAGEL....toss
8. Chappy Slew---tried rating against Romy...no previous race was
attempted wire job against Mi Louisa and the shoes...ehh
ehh.....stradegy for this horse is to pull her back and hope
9. Great Happiness--hickey layoff horse Was smashed by the #10 in her
only turf start....toss
10. Frankie Carl--Has turned into a hanger at this level but a god bet
for a check
11. Sunny Sryrianna--lets see was smashed by the 4 horse the last time
they meet and gots an outside post to boot....not with Joe Duhon's
money...weston kod auto toss
4. ITBAYA--non winner in two years takes the jump in class if given the
proper ride by Valovich should be albe to collect a check
Pace makes the race if entered ina match race against these horses she
beats the11 and maybe one other horse with the pace as hot as I think
will be she has an excellent chance to ake home sme $$$$$...I however
will be rating the 6 as a emtpy the piggy bank MORTAL LOCK ....lock up
the 6 as the winner pobable rest of finish 8-10-4
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 18:07:54.16
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: Re: Unsold fans [2812] [2815]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners:
Depending on the costs I would certainly consider it!
Steve Lewis (3.45%)
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 17:58:17.40
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Itsy scratched [2814]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Who knows how many races Itsy got left..the descion is
probably alrady made...but here are some reasons for NOT scratching her
1. Who knows if that race on the 14th will stay on the turf
2. This is a nice purse,Itsy's in decent shape and there is 5 tons of
speed in the race so that Itsy can clunk up for third or fourth and get
some part of this nice purse when some of the spped horses spit the
bit.........1500 for 4th
3000 or so for third
3. Last chance for Itsy at AP forever....Let her go out in Style
4. and most selfish reason I want to win the great prizes Tom is
offering for his contest
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 17:39:48.96
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: RE: Fwd: RE: Unsold [2752] [2770] [2772] [2779] [2788] [2813]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_I2jKFbnyWjabcl4QTjoBvA]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Mike/all,
There does seem to be some intrest in the Hialeah option
for Unsold....I am willing to take the ball and run with it. Is the
option is NOT chosen and Unsold is sold instead...I will harbor no
ill-feeling toward anybody who votes
the opposite direction as I. They have their reasons for their votes as
I have mine...I am also not interested in running Unsold in colors other
than the VOP purple.......I that case I will vote my pct for selling
Unsold outright....As I have stated before I am a VOP'ster for life as
long as VOP's got horses I am in.....if Unsold and Itbaya are
sold......I WILL be in on the next horse (tm) ....I think owning horses
though VOP is a great concept.......and i'll put money up every time to
foster that belief...we need more owners and interest in horses and
horseracing not less...every time people as me at the track and even if
they don't (ken Grace will vouch for that) I tell the I own Unsold or
Itbaya the look on their faces is worth everything....well I think I
posted enough for one post
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_I2jKFbnyWjabcl4QTjoBvA]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 9:39:01 -0500
From: Mike Sasso-CMS040
Subject: RE: Fwd: RE: Unsold [2752] [2770] [2772] [2779] [2788]
To: biggestal2@webtv.net (Receipt Notification Requested),
virtual-owners@vop.org (Receipt Notification Requested)
Message-id: <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS>
X-Mailer: Worldtalk (4.1.1-p1)/STREAM
Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com,
sender Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com )
>> Here are some more positives for Florida-New jersey circuit......besides
his famiilarity with the grass course at
hialeah...<<
Allan/all:
Twice I've campaigned to get Unsold to Florida to race at Hialeah. Twice
I've lost. I'm not going to campaign a third time. Not because I don't want
to see him down there, but because it's frustrating to spend so much time
and energy and not get results. In addition, the second campaign resulted in
Pat O'neill selling his shares and leaving the partnership because of
frustration. Pat is a good friend. I'd hate to see that happen to anyone
else. Things get pretty heated up when we start lobbying to have one of our
horses under another trainer.
Anyhow, because of my numerous calls to Hialeah, I'm on the mailing list for
the track. I get the condition books and have received a list of trainers
who train at Hialeah. If that list would be of any use to anyone, let me
know and I'll find a way make it available to the partners.
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
From: biggestal2@webtv.net@INTERNET on Thu, Oct 2, 1997 5:28 PM
Subject: Fwd: RE: Unsold [2752] [2770] [2772] [2779] [2788]
Enclosure: enclosure number 1
Mike,all Unsold partners,
Granted his last was disappionting he ran an 80 or a
near 80 in 3 of his 7 grass races....he last I caculated as a 71 not
very good.....Here is a question for Unsold's owners to ponder how much
money is Unsold worth today if we the partner sold him right this
second.......could the next partner who sees Liane ask her opionion.
please it would go long way in helping the partnership to deal with
him.
Here are some more positives for Florida-New jersey
circuit......besides his famiilarity with the grass course at
hialeah...when Soirota brings him to New Jersry next spring for the
monmouth meeting......Mike /all , they run tons of 16k to 20k claimers
about the same par as AP (only bigger purses)...besides that we can
choose from 4 count,em 4 if we don't like or the pud don't like teomp at
monmouth within 4 hour van ride with turf courses....we won't be a slave
to one condition book as we are right now.
Allan
------------------------------ Forwarded ------------------------------
From: "Sasso-CMS040 Mike"
To: "chris.jenner@apropos.com@INTERNET"
(Receipt Notification Requested)
(Reply not requested),
"virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET"
(Receipt Notification Requested) (Reply not requested)
Subject: RE: Unsold (091)2752(093) (091)2770(093) (091)2772(093)
(091)2779(093)
Autoforwarded: TRUE
Importance: normal
Message-Id:
--Boundary_[ID_I2jKFbnyWjabcl4QTjoBvA]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 16:50:50.02
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: Unsold fans [2812]
---------------------------------------------------
Several people in "The Pud" partnership have stated that they would
consider sending Unsold to FL. These are Bob Bowman (13.90%), Joe
Calvo (12.50%), Myself (4.15%), Mike Sasso (1.40%) and Allan Weston
(1.4%). This acounts for 33.3% of the Unsold partnership. I believe
this would be classified as "interest" in the Florida option. Any other
partners that might consider sending the "Pud to Paradise", please send
a message stating so to the post. This "is not" a vote to send him to
FL, it is a compilation of interest in the idea and is not in anyway
binding.
Joe (no legal mind) Pacheco
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 12:21:02.98
From: IN%"RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net"
From: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net
Subject: Midwest Circuit [2811]
---------------------------------------------------
With the talk about moving Unsold it seems an appropiate time to ask how
the Midwest circuit is coming along. This is the option to Florida at
the end of FG last season where we would have alternative tracks and
trainers in the Midwest to provide us more flexibility.
How many tracks and trainers do we currently have lined up?
It's been 6 months, is it established to the point where we have
alternatives for Unsold and some of the other horses yet?
Bob B.
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 11:39:24.73
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: Unsold [2752] [2770] [2772] [2779] [2788] [2804] [2805][2809] [2810]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-03 12:02:00 EDT, you write:
<< I'm already on record as being in favor of a move. As I see it we
currently have 4 possible votes (Joe P., Allan, Mike and myself)
representing about 21% of the Unsold shares.
We lost Unsold's 3YO season to injury. We limited his 4YO season by
taking a turf horse and interrupting his comeback from injury by putting
him in a non-turf venue.
I'd like to give him one legitimate shot at a turf season and that
requires turf available year round.
OK Now you've heard my basic reasoning. I'd like to hear what Joe Calvo
and Mark Devine have to say.
Where do you see Unsold's future unfolding? Why?
If Joe C., Mark, Cal and Terry line up against moving the horse the
control about 42% of the vote and it's a lost cause. I'd like to have
some idea what these people are thinking.
Bob B. >>
I agree that its time to discuss Unsold's future...I think that we may have
turned a corner with him. Though he's not winning yet, we're not sure what
may happen once he does win one. He's made great imporvement of late & I
personally would like to see just how far this improvement will continue.
I'm not ready to commit my % either way, but as of today, I would vote to
move him south rather than sell him outright...
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 10:49:34.76
From: IN%"RBDN74A@prodigy.com"
From: RBDN74A@prodigy.com
Subject: Internet Message [2808]
---------------------------------------------------
Joe,
I would certainly be willing to discuss the idea. I currently have a
horse with Keith Sirota at the Meadowlands and have been very
satisfied with him. I like him a lot. FYI he will be heading back to
Florida in November.
Regards,
Joe Calvo
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 09:32:29.26
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: RE: Fwd: RE: Unsold [2752] [2770] [2772] [2779] [2788] [2804]
---------------------------------------------------
>> Here are some more positives for Florida-New jersey circuit......besides
his famiilarity with the grass course at
hialeah...<<
Allan/all:
Twice I've campaigned to get Unsold to Florida to race at Hialeah. Twice
I've lost. I'm not going to campaign a third time. Not because I don't want
to see him down there, but because it's frustrating to spend so much time
and energy and not get results. In addition, the second campaign resulted in
Pat O'neill selling his shares and leaving the partnership because of
frustration. Pat is a good friend. I'd hate to see that happen to anyone
else. Things get pretty heated up when we start lobbying to have one of our
horses under another trainer.
Anyhow, because of my numerous calls to Hialeah, I'm on the mailing list for
the track. I get the condition books and have received a list of trainers
who train at Hialeah. If that list would be of any use to anyone, let me
know and I'll find a way make it available to the partners.
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
From: biggestal2@webtv.net@INTERNET on Thu, Oct 2, 1997 5:28 PM
Subject: Fwd: RE: Unsold [2752] [2770] [2772] [2779] [2788]
Enclosure: enclosure number 1
Mike,all Unsold partners,
Granted his last was disappionting he ran an 80 or a
near 80 in 3 of his 7 grass races....he last I caculated as a 71 not
very good.....Here is a question for Unsold's owners to ponder how much
money is Unsold worth today if we the partner sold him right this
second.......could the next partner who sees Liane ask her opionion.
please it would go long way in helping the partnership to deal with
him.
Here are some more positives for Florida-New jersey
circuit......besides his famiilarity with the grass course at
hialeah...when Soirota brings him to New Jersry next spring for the
monmouth meeting......Mike /all , they run tons of 16k to 20k claimers
about the same par as AP (only bigger purses)...besides that we can
choose from 4 count,em 4 if we don't like or the pud don't like teomp at
monmouth within 4 hour van ride with turf courses....we won't be a slave
to one condition book as we are right now.
Allan
------------------------------ Forwarded ------------------------------
From: "Sasso-CMS040 Mike"
To: "chris.jenner@apropos.com@INTERNET"
(Receipt Notification Requested)
(Reply not requested),
"virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET"
(Receipt Notification Requested) (Reply not requested)
Subject: RE: Unsold (091)2752(093) (091)2770(093) (091)2772(093)
(091)2779(093)
Autoforwarded: TRUE
Importance: normal
Message-Id:
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 09:11:33.50
From: IN%"channic@kcco.com" "Tom Channic"
From: channic@kcco.com
Subject: STREAK CONTEST Tote [2803]
---------------------------------------------------
Here's the lastest odds based on the vote to date. I encourage every one
to send a vote before Itbaya's post time Saturday. If the check streak
ends with her, I will still take votes for the next winner, but someone who
submitted a guess before the number was known will automatically win a
tiebreaker with someone who didn't!
DA ODDS
Now Yest. M/L
Kristy L's Halo 7-2 2-1 6-1
Itbaya 7-2 5-1 5-1
Unsold 7-2 99-1 7-1
Paparouna 8-1 5-1 7-2
Dance Naturally 8-1 5-1 4-1
Lady Lomond 8-1 5-1 10-1
NextHorse(tm) 99-1 99-1 18-1
Check Streak Over/Under: 13 1/2
Good luck to Itbaya!
Tom C.
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 08:48:40.64
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Itbaya - 4get it [2802]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I picked up a DRF this morning to check
out Itbaya's race and I have a strong feeling
Liane is going to scratch Itbaya and wait for a
race at Hawthorne (the 14th, I believe). I'll
try to get ahold of her at lunchtime and relay
her plans.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 08:35:18.17
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: KLH [2753] [2759] [2800]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-01 20:00:10 EDT, you write:
<< I don't think the surgery is going to allow him to move up
in class much, if at all. >>
this is an unknown at this point & I dont think we can factor it in to any
type of plan at this point....
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 08:32:23.80
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: LA Stuff [2762] [2799]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-01 20:49:38 EDT, you write:
<< I am also in favor of tabling any talk of an exit plan on KLH till more
is known. I feel if healthy he is our very best horse..... of known
quantity (that will keep me safe from the Paparona crowd). I would like
to see him end up in LA, if it fiscally correct. Being close to Lone
Star around the end of the FG meet for a TX bred gives us other options
as well. Many of the trainers from FG go to LS from this meet. >>
I agree with you here Brian...however I would never want to see KLH claimed
by that SOB who had him first...he abused KLH to an extent that he's still a
little jumpy at times. I was very impressed with the Lone Star meet (at
least as much as I could tell from here) and think that it may fill a market
that AP's closing will create...maybe some of our partners in the great state
of Texas could start researching for us...in the mean time I look forward to
a road trip to Nawlins this winter & think a trip to " Big D-little a-double
ll-as" would be fun too....I know Joe P. knows where to go for fun!!..am I
right here Joe???
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 08:31:30.06
From: IN%"ChgoRanger@aol.com"
From: ChgoRanger@aol.com
Subject: Re: Partner bidding [2763] [2798]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 97-10-01 20:49:45 EDT, you write:
<< I'll patrol for pain in the a_ _ birds so as not to distract potential
su....I mean buyers.
ap >>
maybe we could pass out some broc-a-brella hats to all buyers!!!
Sean
VOP MAIL PAGE
3-OCT-1997 06:54:11.88
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: wine season [2789] [2796]
---------------------------------------------------
>Well, phase one in the wine-making process is over! Now to concentrate on
>getting the purple to disappear from my hands by post time! No easy task!
Hey, purple is our color! Leave it on and show your
VOP affiliation. That's much safer than wearing a
VOP shirt.
====================================================
Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care.
----------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
====================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 23:09:23.77
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723] [2760] [2794]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 10/3/97 10:59:46 AM, you wrote:
<>
Debbie,
Thanks for the info. I appreciate all the news I can get. I'm still
confused, though cuz Liane told me after the race that Paparouna had run with
the allergy medication. This didn't seem right at the time, because I too
had heard that she'd been taken off of it early in the week. If you or Cal
or someone could get the straight scoop on this and pass it on, I'd be
grateful.
Thanks again,
Bob P.
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 23:03:21.39
From: IN%"chris.jenner@apropos.com"
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com
Subject: Re: wine season [2789] [2793]
---------------------------------------------------
We can still have it on the AP backstretch -- as long as there aren't
condos there by then...
At 04:58 PM 10/2/97 -0500, mikep@ameritech.net wrote:
>Well, phase one in the wine-making process is over! Now to concentrate on
>getting the purple to disappear from my hands by post time! No easy task!
>
>I'll have to bring a sample at vop 98.
>Will it be at Sportsman?
>Or a non track site?
>ap
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 17:14:20.07
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: wine season [2789] [2791]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_epp3JNuZKEL5MN5DD+R/KQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
AP/all,
Well if its July again....they will be racing at haw and
although I loved it....Well I also love Unsold........so others might
not enjoy it as much as I did....we might have to have the picnic
somewhere else but besides that I am game.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_epp3JNuZKEL5MN5DD+R/KQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 16:58:41 -0500
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: wine season [2789]
X-Sender: mikep@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <3.0.2.32.19971002165841.006a9b28@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Well, phase one in the wine-making process is over! Now to concentrate on
getting the purple to disappear from my hands by post time! No easy task!
I'll have to bring a sample at vop 98.
Will it be at Sportsman?
Or a non track site?
ap
--Boundary_[ID_epp3JNuZKEL5MN5DD+R/KQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 17:02:36.42
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: wine season [2789]
---------------------------------------------------
Well, phase one in the wine-making process is over! Now to concentrate on
getting the purple to disappear from my hands by post time! No easy task!
I'll have to bring a sample at vop 98.
Will it be at Sportsman?
Or a non track site?
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 16:55:39.48
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: RE: Unsold [2752] [2770] [2772] [2779] [2788]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_UshPC7zPVVX2m2I33Hs33w]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Mike,all Unsold partners,
Granted his last was disappionting he ran an 80 or a
near 80 in 3 of his 7 grass races....he last I caculated as a 71 not
very good.....Here is a question for Unsold's owners to ponder how much
money is Unsold worth today if we the partner sold him right this
second.......could the next partner who sees Liane ask her opionion.
please it would go long way in helping the partnership to deal with
him.
Here are some more positives for Florida-New jersey
circuit......besides his famiilarity with the grass course at
hialeah...when Soirota brings him to New Jersry next spring for the
monmouth meeting......Mike /all , they run tons of 16k to 20k claimers
about the same par as AP (only bigger purses)...besides that we can
choose from 4 count,em 4 if we don't like or the pud don't like teomp at
monmouth within 4 hour van ride with turf courses....we won't be a slave
to one condition book as we are right now.
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_UshPC7zPVVX2m2I33Hs33w]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 09:19:28 -0500
From: Mike Sasso-CMS040
Subject: RE: Unsold [2752] [2770] [2772] [2779]
To: chris.jenner@apropos.com (Receipt Notification Requested),
virtual-owners@vop.org (Receipt Notification Requested)
Message-id: <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS>
X-Mailer: Worldtalk (4.1.1-p1)/STREAM
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com,
sender Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com )
Chris J. wrote:
>>Is there sufficient interest in some of the VOP partners in forming a
non-VOP/Liane partnership and purchasing Unsold, and racing him somewhere
other than Chicago or Louisiana<<
I'd rather use the money in purchasing a *fast* horse.
I think we've witnessed enough races at AP this meet to now be able to
determine what type of horse Unsold currently is. Although we've cashed a
few checks, he's consistently getting outrun by a couple horses each race
that he should probably beat. He's had a few different jocks. Been
introduced to different types of riding styles. Each time, there's been at
least one horse that's made him look like he's standing still in the stretch.
In the race that he finished 2nd, the horse that left him standing still in
the stretch was General AJ. The General is a $14K - $20K claimer at best.
That's probably what Unsold is. I think he can still catch a weak NW1X field
and get us a big check. A change of trainers might do him some good. But how
long do we waiting for him to prove to us that he can win a few races?
Dignify and the other two horses that outran him badly in his last race were
no world beaters. It will be worse in Kenucky or Florida.
I'm not against keeping him and racing him down south, especially if we
can't recover at least 60%-75% of what we paid for him by unloading him. I'm
just not too confident that he's gonna win a bunch of races for us if we
send him to a track that doesn't card turf races below the $15K level.
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net@INTERNET; biggestal2@webtv.net@INTERNET
Cc: VIRTUAL-OWNERS@vop.org@INTERNET
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com@INTERNET on Thu, Oct 2, 1997 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: Unsold [2752] [2770] [2772]
Bob, are you implying the only two options are FG-layoff-Haw or exit, i.e.
sell Unsold? Allan has provided a viable alternative w.r.t. K. Sirota. Some
AP trainers are heading to Arkansas. And although it's anecdotal analysis,
I heard at least one trainer say he felt the competition in Ark. was
similar to AP, but with bigger purses. There are other alternatives.
I suspect several of the Unsold partners have seen sufficient performance
in the past three months to warrant their interest in keeping him, and
finding a place where he can be competitive -- and there are such places.
Although he was a true slug from the time we claimed him till midway
through the AP meet, I'm excited to be a partner on a horse that's now
pretty competitive at Alw NWEX/N2L, and decent level claimers.
This, and a couple earlier posts kind of skirt the question of whether VOP
= Liane, i.e. any and all VOP horses MUST be conditioned by Liane. No
knocks against Liane, but aren't certain trainers better with certain
animals, depending on their age, level, situation, preferred
surface/distance, personality, etc.? Do the big tuna owners restrict
themselves blindly to one trainer (even if it's Lukas or Baffert or
whoever)? -- BTW, that's intended to be a genuine question, no implication
intended -- I have no hard data.
If VOP is inextricably locked to Liane, and the "VOP" partners select Bob's
option of unload Unsold (great rock lyrics..... Sean), then: Is there
sufficient interest in some of the VOP partners in forming a non-VOP/Liane
partnership and purchasing Unsold, and racing him somewhere other than
Chicago or Louisiana?
-- Chris "I wanna keep the pud even though he bit me and run him
competitively somewhere, even if not in Chicago (esp. now that AP may have
a fork in it)" J.
At 09:35 PM 10/1/97 -0500, RTBOWMAN wrote:
>Allan Weston wrote:
>>
>> Partners,
>> The flash is another story......My 1.4% is OPPOSED to
>> selling him until after the turf season is over with...than as with
>> Itbaya we have a descion to make I layed out the options that I felt
>> were viable in a post last month.....those options still remain....my
>> first thoughts are since some partners are concerned about the Chicago
>> turf season being shorten next year Lets rest him until the first of the
>> year and then send him to K sirota down in Fla where they have turf
>> racing in Feb march April and than up to monmouth......he will be
>> competitive at Hialeah and monmouth.......and I am willing to be the
>> eyes and the ears for the flash here in New Jersey.....its a little too
>> early in the flash's career to give up on him (we gave him all of 7 turf
>> races with a top BEYER of 80 not bad). He has brought back checks in 5
>> of those 7 races.....so it's not that he is totally useless....with
>> proper care he WILL break his NW1.......he needs turf and I feel the
>> Florida-New Jersey circuit is made for him......NO "missing" turf
>> months....well thats it for Unsold.
>>
>> Allan
>Allan,
>
> I agree that we should keep racing Unsold. However, I don't consider
>the VOP plan of FG-layoff-Hawthorne as a legitimate turf season for
>Unsold. That is the one option where I'd vote my 13.9% for an exit
>strategy instead.
>
> Bob B.
>
--Boundary_[ID_UshPC7zPVVX2m2I33Hs33w]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 16:48:25.09
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: RE: Itbaya racing on Saturday [2783] [2787]
---------------------------------------------------
Interesting to see Song Song Sing entered in a $16K claimer agaist Bantan
and some other boys. That's the mare that Itbaya usually races against,
isn't it?
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com@INTERNET on Thu, Oct 2, 1997 2:26 PM
Subject: Itbaya racing on Saturday [2783]
Y'all,
Apparently the racing secretary at AP isn't keen
on writing an extra 16K claimer for Itbaya, so Liane went
ahead and entered Itbaya for Saturday in the N3X. The good
news is we didn't catch Dress Shoes. The bad news is we
caught up and coming 3yo Runaway Emily A. Silva chose
another over us and we have Chris Valovich for the ride.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 16:46:13.66
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya racing on Saturday [2783] [2784] [2786]
---------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2 Oct 1997, Debby Derlacki wrote:
> And she's got post position #4, Terry's magic number!
And the race is on October 4th! It's the 6th race... but October is the
10th month... look! 10 - 6 = 4!!!!!!!!
Bet the nestegg :)
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 16:39:08.84
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: Itbaya racing on Saturday [2783] [2784] [2785]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_YICLiaNmvwUo+KxgrKhMQQ]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Debby/all,
She drew well ....well at least there is one horse Itsy
will beat the 11....Itsy smashed her last time and will smash her this
time as well............If anybody's got a lucky rabbit foot or anyother
good luck charm.....that STILL has good luck in it.......pull it out for
Itsy on Sat....these are some tough fillies and Mares
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_YICLiaNmvwUo+KxgrKhMQQ]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 15:21:20 -0500
From: debbderl@uic.edu (Debby Derlacki)
Subject: Re: Itbaya racing on Saturday [2783] [2784]
X-Sender: debbderl@POP3SERV7.cc.uic.edu
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Message-id: <199710022024.PAA16416@eeyore.cc.uic.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
>Y'all,
> Apparently the racing secretary at AP isn't keen
>on writing an extra 16K claimer for Itbaya, so Liane went
>ahead and entered Itbaya for Saturday in the N3X. The good
>news is we didn't catch Dress Shoes. The bad news is we
>caught up and coming 3yo Runaway Emily A. Silva chose
>another over us and we have Chris Valovich for the ride.
>
>Cal
>
And she's got post position #4, Terry's magic number!
Debby D
--Boundary_[ID_YICLiaNmvwUo+KxgrKhMQQ]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 15:31:31.86
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Re: Itbaya racing on Saturday [2783] [2784]
---------------------------------------------------
>Y'all,
> Apparently the racing secretary at AP isn't keen
>on writing an extra 16K claimer for Itbaya, so Liane went
>ahead and entered Itbaya for Saturday in the N3X. The good
>news is we didn't catch Dress Shoes. The bad news is we
>caught up and coming 3yo Runaway Emily A. Silva chose
>another over us and we have Chris Valovich for the ride.
>
>Cal
>
And she's got post position #4, Terry's magic number!
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 13:59:19.08
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Itbaya racing on Saturday [2783]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
Apparently the racing secretary at AP isn't keen
on writing an extra 16K claimer for Itbaya, so Liane went
ahead and entered Itbaya for Saturday in the N3X. The good
news is we didn't catch Dress Shoes. The bad news is we
caught up and coming 3yo Runaway Emily A. Silva chose
another over us and we have Chris Valovich for the ride.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 13:55:00.67
From: IN%"milesm@slewpy.drf.com"
From: milesm@slewpy.drf.com
Subject: StableMail -- Itbaya [2782]
---------------------------------------------------
This is a notice from the Daily Racing Form's online StableMail which
informs you when certain horses will be running in the near future. You
are receiving this message because Itbaya is entered to run
in the 6th race at Arlington Park on October 4, 1997. For more information
about the race, be sure to check out Daily Racing Form's web site
at http://www.drf.com/ or view the entries for this race at
http://www.drf.com/entries/04/APX.html.
You also wrote the following notes about this horse:
Other Information About this Race
---------------------------------
Race Type: Allowance
Purse: $26,000
Claiming Price for Itbaya (if applicable):
Surface: Turf
Distance: 1 1/16 Miles
Jockey: Valovich C J
Post Position: 4
# of horses in race: 11
--------------------------------
If you'd like to remove Itbaya from your list of horses to watch,
go to the StableMail removal form at http://www.drf.com/stablemail/remove.html.
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 09:29:36.68
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya [2751] [2780]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 1, 5:51pm, Allan Weston wrote:
> Subject: Itbaya [2751]
> Partners,
> Since we are a partnership, Cal I assume we will be
> voting on this.
yes.
> My vote will be to wait until turf season is over for
> Itbaya. Then obviously we have a descion to make.
> Selling her outright at auction is one plan. Here are my thoughts. Lets
> use Liane's advice and breed her to a nice Illinios stallion in the
> spring or whenever Itsy's comes into heat....I am not too sure about
> equine reproduction. (maybe one of the partners who doescould help me
> mke my case)......and lets sell her at auction in foal......there is a
> two fold advantage to this........We are putting one more magnificent TB
> on this earth and secondly she bring a better price in
> foal.........IMHO we will be giving back to racing another TB (after all
> the short fields and the closing of AP they need all the help they can
> get)
I would like to see Itbaya bred just to keep those
sound Palace Music genes in the mix. Itbaya has raced until
six and has never had any joint problems. That's remarkable.
However, I'm not sure I'd want to carry her another
year. We would have farm bills of roughly $400/month until
she was shipped off to be bred. $X in stud fees where X is
likely to be between 2,000 & 10,000, plus another $600/month
boarding while she's at the stud's farm then another $400/month
farm bills back here. It's probably easier to leave her in
KY, so make the farm bills $600/month from March -> Nov.
Taking a quick tally, I come up with costs of:
Farm (Nov -> Feb) $ 1,600
Van to KY $ 400
Stud Fee $ ?,???
Farm (Mar -> Oct) $ 4,800
-------
$ 6,800 + stud fee
So, let's take $5,000 as the stud fee and toss in
an extra $200 in expenses to make an even $12K in expenses
for the experiment. We'll lose 5% on the auction's commission
plus 5% on the consigner's commission. So by breeding her
we'd need to make an extra $13,000 to break even.
There's also some risk that Itsy may have fertility
problems or she might slip the foal.
Cal
> Allan
>-- End of excerpt from Allan Weston
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 09:19:43.05
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: RE: Unsold [2752] [2770] [2772] [2779]
---------------------------------------------------
Chris J. wrote:
>>Is there sufficient interest in some of the VOP partners in forming a
non-VOP/Liane partnership and purchasing Unsold, and racing him somewhere
other than Chicago or Louisiana<<
I'd rather use the money in purchasing a *fast* horse.
I think we've witnessed enough races at AP this meet to now be able to
determine what type of horse Unsold currently is. Although we've cashed a
few checks, he's consistently getting outrun by a couple horses each race
that he should probably beat. He's had a few different jocks. Been
introduced to different types of riding styles. Each time, there's been at
least one horse that's made him look like he's standing still in the stretch.
In the race that he finished 2nd, the horse that left him standing still in
the stretch was General AJ. The General is a $14K - $20K claimer at best.
That's probably what Unsold is. I think he can still catch a weak NW1X field
and get us a big check. A change of trainers might do him some good. But how
long do we waiting for him to prove to us that he can win a few races?
Dignify and the other two horses that outran him badly in his last race were
no world beaters. It will be worse in Kenucky or Florida.
I'm not against keeping him and racing him down south, especially if we
can't recover at least 60%-75% of what we paid for him by unloading him. I'm
just not too confident that he's gonna win a bunch of races for us if we
send him to a track that doesn't card turf races below the $15K level.
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: RTBOWMAN@prodigy.net@INTERNET; biggestal2@webtv.net@INTERNET
Cc: VIRTUAL-OWNERS@vop.org@INTERNET
From: chris.jenner@apropos.com@INTERNET on Thu, Oct 2, 1997 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: Unsold [2752] [2770] [2772]
Bob, are you implying the only two options are FG-layoff-Haw or exit, i.e.
sell Unsold? Allan has provided a viable alternative w.r.t. K. Sirota. Some
AP trainers are heading to Arkansas. And although it's anecdotal analysis,
I heard at least one trainer say he felt the competition in Ark. was
similar to AP, but with bigger purses. There are other alternatives.
I suspect several of the Unsold partners have seen sufficient performance
in the past three months to warrant their interest in keeping him, and
finding a place where he can be competitive -- and there are such places.
Although he was a true slug from the time we claimed him till midway
through the AP meet, I'm excited to be a partner on a horse that's now
pretty competitive at Alw NWEX/N2L, and decent level claimers.
This, and a couple earlier posts kind of skirt the question of whether VOP
= Liane, i.e. any and all VOP horses MUST be conditioned by Liane. No
knocks against Liane, but aren't certain trainers better with certain
animals, depending on their age, level, situation, preferred
surface/distance, personality, etc.? Do the big tuna owners restrict
themselves blindly to one trainer (even if it's Lukas or Baffert or
whoever)? -- BTW, that's intended to be a genuine question, no implication
intended -- I have no hard data.
If VOP is inextricably locked to Liane, and the "VOP" partners select Bob's
option of unload Unsold (great rock lyrics..... Sean), then: Is there
sufficient interest in some of the VOP partners in forming a non-VOP/Liane
partnership and purchasing Unsold, and racing him somewhere other than
Chicago or Louisiana?
-- Chris "I wanna keep the pud even though he bit me and run him
competitively somewhere, even if not in Chicago (esp. now that AP may have
a fork in it)" J.
At 09:35 PM 10/1/97 -0500, RTBOWMAN wrote:
>Allan Weston wrote:
>>
>> Partners,
>> The flash is another story......My 1.4% is OPPOSED to
>> selling him until after the turf season is over with...than as with
>> Itbaya we have a descion to make I layed out the options that I felt
>> were viable in a post last month.....those options still remain....my
>> first thoughts are since some partners are concerned about the Chicago
>> turf season being shorten next year Lets rest him until the first of the
>> year and then send him to K sirota down in Fla where they have turf
>> racing in Feb march April and than up to monmouth......he will be
>> competitive at Hialeah and monmouth.......and I am willing to be the
>> eyes and the ears for the flash here in New Jersey.....its a little too
>> early in the flash's career to give up on him (we gave him all of 7 turf
>> races with a top BEYER of 80 not bad). He has brought back checks in 5
>> of those 7 races.....so it's not that he is totally useless....with
>> proper care he WILL break his NW1.......he needs turf and I feel the
>> Florida-New Jersey circuit is made for him......NO "missing" turf
>> months....well thats it for Unsold.
>>
>> Allan
>Allan,
>
> I agree that we should keep racing Unsold. However, I don't consider
>the VOP plan of FG-layoff-Hawthorne as a legitimate turf season for
>Unsold. That is the one option where I'd vote my 13.9% for an exit
>strategy instead.
>
> Bob B.
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 08:58:35.90
From: IN%"dan.m.neurock@ac.com" "dan.m.neurock"
From: dan.m.neurock@ac.com
Subject: -No Subject- [2778]
---------------------------------------------------
I totally agree with Steve Lewis' comments below regarding KLH. This summer
has been cash call after cash call to provide this horse with the medical
attention that he needs and deserves. Now that he's finally near healthy,
we're discussing an exit strategy???? This makes no sense at all.
If we wanted an exit strategy, we would have agreed to retire him instead of
sending him to surgery. The only reason I agreed to the surgery was to see
this horse come back and run.
Cal, I'd like further explanation.
>>Cal and KLH Partners:
>>I am a little concerned about Cal's comment about looking
>>for an exit strategy for KLH. We have invested a fair amount
>>of money in her surgery. I am very concerned that we are
>>going to get her back in form just in time for the Chicago
>>racing season to end. I for one have not given up on KLH and
>>I am really not interested in losing her until she has at least
>>three efforts racing once her preparation for racing is done.
>>I know we may be living on borrowed time but I know I have
>>a lot of money invested in KLH, to much to just let her go at
>>this point. I would be interested in other partners thoughts on this one.
>>Having said this if her knees start acting up obviously all of the above
>>is moot. But I believe KLH should be very competitive at 10K or higher
>>at Hawthorne.
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 08:55:16.38
From: IN%"dverret@orthodon.com" "dverret@orthodon.com"
From: dverret@orthodon.com
Subject: RE: LA Stuff [2762] [2777]
---------------------------------------------------
Brian,
I would like to see KLH come back to Louisiana too, but unfortunately =
neither Louisiana nor Texas is his home. According to my records, the =
four year old Gelding was bred in Kentucky. He raced in Texas for a =
Texan owner/breeder, but he did not breed the big horse. If memory =
serves me correct, we claimed him from the following connections: Joe =
Duhon-trainer, John Perron- Owner, Corey Lanerie-jockey. A lot of the =
owners other horses have the "Kristy" in it, or another female name.=20
David
-----Original Message-----
From: B.Brandt [SMTP:bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 1997 7:33 PM
To: VOP list
Subject: LA Stuff [2762]
Joe/all,
Liane is planning on coming to the FG meet.
I am willing/able to be at the service of VOP for anything that you may
need. I do believe in team work and chain of command, so anything for
VOP I would like run through Cal first.
I am also in favor of tabling any talk of an exit plan on KLH till more
is known. I feel if healthy he is our very best horse..... of known
quantity (that will keep me safe from the Paparona crowd). I would like
to see him end up in LA, if it fiscally correct. Being close to Lone
Star around the end of the FG meet for a TX bred gives us other options
as well. Many of the trainers from FG go to LS from this meet.
This is all based on the fact that he is healthy and able to race and if
so he should be running at Hawthorn till that time. Do they write that
N4L I hear of?
I am mostly looking forward to seeing the big guy run again.
After TOS's win i have a few bucks very few) and the FG yearling sale is
in 14 days!!!!!!!
Good to see the list come to life.
Brian brandt
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 08:40:43.84
From: IN%"joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com" "Pacheco, Joe"
From: joe.pacheco@exsc01.exch.eds.com
Subject: KLH/Unsold [2776]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Just went through a pile of posts and her are some observations:
1) The thought of running Unsold in Arkansas; I don't believe Oaklawn
has a turf course.
2) I have the DRF for KLH race on 3/6/97 and it shows him as a Kentucky
bred not a Texas bred (I hope this is a mistake).
3) I to hope KLH will run in LA (I just hope his former trainer doesn't
drop a claim on him, the smuck).
4) If KLH is a Texas bred, I sure I can find a suitable trainer to
handle him while he is at Lone Star. I'll volunter to assist Cal in the
logistics.
5) I would be in favor of giving Unsold a shot at FL.
Joe P
VOP MAIL PAGE
2-OCT-1997 07:57:04.01
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: KLH [2753] [2774]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I think my message on KLH and Nat was lost.
I said that near the end of the year we should take a look
at both of them an decide if we want to carry them into 1998.
I haven't given up on either of them yet.
Cal
----------
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 1997 5:23 PM
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: KLH [2753]
Cal and KLH Partners:
I am a little concerned about Cal's comment about looking
for an exit strategy for KLH. We have invested a fair amount
of money in her surgery. I am very concerned that we are
going to get her back in form just in time for the Chicago
racing season to end. I for one have not given up on KLH and
I am really not interested in losing her until she has at least
three efforts racing once her preparation for racing is done.
I know we may be living on borrowed time but I know I have
a lot of money invested in KLH, to much to just let her go at
this point. I would be interested in other partners thoughts on this one.
Having said this if her knees start acting up obviously all of the above
is moot. But I believe KLH should be very competitive at 10K or higher
at Hawthorne.
Steve Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 22:08:37.56
From: IN%"LREN83A@prodigy.com"
From: LREN83A@prodigy.com
Subject: LA Stuff [2771]
---------------------------------------------------
Brian
Congratulations on Trail of Smoke win, and may there be many more.
Steve Ostman
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 20:46:41.52
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: Correction [2769]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners:
Sorry about giving KLH a sex change operation. I guess
he has been costing me more than my wife and two daughters
so I got confused. I am serious about giving him a chance to
make us some money. After all, all the money in the world can't
buy a heart like his.
Steve Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 20:25:01.39
From: IN%"debbderl@uic.edu"
From: debbderl@uic.edu
Subject: Re: Itbaya [2734] [2767]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal wrote, in part:
>Itbaya handles the dirt well for 6f, so we >could try dropping her down to
get claimed.
Gut reaction: no. If she's not an attractive racing prospect for us, let's
retire her as a broodmare or riding horse.
>If there's interest in breeding Itbaya or if the Mills still want to buy
her, >the fair thing to do is put her through the Keeneland horses of all
ages sale >in January. That way, the market will set a fair price and
nobody should feel >like we sold too high/low.
See Terry's e-mail below.
Terry wrote:
>If we could find a way to re-capitalize Itbaya at some agreed upon price as
>a broodmare, allow all the partners that want out to get out, and lower the
>ownership percentages of some of those of us who currently have an
>excessive percentage, I wouldn't mind trying out the breeding angle
>ourselves.
>
>We had the one estimate of $5000 at auction as a broodmare, and the
>offer of $8000 from Kate Mills. Would people dissolve this partnership
>at somewhere in that range? Would we have enough interest in trying
>a breeding experiment?
>
>Terry
First:
I went back and checked in the archives; the estimated broodmare price I
found was $2500 (2nd-half Nov. '96, note from J. Bosky refers to this, which
was obtained earlier in the year, when it was thought that being a Cigar
(Palace Music) relative might improve Itsy's price).
If she is sold at Keeneland for $2500-5000, what would the actual net be
after a van ride is paid off and comission deducted? Are there other
expenses, such as a daily boarding charge while at the sale?
Would the net be larger if Itsy was sold privately to a partnership of
VOPs/others?
Second:
Any info out there on costs for breeding/maintaining a broodmare? Itsy sure
does seem to have some good-leg and good-health genes. Could be fun if the
costs aren't excessive.
Debby D
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 19:50:47.23
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2744] [2750] [2766]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
It's done all the time to boost the bidding 8^).
No, there's no problems.
Cal
----------
From: Dale E. Herman
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 1997 4:00 PM
To: Virtual Owners Partnership
Subject: Re: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2744] [2750]
On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Cal Jestice wrote:
> If there's interest in breed-
> ing Itbaya or if the Mills still want to buy her, the fair thing
> to do is put her through the Keeneland horses of all ages sale in
> January. That way, the market will set a fair price and nobody
> should feel like we sold too high/low.
Is there any issue with a group of partners bidding on their own horse at
auction?
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 19:43:35.27
From: IN%"bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET" "B.Brandt"
From: bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET
Subject: CONTEST! [2730] [2756] [2765]
---------------------------------------------------
>
I say the streak of 18 and the next winner will be KLH.
bb
> Subject: On the Bright Side (LL) -- CONTEST! [2730]
> Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 10:29:20 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Tom Channic
> CC: virtual-owners@vop.org
>
> Liane has 50% winners so far at the Hawthorne meet. (Cheers to Brian
> Brandt!)
>
> True, the 4ths and 5ths won't cut it, but Lady's check was VOP's ninth
>
> in as many races. This ties the all-time VOP record streak that ended
>
> with Itbaya's first win. This streak helps to swallow the current
> winless
> streak (whose counting? [22]).
>
> Listen. Do you smell something? It's a contest brewing (not to be
> confused with a brewing contest). Pick the horse that breaks the
> winless streak. Also pick the final number of the check-winning
> streak
> as a a tie-breaker. Prizes are yet to be determined but will include
> all the charts (in text format) from the historic Arlington "Throw
> in the Towel" meet and, if you're lucky, a bottle of Sour Mix.
>
> For completeness' sake, I will allow NextHorse(tm) as an entry meaning
>
> any horse not currently under complete VOP ownership. Post entries
> to the list or mail me privately.
>
> My picks: KLH for VOP's next winner and a final check-winning streak
> of 20!
>
> Contest Morning Line Odds:
>
> Paparouna 7-2 No stopping her off a clean break
> Dance Naturally 4-1 Near bullet bodes well
> Itbaya 5-1 The class of VOP
> Kristy L's Halo 6-1 Has the heart if the legs are willing
> Unsold 7-1 New rider could do the trick
> Lady Lomond 10-1 Will the real LL report to the gate?
> NextHorse(tm) 18-1 Please don't let it come to this!
>
> Streak Over/Under: 13 1/2
>
> Good luck,
>
> Tom C.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 19:41:58.93
From: IN%"Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com" "Cal Jestice"
From: Cal_Jestice@classic.msn.com
Subject: RE: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2744] [2748] [2764]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I didn't intend to apply that we sell Nat or KLH.
Rather, when racing is winding down for the year, we
should take a look at both horses and decide if their
performance warrents keeping them over into 1998.
If we decide they can't cut it anymore, it would be
very beneficial to close out the partnerships in 1997
to save money on next year's taxes and to avoid
the carrying costs over the winter.
I think we should give both horses a chance
to show us they can compete.
Cal
----------
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 1997 3:24 PM
To: virtual-owners@vop.org
Subject: Re: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2744] [2748]
I also believe that later in the year we should make
>similar judgement calls on Dance Naturally and KLH.
>
>Cal
Well there goes 2/3's of my stable! With that sharp work of Nat's, don't
you think she may be over that splint problem?
Ideas anyone?
How much later in the year(assuming we want to move Nat?)
I was hoping for that track record from KLH. (like that quarter horse did
with the same operation). His heart is sure big enough!
ap
>
>
>On Oct 1, 9:47am, Dale E. Herman wrote:
>> Subject: Itbaya and Unsold [2725]
>> Well, the turf season is a few weeks from over here in Chicagoland and so
>> I think we've waited about as long as we can to discuss the future for
>> Itbaya and Unsold. My thoughts are:
>>
>> 1) I haven't heard any reason to expect improvement from either of these.
>> 2) Neither was able to pay their way at AP this year.
>> 3) Neither can pay their way at Fairgrounds.
>> 4) There isn't sufficient support to try the Florida circuit: Calder -
>> Rest or GP - Hialeah circuit this winter with another trainer.
>> 5) They can't compete at Keeneland or Churchill in the spring.
>> 6) The turf season next year is even shorter. Hawthorne doesn't open until
>> June 30, 1998.
>> 7) Purses *may* be higher at Hawthorne next year. Hawthorne *may* card
>> more low level turf races next year.
>> 8) It will be hard to pay the bills at Canterbury or River Downs.
>>
>> I don't want to put them on the farm for 7 months and wait for Hawthorne.
>> I think it's time for exit strategies. We could drop them into lower
>> level dirt races where someone may claim them, look for private sale
>> buyers, or put them in auction.
>>
>> Through the years we've joked a bit about breeding Itbaya ourselves, but I
>> doubt if there's interest in making that investment.
>>
>> I'd love to hear other's ideas on this subject.
>>
>> Dale H.
>>
>>-- End of excerpt from Dale E. Herman
>
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 19:40:27.80
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Partner bidding [2763]
---------------------------------------------------
Dale, all,
I don't see any problem with partner's bidding on Itsy. How else do ya
expect to get the price up?
I'll patrol for pain in the a_ _ birds so as not to distract potential
su....I mean buyers.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 19:40:00.30
From: IN%"bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET" "B.Brandt"
From: bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET
Subject: LA Stuff [2762]
---------------------------------------------------
Joe/all,
Liane is planning on coming to the FG meet.
I am willing/able to be at the service of VOP for anything that you may
need. I do believe in team work and chain of command, so anything for
VOP I would like run through Cal first.
I am also in favor of tabling any talk of an exit plan on KLH till more
is known. I feel if healthy he is our very best horse..... of known
quantity (that will keep me safe from the Paparona crowd). I would like
to see him end up in LA, if it fiscally correct. Being close to Lone
Star around the end of the FG meet for a TX bred gives us other options
as well. Many of the trainers from FG go to LS from this meet.
This is all based on the fact that he is healthy and able to race and if
so he should be running at Hawthorn till that time. Do they write that
N4L I hear of?
I am mostly looking forward to seeing the big guy run again.
After TOS's win i have a few bucks very few) and the FG yearling sale is
in 14 days!!!!!!!
Good to see the list come to life.
Brian brandt
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 19:15:19.20
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723] [2760]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 10/2/97 12:07:47 AM, jestice@pcs.mot.com wrote:
<< Paparouna is still tired from her last race. She's
taking a little longer to bounce back than Liane had hoped,
plus she's carring a little heat in the leg that was sore
earlier in the year. Liane is going easy on Paparouna and
I wouldn't expect her to get another race at AP this year.
Slow and steady is the plan for Paparouna.>>
I am worried about Paparouna. My concern began when I saw her on 9/20. She
didn't seem to be "herself", not at all the perky and vivacious filly I'd
seen a couple of months before. She seemed to have really mellowed out. Her
demeanor reminded me of the experience I had with my West Highland Terrier,
Peaches. (I DID NOT NAME HER!!!! ;-)) Peaches is allergic to 44 things
commonly found around the house. We put her on a program of allergy shots,
and she almost immediately went from a bouncy, hyperactive yippee little pup
to a laid back, relaxed and mellow little doggie. Does anybody know if
canines and equines react the same way to allergy medicine?? Can somebody
update me on Paparouna's allergies and her treatment?
IMHO, Paparouna's mellowness carried over into her race. I've never seen a
first-timer so relaxed. I didn't like the way she carried her head so low
that day, but Liane told me that was normal for her. Now I hear that she's
still tired, ten days after her race. Seems to me she should be itching to
get back at it at this point, unless she really is sore. Is sore the same as
tired, and if not, which is she?
Lastly, the recent lack of info tends to magnify my concern. I appreciate
all that Cal does to make VOP go...I can't imagine how many hours he must put
into it. He has a real job, as well and I understand the PAYING job takes
priority and that the hours there can get really long sometimes.
Nonetheless, as a remote partner I can never get too much information about
my horse...I look for it daily, even though I know there are only two Scoops
(apologies to Raisin Brand) a week. The more detail I get on how she's
doing, the less I worry. The less I worry, the less I babble on in posts
like this. So c'mon, locals .... tell us all you can about Paparouna.
Perspiring minds want to know! ;-)
Bob P.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 19:02:28.10
From: IN%"arbourc@flash.net" "Cary Arbour"
From: arbourc@flash.net
Subject: Re: KLH [2753] [2759]
---------------------------------------------------
Steve,
I would tend to agree with you. I would suggest running KLH in claiming
races where he can be very competitive. This would also mean the chance of
being claimed. I don't think the surgery is going to allow him to move up
in class much, if at all. When we can no longer see any improvement in
KLH's rehab, meaning future races and all, I would agree with Cal, look for
an exit strategy.
Unless I'm mistaken KLH is a gelding, we've got enough fillies in the
barn.
Cary
----------
> From: Burgooking@aol.com
> To: virtual-owners@vop.org
> Subject: KLH [2753]
> Date: Wednesday, October 01, 1997 5:23 PM
>
> Cal and KLH Partners:
>
> I am a little concerned about Cal's comment about looking
> for an exit strategy for KLH. We have invested a fair amount
> of money in her surgery. I am very concerned that we are
> going to get her back in form just in time for the Chicago
> racing season to end. I for one have not given up on KLH and
> I am really not interested in losing her until she has at least
> three efforts racing once her preparation for racing is done.
> I know we may be living on borrowed time but I know I have
> a lot of money invested in KLH, to much to just let her go at
> this point. I would be interested in other partners thoughts on this
one.
> Having said this if her knees start acting up obviously all of the above
> is moot. But I believe KLH should be very competitive at 10K or higher
> at Hawthorne.
>
> Steve Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 18:26:07.24
From: IN%"BobProc@aol.com"
From: BobProc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723] [2743] [2747] [2757]
---------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 10/2/97 6:14:48 AM, mikep@ameritech.net wrote:
<<>Great list. Gomez has turned down Unsold twice. Is there any
Just give me the word! I'll make him an offer he can't refuse.
a(the animal)p>>
Yeah, I could ask my Uncle Nunzio to give him a call, too!
Bob P.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 18:12:52.48
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: On the Bright Side (LL) -- CONTEST! [2730] [2756]
---------------------------------------------------
--Boundary_[ID_YC0RZhQ2oxPGEAlFi5bKUg]
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Tom,
Give me itsy for VOP's next and Itsy last win
Allan
--Boundary_[ID_YC0RZhQ2oxPGEAlFi5bKUg]
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 10:29:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Channic
Subject: On the Bright Side (LL) -- CONTEST! [2730]
In-reply-to:
Sender: channic@clark.devl.kcco.com
Cc: virtual-owners@vop.org
Reply-to: Tom Channic
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
X-Comments: BlackMail headers - Mail to abuse@kcco.com to report spam.
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X-Comments: These headers are here for you to report spam!
X-Authenticated-Connect: root@172.17.1.5
X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 10:29:21(CDT) on October 01, 1997
X-HELO-From: chile.bb.kcco.com
X-Mail-From: channic@kcco.com
X-Sender-IP-Address: 172.17.1.5
Comments: Virtual-Owners-Partnership Mailing List
Liane has 50% winners so far at the Hawthorne meet. (Cheers to Brian Brandt!)
True, the 4ths and 5ths won't cut it, but Lady's check was VOP's ninth
in as many races. This ties the all-time VOP record streak that ended
with Itbaya's first win. This streak helps to swallow the current winless
streak (whose counting? [22]).
Listen. Do you smell something? It's a contest brewing (not to be
confused with a brewing contest). Pick the horse that breaks the
winless streak. Also pick the final number of the check-winning streak
as a a tie-breaker. Prizes are yet to be determined but will include
all the charts (in text format) from the historic Arlington "Throw
in the Towel" meet and, if you're lucky, a bottle of Sour Mix.
For completeness' sake, I will allow NextHorse(tm) as an entry meaning
any horse not currently under complete VOP ownership. Post entries
to the list or mail me privately.
My picks: KLH for VOP's next winner and a final check-winning streak of 20!
Contest Morning Line Odds:
Paparouna 7-2 No stopping her off a clean break
Dance Naturally 4-1 Near bullet bodes well
Itbaya 5-1 The class of VOP
Kristy L's Halo 6-1 Has the heart if the legs are willing
Unsold 7-1 New rider could do the trick
Lady Lomond 10-1 Will the real LL report to the gate?
NextHorse(tm) 18-1 Please don't let it come to this!
Streak Over/Under: 13 1/2
Good luck,
Tom C.
--Boundary_[ID_YC0RZhQ2oxPGEAlFi5bKUg]--
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 17:46:52.59
From: IN%"goofer22@execpc.com"
From: goofer22@execpc.com
Subject: Racing Partnerships [2755]
---------------------------------------------------
I am interested in receiving more information about racing partnerships.
Geoff Alaishuski
1029 N. Jackson Apt 207A
Milwaukee, WI 53202
414 291-9819
goofer22@execpc.com
I am really impressed with your website and look forward to hearing from
you.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 17:34:41.85
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: KLH [2753] [2754]
---------------------------------------------------
Steve,
Agreed except for one minor detail. He's a He, not a her.
ap
At 06:23 PM 10/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Cal and KLH Partners:
>
>I am a little concerned about Cal's comment about looking
>for an exit strategy for KLH. We have invested a fair amount
>of money in her surgery. I am very concerned that we are
>going to get her back in form just in time for the Chicago
>racing season to end. I for one have not given up on KLH and
>I am really not interested in losing her until she has at least
>three efforts racing once her preparation for racing is done.
>I know we may be living on borrowed time but I know I have
>a lot of money invested in KLH, to much to just let her go at
>this point. I would be interested in other partners thoughts on this one.
>Having said this if her knees start acting up obviously all of the above
>is moot. But I believe KLH should be very competitive at 10K or higher
>at Hawthorne.
>
>Steve Lewis
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 17:26:44.02
From: IN%"Burgooking@aol.com"
From: Burgooking@aol.com
Subject: KLH [2753]
---------------------------------------------------
Cal and KLH Partners:
I am a little concerned about Cal's comment about looking
for an exit strategy for KLH. We have invested a fair amount
of money in her surgery. I am very concerned that we are
going to get her back in form just in time for the Chicago
racing season to end. I for one have not given up on KLH and
I am really not interested in losing her until she has at least
three efforts racing once her preparation for racing is done.
I know we may be living on borrowed time but I know I have
a lot of money invested in KLH, to much to just let her go at
this point. I would be interested in other partners thoughts on this one.
Having said this if her knees start acting up obviously all of the above
is moot. But I believe KLH should be very competitive at 10K or higher
at Hawthorne.
Steve Lewis
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 17:15:39.30
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Unsold [2752]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
The flash is another story......My 1.4% is OPPOSED to
selling him until after the turf season is over with...than as with
Itbaya we have a descion to make I layed out the options that I felt
were viable in a post last month.....those options still remain....my
first thoughts are since some partners are concerned about the Chicago
turf season being shorten next year Lets rest him until the first of the
year and then send him to K sirota down in Fla where they have turf
racing in Feb march April and than up to monmouth......he will be
competitive at Hialeah and monmouth.......and I am willing to be the
eyes and the ears for the flash here in New Jersey.....its a little too
early in the flash's career to give up on him (we gave him all of 7 turf
races with a top BEYER of 80 not bad). He has brought back checks in 5
of those 7 races.....so it's not that he is totally useless....with
proper care he WILL break his NW1.......he needs turf and I feel the
Florida-New Jersey circuit is made for him......NO "missing" turf
months....well thats it for Unsold.
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 16:54:43.58
From: IN%"biggestal2@webtv.net"
From: biggestal2@webtv.net
Subject: Itbaya [2751]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
Since we are a partnership, Cal I assume we will be
voting on this. My vote will be to wait until turf season is over for
Itbaya. Then obviously we have a descion to make.
Selling her outright at auction is one plan. Here are my thoughts. Lets
use Liane's advice and breed her to a nice Illinios stallion in the
spring or whenever Itsy's comes into heat....I am not too sure about
equine reproduction. (maybe one of the partners who doescould help me
mke my case)......and lets sell her at auction in foal......there is a
two fold advantage to this........We are putting one more magnificent TB
on this earth and secondly she bring a better price in
foal.........IMHO we will be giving back to racing another TB (after all
the short fields and the closing of AP they need all the help they can
get)...well those are my thoughts on Itsy
Allan
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 16:03:47.61
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2744] [2750]
---------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Cal Jestice wrote:
> If there's interest in breed-
> ing Itbaya or if the Mills still want to buy her, the fair thing
> to do is put her through the Keeneland horses of all ages sale in
> January. That way, the market will set a fair price and nobody
> should feel like we sold too high/low.
Is there any issue with a group of partners bidding on their own horse at
auction?
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 15:56:23.35
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Contest [2749]
---------------------------------------------------
TC,
My pick for the next vop winner is Nat.
The check streak goes to 16.
ap
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 15:28:59.41
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2744] [2748]
---------------------------------------------------
I also believe that later in the year we should make
>similar judgement calls on Dance Naturally and KLH.
>
>Cal
Well there goes 2/3's of my stable! With that sharp work of Nat's, don't
you think she may be over that splint problem?
Ideas anyone?
How much later in the year(assuming we want to move Nat?)
I was hoping for that track record from KLH. (like that quarter horse did
with the same operation). His heart is sure big enough!
ap
>
>
>On Oct 1, 9:47am, Dale E. Herman wrote:
>> Subject: Itbaya and Unsold [2725]
>> Well, the turf season is a few weeks from over here in Chicagoland and so
>> I think we've waited about as long as we can to discuss the future for
>> Itbaya and Unsold. My thoughts are:
>>
>> 1) I haven't heard any reason to expect improvement from either of these.
>> 2) Neither was able to pay their way at AP this year.
>> 3) Neither can pay their way at Fairgrounds.
>> 4) There isn't sufficient support to try the Florida circuit: Calder -
>> Rest or GP - Hialeah circuit this winter with another trainer.
>> 5) They can't compete at Keeneland or Churchill in the spring.
>> 6) The turf season next year is even shorter. Hawthorne doesn't open until
>> June 30, 1998.
>> 7) Purses *may* be higher at Hawthorne next year. Hawthorne *may* card
>> more low level turf races next year.
>> 8) It will be hard to pay the bills at Canterbury or River Downs.
>>
>> I don't want to put them on the farm for 7 months and wait for Hawthorne.
>> I think it's time for exit strategies. We could drop them into lower
>> level dirt races where someone may claim them, look for private sale
>> buyers, or put them in auction.
>>
>> Through the years we've joked a bit about breeding Itbaya ourselves, but I
>> doubt if there's interest in making that investment.
>>
>> I'd love to hear other's ideas on this subject.
>>
>> Dale H.
>>
>>-- End of excerpt from Dale E. Herman
>
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 15:16:08.89
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723] [2743] [2747]
---------------------------------------------------
At 02:28 PM 10/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>From the scoop:
>> ... Liane and I
>> talked about other jockies for Unsold and came up with a
>> list of Gomez, Guidry and Silva.
>>
>
>Great list. Gomez has turned down Unsold twice. Is there any
Just give me the word! I'll make him an offer he can't refuse.
a(the animal)p
>reason to believe we won't strike out?
>
>Tom C.
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 14:34:50.94
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2744]
---------------------------------------------------
Y'all,
I've been talking about this with Liane for the
past week and we covered it some more yesterday. Liane
and I have the same opinion as Dale. It would be in our
best interest to sell our two turf runners.
Itbaya is competitive at the lower levels at Arlington,
but she's six years old. It's likely her performance will decline
more as time goes on and with only four months of turf racing in
Chicago next year, it doesn't make sense to carry her until next
year to try. She did OK with Romero in one 25K race at the FG,
but there were not enough lower level turf races to justify another
trip this year. Itbaya handles the dirt well for 6f, so we could
try dropping her down to get claimed. If there's interest in breed-
ing Itbaya or if the Mills still want to buy her, the fair thing
to do is put her through the Keeneland horses of all ages sale in
January. That way, the market will set a fair price and nobody
should feel like we sold too high/low.
Unsold is doing well, but he's going to need some time off
soon. He's been in training since last September and that will be
14 straight months at the track once turf racing ends in Chicago.
However, I think Unsold's performances are about as good as they
are going to get. This puts him at struggling to break his N1X or
running at 14K open claiming. Unsold did not like the FG turf course
and I see no reason for that to change. Waiting until next summer
to try to break the N1X (if he still has the condition) isn't going
to be cost effective and we'll still need to wait for all the up and
coming 3yos to run through the condition. If we go for open claiming,
we're still likely to get some incarnation of Bantan or Sarner who
will be tough at a particular level.
I feel our best option is to sell Itbaya and Unsold at the
end of the year and look for an accomplished dirt runner to claim
at the FG. I also believe that later in the year we should make
similar judgement calls on Dance Naturally and KLH.
Cal
On Oct 1, 9:47am, Dale E. Herman wrote:
> Subject: Itbaya and Unsold [2725]
> Well, the turf season is a few weeks from over here in Chicagoland and so
> I think we've waited about as long as we can to discuss the future for
> Itbaya and Unsold. My thoughts are:
>
> 1) I haven't heard any reason to expect improvement from either of these.
> 2) Neither was able to pay their way at AP this year.
> 3) Neither can pay their way at Fairgrounds.
> 4) There isn't sufficient support to try the Florida circuit: Calder -
> Rest or GP - Hialeah circuit this winter with another trainer.
> 5) They can't compete at Keeneland or Churchill in the spring.
> 6) The turf season next year is even shorter. Hawthorne doesn't open until
> June 30, 1998.
> 7) Purses *may* be higher at Hawthorne next year. Hawthorne *may* card
> more low level turf races next year.
> 8) It will be hard to pay the bills at Canterbury or River Downs.
>
> I don't want to put them on the farm for 7 months and wait for Hawthorne.
> I think it's time for exit strategies. We could drop them into lower
> level dirt races where someone may claim them, look for private sale
> buyers, or put them in auction.
>
> Through the years we've joked a bit about breeding Itbaya ourselves, but I
> doubt if there's interest in making that investment.
>
> I'd love to hear other's ideas on this subject.
>
> Dale H.
>
>-- End of excerpt from Dale E. Herman
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 14:05:17.33
From: IN%"kgrace@injersey.com" "Ken Grace"
From: kgrace@injersey.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya [2742]
---------------------------------------------------
Partners,
It seems to me that Itbaya is running better recently than she has in
quite awhile - well enough to finally bring in some checks. Might she
fare better at FG this year? What does Liane think?
I do not see putting her on the farm until next year; I'd rather see her
run at some minor track until her form declines.
But, as one who was in favor of an exit several months ago, when her form
wasn't so good, I still support the exit idea now. Terry's breeding
proposal is a good one, but personally, I would be one of those who want
out. Yes, Terry, I would be willing to dissolve the partnership
somewhere in the $5K - $8K range.
Ken G.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 13:38:22.27
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: Some info of the FG [2733] [2741]
---------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, B.Brandt wrote:
> Claiming. tag is 20,00 3yo&up purse 15,000. I havn't any that low for F
> & M, but would think they are on the way.
Last year FG wrote lower level OPEN turf races than for those restricted
to F&M. If you wanted to run your filly for less than 25K on the turf,
you ran against the boys. Some did. I assume it will be the same way
this year. Liane said the Racing Secretary promised 17.5K races before
the meet last year, but he never wrote them.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 13:19:58.51
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2736] [2738] [2740]
---------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Dale E. Herman wrote:
> If Cal doesn't want to deal with the hassle/risk
> involved with a remote operation (can't blame him), I think it's time to
> move on.
To clarify, by "move on" I mean "sell Unsold".
Dale (I hate email) H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 12:30:00.72
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2736] [2738]
---------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Tom Channic wrote:
> Below are my thoughts re Unsold:
>
> > 2) Neither was able to pay their way at AP this year.
>
> Unsold has won $6,350 in purse money at Arlington to date. I don't have
> the exact expenses but they're probably about 9K for May through Sept.
> That's 2,650 in the hole. An N2L win in Oct would easily make this up.
> A N1X win would put him well over the top.
>
I'd love to cash the NW1X check. But if it doesn't happen this fall, I
don't want to wait around for July to try again.
Regarding finances, remember we have to pay for the entire year of
expenses, not just the five months at AP. I think it's unlikely that
Unsold will earn his keep running July through October next year.
If Cal has some interest in running Unsold anywhere other than Illinois,
it will surprise me. If Cal doesn't want to deal with the hassle/risk
involved with a remote operation (can't blame him), I think it's time to
move on.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 12:07:39.38
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya [2734] [2737]
---------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Terry Bjork wrote:
> If we could find a way to re-capitalize Itbaya at some agreed upon price as
> a broodmare, allow all the partners that want out to get out, and lower the
> ownership percentages of some of those of us who currently have an
> excessive percentage, I wouldn't mind trying out the breeding angle
> ourselves.
>
> We had the one estimate of $5000 at auction as a broodmare, and the
> offer of $8000 from Kate Mills. Would people dissolve this partnership
> at somewhere in that range?
I don't think anyone would pay more than $8,000 for Itbaya as a racer,
broodmare or pet - unless, of course, she wins that NW3X at AP (I'm not
holding my breath). Her record looks a little like Major Storm's
when we bought him for $7,500: never cleared NW3X, working down the
claiming ladder.
> Would we have enough interest in trying a breeding experiment?
I assume you're interested in keeping the foal. I think you posted an
estimate of the expenses for this once before. Could you repost them?
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 11:47:18.52
From: IN%"00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu" "Michael E. White"
From: 00mewhite@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Subject: Re: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2735]
---------------------------------------------------
re. Itbaya
I agree & disagree. Yes, she didn't do well at FG last year. But does
anyone one know how they'll be writing races the year? i.e. same levels
etc..
She's held her own this year at AP, no she hasn't won but she also
hasn't stunk up the place either. She's gotten checks to cover expenses.
Flordia - I don't know. What kind of races are written? What are the pars
and would she fit those pars?
If FG not a good option what about EvD, OP, Lonestar, or TuP?
Rest - for #-months, no. I'd rather see her run at TuP.
Breed - sounds fun but also a long and many cash calls.
Dirt/claiming - no.
Private sale - yes.
Mike
--
. , Michael E. White Senior VAX Systems Programmer
|\/| Ball State University / University Computing Services
/bb "\.
/ _,"\ Some assembly and C++ required. Batteries not included.
'\ Action figures sold separately.
~~ \
On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Dale E. Herman wrote:
> Well, the turf season is a few weeks from over here in Chicagoland and so
> I think we've waited about as long as we can to discuss the future for
> Itbaya and Unsold. My thoughts are:
>
> 1) I haven't heard any reason to expect improvement from either of these.
> 2) Neither was able to pay their way at AP this year.
> 3) Neither can pay their way at Fairgrounds.
> 4) There isn't sufficient support to try the Florida circuit: Calder -
> Rest or GP - Hialeah circuit this winter with another trainer.
> 5) They can't compete at Keeneland or Churchill in the spring.
> 6) The turf season next year is even shorter. Hawthorne doesn't open until
> June 30, 1998.
> 7) Purses *may* be higher at Hawthorne next year. Hawthorne *may* card
> more low level turf races next year.
> 8) It will be hard to pay the bills at Canterbury or River Downs.
>
> I don't want to put them on the farm for 7 months and wait for Hawthorne.
> I think it's time for exit strategies. We could drop them into lower
> level dirt races where someone may claim them, look for private sale
> buyers, or put them in auction.
>
> Through the years we've joked a bit about breeding Itbaya ourselves, but I
> doubt if there's interest in making that investment.
>
> I'd love to hear other's ideas on this subject.
>
> Dale H.
>
>
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 11:36:59.84
From: IN%"tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com"
From: tlbjor@searle.monsanto.com
Subject: Itbaya [2734]
---------------------------------------------------
If we could find a way to re-capitalize Itbaya at some agreed upon price as
a broodmare, allow all the partners that want out to get out, and lower the
ownership percentages of some of those of us who currently have an
excessive percentage, I wouldn't mind trying out the breeding angle
ourselves.
We had the one estimate of $5000 at auction as a broodmare, and the
offer of $8000 from Kate Mills. Would people dissolve this partnership
at somewhere in that range? Would we have enough interest in trying
a breeding experiment?
Terry
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 11:30:20.37
From: IN%"bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET" "B.Brandt"
From: bbrandt@COMMUNIQUE.NET
Subject: Some info of the FG [2733]
---------------------------------------------------
I was looking through the FG Condition book and saw a few races on the
turf. There are more, I am just passing allong the ones that seemed the
bottom of each type ie, claiming, allowance and starter allowance. Purse
structure is going to be good and climb some through the meet. This is
only a 12 day book so it is not the last word. i was talking to Mervin
Muniz yesterday and he asked what kind of races I would like to see more
of, he laughted when i said N4L, don't know why :-). He is a nice guy.
Here they are:
Starter Allowance. Usually 1 Mi. on the Turf. 3yo&up which have started
for 10,000 or less(also seen 15K and that purse is 15K ) Purse 13,500.
Claiming. tag is 20,00 3yo&up purse 15,000. I havn't any that low for F
& M, but would think they are on the way.
Allowance. I see purses from 24K up and there are some with conditions.
I did this quick and didn't look at every race in the book.
Brian
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 11:18:30.05
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2732]
---------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Bob Schaefer wrote:
> Let's do the right thing.... sell her to a breeder or someone who wants
> a pet.
With what I know now, selling her to a breeder would be my first option.
I'd like to see her somewhat sturdy genes stay in the thoroughbred gene
pool - even if it costs me a couple of bucks.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 10:26:17.63
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723] [2729]
---------------------------------------------------
On Oct 1, 10:24am, Mike Sasso-CMS040 wrote:
> Subject: RE: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723]
> >>Liane and I talked about other jockies for Unsold and came up with a
> list of Gomez, Guidry and Silva.<<
>
> Good list! Hopefully that's the preferred order too.
>
> BTW, is Gomez gonna race at HAW and SPT? Earlier in the AP meet he said that
> he was, but recently I've heard he's going south.
There's all kinds of rumors about what Garret is going
to do. He was planning on going to the FG to race over the
winter, but now the talk is Garret is moving to SoCal to ride.
He's got the talent to go to the big circuits, so my guess is
he won't be in Illinois in '98.
Cal
>
> -Mike Sasso-
> ________________________________________________________
> To: virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
> From: jestice@pcs.mot.com@INTERNET on Wed, Oct 1, 1997 9:32 AM
> Subject: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723]
>
> Y'all,
>
> A fine effort by Lady yesterday at Hawthorne. She
> was up on some hot fractions and held on well (for her) at
> the end. Had the race been only 6f, she might have gotten
> third. Fortunately, Mon Baiser is out at this level and
> there will be a little softer pace next time out. More
> details on the race in a separate post.
>
> Curt Bourque has packed up and left Chicago to race
> in Kentucky. Using reasoning that can only come from hours
> in a sauna following by a severe bout of flipping, Curt
> decided to split immediately after the first race on Saturday
> leaving five unfulfilled mounts for that day. Liane and I
> talked about other jockies for Unsold and came up with a
> list of Gomez, Guidry and Silva. Liane is pointing Unsold
> towards the 20N2L on the 10th at AP. He's doing fine off
> his last race and should be ready to go.
>
> Paparouna is still tired from her last race. She's
> taking a little longer to bounce back than Liane had hoped,
> plus she's carring a little heat in the leg that was sore
> earlier in the year. Liane is going easy on Paparouna and
> I wouldn't expect her to get another race at AP this year.
> Slow and steady is the plan for Paparouna.
>
> KLH is healthy, happy and galloping. His first
> breeze will be somtime this month.
>
> Dance Naturally worked five furlongs on Sunday
> with Ray up. Nat is feeling good and Liane and I talked
> about where to go with her. Liane wants to give Nat
> another shot on the turf before the season ends and is
> pointing her towards the 17N2L at Hawthorne on the 7th.
>
> Itbaya is looking and feeling great. Unfortunately,
> there isn't a good race for her. Liane is considering the
> N3X this weekend at AP. We'll likely catch Dress Shoes
> again, but if we can stay as close to her as last time,
> we might have a shot. Liane is trying to get a claiming
> race written, but it doesn't look promising.
>
> Cal
>-- End of excerpt from Mike Sasso-CMS040
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 10:21:31.07
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: RE: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723] [2728]
---------------------------------------------------
>>Liane and I talked about other jockies for Unsold and came up with a
list of Gomez, Guidry and Silva.<<
Good list! Hopefully that's the preferred order too.
BTW, is Gomez gonna race at HAW and SPT? Earlier in the AP meet he said that
he was, but recently I've heard he's going south.
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com@INTERNET on Wed, Oct 1, 1997 9:32 AM
Subject: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723]
Y'all,
A fine effort by Lady yesterday at Hawthorne. She
was up on some hot fractions and held on well (for her) at
the end. Had the race been only 6f, she might have gotten
third. Fortunately, Mon Baiser is out at this level and
there will be a little softer pace next time out. More
details on the race in a separate post.
Curt Bourque has packed up and left Chicago to race
in Kentucky. Using reasoning that can only come from hours
in a sauna following by a severe bout of flipping, Curt
decided to split immediately after the first race on Saturday
leaving five unfulfilled mounts for that day. Liane and I
talked about other jockies for Unsold and came up with a
list of Gomez, Guidry and Silva. Liane is pointing Unsold
towards the 20N2L on the 10th at AP. He's doing fine off
his last race and should be ready to go.
Paparouna is still tired from her last race. She's
taking a little longer to bounce back than Liane had hoped,
plus she's carring a little heat in the leg that was sore
earlier in the year. Liane is going easy on Paparouna and
I wouldn't expect her to get another race at AP this year.
Slow and steady is the plan for Paparouna.
KLH is healthy, happy and galloping. His first
breeze will be somtime this month.
Dance Naturally worked five furlongs on Sunday
with Ray up. Nat is feeling good and Liane and I talked
about where to go with her. Liane wants to give Nat
another shot on the turf before the season ends and is
pointing her towards the 17N2L at Hawthorne on the 7th.
Itbaya is looking and feeling great. Unfortunately,
there isn't a good race for her. Liane is considering the
N3X this weekend at AP. We'll likely catch Dress Shoes
again, but if we can stay as close to her as last time,
we might have a shot. Liane is trying to get a claiming
race written, but it doesn't look promising.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 10:17:58.11
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: Itbaya and Unsold [2725] [2727]
---------------------------------------------------
>I'd love to hear other's ideas on this subject.
I don't own a piece of UNSOLD, so these comments apply only
to ITBAYA.
I agree with Dale that when this turf season ends, there
won't be another race for her until next June. I doubt the
partners will agree to ship her anywhere other than FG, and,
as Dale said, she was not competitive at FG.
Furthermore, she's getting older, and I don't think that
her performance next season will improve at all. Therefore,
I think it's time to sell.
I don't like the idea of trying to get her claimed. I don't
think any other trainer will be able to make a proft from
her without resorting to inhumane tactics. I think we should
look for a private buyer or breeder. Perhaps Kate Mills is
still interested.
====================================================
Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care.
----------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
====================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 10:07:58.48
From: IN%"Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com" "Mike Sasso-CMS040"
From: Mike_Sasso-CMS040@email.mot.com
Subject: RE: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723] [2724] [2726]
---------------------------------------------------
>>Itsy simply *must* win a race at AP. I need to have one of
my horses in a Winner's Circle photo before AP closes for
good.<<
I've been thinking the same thing, Drew. I don't have an AP winner's circle
photo either and my last shot is with Unsold the day before it closes "for
good".
-Mike Sasso-
________________________________________________________
To: jestice@pcs.mot.com@INTERNET; virtual-owners@vop.org@INTERNET
From: drew@ctnet.com@INTERNET on Wed, Oct 1, 1997 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723] [2724]
> Itbaya is looking and feeling great. Unfortunately,
>there isn't a good race for her. Liane is considering the
>N3X this weekend at AP. We'll likely catch Dress Shoes
>again, but if we can stay as close to her as last time,
>we might have a shot. Liane is trying to get a claiming
>race written, but it doesn't look promising.
Itsy simply *must* win a race at AP. I need to have one of
my horses in a Winner's Circle photo before AP closes for
good.
====================================================
Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care.
----------------------------------------------------
Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
====================================================
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 09:50:26.73
From: IN%"herman@enteract.com" "Dale E. Herman"
From: herman@enteract.com
Subject: Itbaya and Unsold [2725]
---------------------------------------------------
Well, the turf season is a few weeks from over here in Chicagoland and so
I think we've waited about as long as we can to discuss the future for
Itbaya and Unsold. My thoughts are:
1) I haven't heard any reason to expect improvement from either of these.
2) Neither was able to pay their way at AP this year.
3) Neither can pay their way at Fairgrounds.
4) There isn't sufficient support to try the Florida circuit: Calder -
Rest or GP - Hialeah circuit this winter with another trainer.
5) They can't compete at Keeneland or Churchill in the spring.
6) The turf season next year is even shorter. Hawthorne doesn't open until
June 30, 1998.
7) Purses *may* be higher at Hawthorne next year. Hawthorne *may* card
more low level turf races next year.
8) It will be hard to pay the bills at Canterbury or River Downs.
I don't want to put them on the farm for 7 months and wait for Hawthorne.
I think it's time for exit strategies. We could drop them into lower
level dirt races where someone may claim them, look for private sale
buyers, or put them in auction.
Through the years we've joked a bit about breeding Itbaya ourselves, but I
doubt if there's interest in making that investment.
I'd love to hear other's ideas on this subject.
Dale H.
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 09:18:49.32
From: IN%"drew@ctnet.com" "Drew"
From: drew@ctnet.com
Subject: Re: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723] [2724]
---------------------------------------------------
> Itbaya is looking and feeling great. Unfortunately,
>there isn't a good race for her. Liane is considering the
>N3X this weekend at AP. We'll likely catch Dress Shoes
>again, but if we can stay as close to her as last time,
>we might have a shot. Liane is trying to get a claiming
>race written, but it doesn't look promising.
Itsy simply *must* win a race at AP. I need to have one of
my horses in a Winner's Circle photo before AP closes for
good.
====================================================
Am I ignorant or merely apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care.
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Drew Ivan drew@ctnet.com
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VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 09:09:59.62
From: IN%"jestice@pcs.mot.com"
From: jestice@pcs.mot.com
Subject: The Scoop: 10/1/97 [2723]
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Y'all,
A fine effort by Lady yesterday at Hawthorne. She
was up on some hot fractions and held on well (for her) at
the end. Had the race been only 6f, she might have gotten
third. Fortunately, Mon Baiser is out at this level and
there will be a little softer pace next time out. More
details on the race in a separate post.
Curt Bourque has packed up and left Chicago to race
in Kentucky. Using reasoning that can only come from hours
in a sauna following by a severe bout of flipping, Curt
decided to split immediately after the first race on Saturday
leaving five unfulfilled mounts for that day. Liane and I
talked about other jockies for Unsold and came up with a
list of Gomez, Guidry and Silva. Liane is pointing Unsold
towards the 20N2L on the 10th at AP. He's doing fine off
his last race and should be ready to go.
Paparouna is still tired from her last race. She's
taking a little longer to bounce back than Liane had hoped,
plus she's carring a little heat in the leg that was sore
earlier in the year. Liane is going easy on Paparouna and
I wouldn't expect her to get another race at AP this year.
Slow and steady is the plan for Paparouna.
KLH is healthy, happy and galloping. His first
breeze will be somtime this month.
Dance Naturally worked five furlongs on Sunday
with Ray up. Nat is feeling good and Liane and I talked
about where to go with her. Liane wants to give Nat
another shot on the turf before the season ends and is
pointing her towards the 17N2L at Hawthorne on the 7th.
Itbaya is looking and feeling great. Unfortunately,
there isn't a good race for her. Liane is considering the
N3X this weekend at AP. We'll likely catch Dress Shoes
again, but if we can stay as close to her as last time,
we might have a shot. Liane is trying to get a claiming
race written, but it doesn't look promising.
Cal
VOP MAIL PAGE
1-OCT-1997 07:45:57.81
From: IN%"mikep@ameritech.net"
From: mikep@ameritech.net
Subject: Re: Nats work on Sunday [2715] [2721]
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Al,
Thanks for the work info!
Why do we have to wait til tue. to find out about a work on sunday??????????
At this rate we should use snail mail for our list. Might be faster!
ap
At 06:01 PM 9/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Partners,
> Me being a nudge and all....the first thing I do is check
>on VOP horse workout list
>when I get my form......I am looking for Nat or Itsy as being the most
>likely canidates for a work.....so I see sunday at AP and I start
>checking.....wait I see Dance Naturally worked 5f........OK.........I
>figure maybe 103 and change....I look at the time that that clockers
>caught her in 100.4 breezing.....A NEAR BULLET WORK......whats gotten
>into Nat
>2nd best work of 33.....1/5 of a second off the bullet.........in the
>name of all things holy...well I just wanted to pass along the good
>news.....I know there is a certain someone (I aint mentioning anyone's
>name, ED) who will be glad to hear about it.......
> Allan
>
>